I agree fully. I'd also like to further emphasize the point that zanieladie makes here in saying thats some will argue that "You aren't a TRUE American anyways if you are not of American Indian descent" I don't even take that as a valid argument. One becomes a "TRUE American" the day they are granted citizenship. If you do not go through the steps to gain your citizenship, then you're not a citizen! its that simple! Smuggling across here without notifying the Country of your presence grants you the benefits of living in America while at the same time not having any of the duties or responsibilities an American citizen has.
I agree fully. I'd also like to further emphasize the point that zanieladie makes here in saying thats some will argue that "You aren't a TRUE American anyways if you are not of American Indian descent" I don't even take that as a valid argument. One becomes a "TRUE American" the day they are granted citizenship. If you do not go through the steps to gain your citizenship, then you're not a citizen! its that simple! Smuggling across here without notifying the Country of your presence grants you the benefits of living in America while at the same time not having any of the duties or responsibilities an American citizen has.
My children's elementary school in Hillsboro Oregon had roughly 50% attendance yesterday. The school, and town, were so quiet.
I have two solutions to this illegal immigration problem.
1. We build our own version of the Great Wall
2. We incorporate our own version of the DMZ at the border
If you get past all that with all your limbs in tact, you're automatically granted a green card.
1. We build our own version of the Great Wall
2. We incorporate our own version of the DMZ at the border
If you get past all that with all your limbs in tact, you're automatically granted a green card.
moshquerade
No Lifer
- Nov 1, 2001
- 61,504
- 12
- 56
i agree.
this is really all being overdone... losing a day's pay and being truant at school when the issue isn't immigration. the issue is illegal immigration. others are in line in front of you - so don't crowd. fall in and take your place.
Circlenaut
Platinum Member
- Mar 22, 2001
- 2,175
- 5
- 81
Nailed it. Please someone answer this. This issue is an economic one, there is a large demand in this country for service jobs but not enough people to fill them and with the baby boom generation coming to age, how will we pay and service them?
It's funny how most of you are just mindlessly labeling them as a problem without providing a realistic solution. You think deporting them all is realistic? SOMETHING has to be done. And I seem to recall someone saying that the current system is flawed because of arbitrary quotas which don't make economic sense. Perhaps a better system would be a dynamic one seperate from congress (maybe controlled by USCIS and hte labor department) which changes the quotas according to supply and demand. Maybe we could have a points system like other countries have and let anyone in which satisfy the system (degree, needed job, speakers english, something like canada's). C'mon people IDEAS!
P.S. This topic was about Protest experiance how did it turn into a P&N flamefest?
I didn't see any of the effects, since I was camping on the slopes of Mt. Rainier and far away from civilization 
I have mixed feelings on the issue, though, and for now I'm trying to stay out of the discussion, except to shake my head at the idiotic and flawed arguments that come up from time to time on both sides.
I have mixed feelings on the issue, though, and for now I'm trying to stay out of the discussion, except to shake my head at the idiotic and flawed arguments that come up from time to time on both sides.
I have no idea, and I don't care. There's already a huge Hispanic migrant worker population in NC, then to top it off you constantly hear how illegals get into drunk (and even not drunk, just stupid) driving accidents injuring, killing, or at the least costing lots of money to the people who are the victims of the these accidents as a lot of those reports on the news are of uninsured illegals. Causes of the illegal's accidents as reported on news: not understanding traffic laws, unsafe vehicles, drunk, etc.
Actually it does. I usually use the speeding analogy to make it easy for the general public to understand. I know you're smart so I'll cut the bullsh!t, there are different levels of severity within in a crime. The punishment doesn't fit the crime if this bill where to take affect.
If you think it does, then I suggest the very same thing Mill did, there is a underlying agenda against the race of these people. Simple as that.
Cdubneeddeal
Diamond Member
- Oct 22, 2003
- 7,473
- 3
- 81
Everyone has their own views and opinions and no-one in here should treat this topic as a debate. State your opinon and move on.
My opinion this is new law is justified. Our health care costs have gone up due to a part of illegal immigration. Our gas prices, food, crime, you name it it has a part in it. I'm sure not a large part as you all might portray me as saying but some part, you would admit.
Now, if people are really willing to become an American citizen, they would do it legally. My mother moved here from the Phillipines back in the 70's and did everything legally. Went through all the processes and such. She didn't marry my father for quite some time after she arrived here in the states so that would rule out marry and become a citizen.
Not a strong opinion as it's very late and I need to get up early. So that's it. Gnight.
My opinion this is new law is justified. Our health care costs have gone up due to a part of illegal immigration. Our gas prices, food, crime, you name it it has a part in it. I'm sure not a large part as you all might portray me as saying but some part, you would admit.
Now, if people are really willing to become an American citizen, they would do it legally. My mother moved here from the Phillipines back in the 70's and did everything legally. Went through all the processes and such. She didn't marry my father for quite some time after she arrived here in the states so that would rule out marry and become a citizen.
Not a strong opinion as it's very late and I need to get up early. So that's it. Gnight.
Svnla
Lifer
- Nov 10, 2003
- 17,986
- 1,388
- 126
OP, very well written post.
As a first generation legal immigrant myself, I have mixed feeling about what going on in the last month or so about immigration.
I understand and sympathy of why people south of the border are coming here. I have been there and done that. We all want opportunities to better ourselves and families.
I just have one comment. Why people think they have the right to jump ahead of the long line of legal immigration process just because they live right next to the US? Other people from other continents have to wait for years, not year, but YEARS, to get here legally. It is a very hard and time consuming process. It took us over 10 years just to get my sisters here and we are not done yet.
I don't think there will be a quick and easy solution for this. I am leaning on the "work visa/guest worker" program. You are here now, so let learn English, work hard, stay out of trouble, learn US rules and regulation, pay back taxes/fines, get in the long line to become citizen. You have to earn your right to become citizen as everyone else. NO EXCEPTIONS and no amnesty/furlough.
We also need to look at the need for highly skill/well to do immigrants. How about a increasing quota for well heel/highly educate people? Let them come to the US, open/invest businesses and hire local legal US citizens. After a period of, let say, 5 to 10 years, they will be grant US citizens AFTER they went thought all of the requirements I mentioned above.
In the other hand, I think we HAVE TO control our borders. We can't pretend everything is ok and let our border wide open the way it is now. It is insane.
As a first generation legal immigrant myself, I have mixed feeling about what going on in the last month or so about immigration.
I understand and sympathy of why people south of the border are coming here. I have been there and done that. We all want opportunities to better ourselves and families.
I just have one comment. Why people think they have the right to jump ahead of the long line of legal immigration process just because they live right next to the US? Other people from other continents have to wait for years, not year, but YEARS, to get here legally. It is a very hard and time consuming process. It took us over 10 years just to get my sisters here and we are not done yet.
I don't think there will be a quick and easy solution for this. I am leaning on the "work visa/guest worker" program. You are here now, so let learn English, work hard, stay out of trouble, learn US rules and regulation, pay back taxes/fines, get in the long line to become citizen. You have to earn your right to become citizen as everyone else. NO EXCEPTIONS and no amnesty/furlough.
We also need to look at the need for highly skill/well to do immigrants. How about a increasing quota for well heel/highly educate people? Let them come to the US, open/invest businesses and hire local legal US citizens. After a period of, let say, 5 to 10 years, they will be grant US citizens AFTER they went thought all of the requirements I mentioned above.
In the other hand, I think we HAVE TO control our borders. We can't pretend everything is ok and let our border wide open the way it is now. It is insane.
Who the hell is the OP? Joined in march.. 19 posts.. starts a political thread in Off-topic and gets a sticky? WTF.
I don't think alot of people can appreciate how difficult it is to become a legal citizen of the states. My best friend moved to Phoenix, AZ from Canada due to financial reasons when he was about 9 years old. He still hasn't got his green card yet and he just turned 20.
His family has incurred SIGNIFICANT expense to keep their application going, each year they have to return to Vancouver to visit the American Consulate to check in with them, that flight alone costs them $2000 dollars, and they moved down there because they were financially strained, though that is not the case now.
He did not qualify for any scholarships because he was not an american citizen when his college applications were reviewed, and he cannot legally get a job there as the VISA that his parents came in on only allows them to work. So my friend has to return to Vancouver to work each summer.
The system itself is broken, and that just doesn't include the United States, but Canada as well. We have boatloads of poor assed Chinese, who we have to feed, and shelter A few years ago a public audit was done and it said that it was costing the province $100 dollars a day to keep these people in lockup. These people are scum, but there is no way that the average person could manage to live in the states for 12 years without a good job and be expected to survive long enough to get a green card.
Thankfully enough my friends grandmother and step grandfather are quite wealthy down there.
The system is broken, the people are scum for coming here illegally, but there is no chance to come here legally. It's just like the health system, so damaged we can't possible concieve how to properly fix it.
Cheers.
His family has incurred SIGNIFICANT expense to keep their application going, each year they have to return to Vancouver to visit the American Consulate to check in with them, that flight alone costs them $2000 dollars, and they moved down there because they were financially strained, though that is not the case now.
He did not qualify for any scholarships because he was not an american citizen when his college applications were reviewed, and he cannot legally get a job there as the VISA that his parents came in on only allows them to work. So my friend has to return to Vancouver to work each summer.
The system itself is broken, and that just doesn't include the United States, but Canada as well. We have boatloads of poor assed Chinese, who we have to feed, and shelter A few years ago a public audit was done and it said that it was costing the province $100 dollars a day to keep these people in lockup. These people are scum, but there is no way that the average person could manage to live in the states for 12 years without a good job and be expected to survive long enough to get a green card.
Thankfully enough my friends grandmother and step grandfather are quite wealthy down there.
The system is broken, the people are scum for coming here illegally, but there is no chance to come here legally. It's just like the health system, so damaged we can't possible concieve how to properly fix it.
Cheers.
WHO CARES how hard it is. Does this legalize illegal immigration? I don't get what you guys are smoking all the time. You blame the immigration system of this country in attempts to justify illegal immigration. Just like when the RIAA and MPAA nab you for downloading, you complain the movie industry and the music industry is a wreck and it's stupid that we sell CDs for $20 and DVDs for $25. Ok so what? If that is the problem, work to resolve it, but don't go out doing something that is illegal and then b!tch when you get caught.
It is not the duty of the United States to be the shelter for everyone in this world. If people don't like life in Mexico, Canada, China, whatever, try to come over legally. If you come over illegally.. guess what? We have every right to deport you.
I know it's sad we have a lot of illegal immigrants in this country and it's hard to take care of them all. But guess what? They're illegals.
We have more legal citizens and immigrants than illegal immigrants, and because this nation is built on serving the majority while respecting the ideas of the minority, we work to promote legal immigration, but at the same time we need to fix the problems of illegal immigration.
So honestly, all these rallies? Retarded. FVCKED UP.
Well said. No one likes the bully who cuts in line. Everyone migrated to this country at some point (even the American Indians ancestory eventually reaches back to Asia). I work with a Russian who has had a work visa for 6 years now. He thinks the wait is long, but he does everything legally. I respect that.
erikistired
Diamond Member
- Sep 27, 2000
- 9,739
- 0
- 0
Amused
Elite Member
- Apr 14, 2001
- 57,347
- 19,512
- 146
That is some eye opening sh!t right there.
That figures, though. Hard core leftist organizations love this kind of crap.
Makes me laugh though. Let me see, Mexicans are leaving Mexico in droves because it sucks there. Yet they want to return CA, AZ, NM and TX to Mexico?
WHY??? Why would you leave a country because it sucks, and want to turn your new nation into the same thing you just left???
It boggles the mind.
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 174
- 106
I appreciate your spending the time to type this up. I must however confess that I don't have time now to read it all in depth. Perhaps I can come back after work and do so.
I am surprised to hear that your father is an illegal immigrant. Given the circumstanes, he should have been permitted to enter legally. OK, now I see that he is legal, fine.
I have lived & worked in several foreign countries, always as a "legal" immigrant. Even so, I would have never dared exhibit the arrogance to march in their country and tell them what to do, to claim I had some special rights. Or try to claim government benefits such as free medical care, education or welfare etc. If I didn't like the rules, I could always opt to leave. IMHO, same goes these people, whether they are from Mexico or Central/South America-where ever.
I do not believe these people should be charged as "felons", merely deported if caught. Which is what I would have faced in the countries I lived in had I overstayed my visa etc. Seemed fair treatment towards me at the time, so I find it fair for them here.
I do not support hunting down illegal aliens for deportation. If they get into trouble and are discovered, fine deport them.
I do believe a wall of sort is necessary. No matter if immigation reform makes it super easy to legally come here, or if it remains very difficult to come here. We must have control. My analogy is that of a store - you can make the prices high (hard to get here legally) or make the prices low (easy to get here). Either way you have security and lock the doors at night, otherwise people will do what they want and there will be abuses.
It will also help stop the real criminals (coyotes) from helping people cross - in spite of how unsafe it is. Too many have died. This must stop.
Yes, people will try to subvert the wall (particularly if there is no reform to make it easy to get here), maybe with tunnels -whatever. But don't we lock the doors to our houses or cars even though they can break in through the window? There is no "perfect" security, be it border, house or car. But we must try to deter. Otherwise I see no need for immigration reform. With an open border just cross as you please.
Finally, I am appalled at those who marched with other countries flags (how arrogant & insulting) and banners or placards with some message about their rights or their intentions to reclaim this land for their own country.
As far as treating other people like you wish to be treated - it goes both ways. I have followed the rules and expect these people to also. Moreover, I have read portions of the Mexican Constitution - what these specific people are asking for here, I am denied in Mexico. Heck, I'm even denied free government benefits here in my own country!
BTW: When I was in these other countries I was expected to speak their language, and did my best to learn Spanish, French & German. They should speak English here (like I had to speak Spanish when visiting Mexico too).
EDIT: BTW, my wife is not a US citizen, but a legal immigrant (Green Card and she got it on her own, not do to our marriage etc). She is strongly opposed to the protest/rallies and the demands these people are making.
Fern
I am surprised to hear that your father is an illegal immigrant. Given the circumstanes, he should have been permitted to enter legally. OK, now I see that he is legal, fine.
I have lived & worked in several foreign countries, always as a "legal" immigrant. Even so, I would have never dared exhibit the arrogance to march in their country and tell them what to do, to claim I had some special rights. Or try to claim government benefits such as free medical care, education or welfare etc. If I didn't like the rules, I could always opt to leave. IMHO, same goes these people, whether they are from Mexico or Central/South America-where ever.
I do not believe these people should be charged as "felons", merely deported if caught. Which is what I would have faced in the countries I lived in had I overstayed my visa etc. Seemed fair treatment towards me at the time, so I find it fair for them here.
I do not support hunting down illegal aliens for deportation. If they get into trouble and are discovered, fine deport them.
I do believe a wall of sort is necessary. No matter if immigation reform makes it super easy to legally come here, or if it remains very difficult to come here. We must have control. My analogy is that of a store - you can make the prices high (hard to get here legally) or make the prices low (easy to get here). Either way you have security and lock the doors at night, otherwise people will do what they want and there will be abuses.
It will also help stop the real criminals (coyotes) from helping people cross - in spite of how unsafe it is. Too many have died. This must stop.
Yes, people will try to subvert the wall (particularly if there is no reform to make it easy to get here), maybe with tunnels -whatever. But don't we lock the doors to our houses or cars even though they can break in through the window? There is no "perfect" security, be it border, house or car. But we must try to deter. Otherwise I see no need for immigration reform. With an open border just cross as you please.
Finally, I am appalled at those who marched with other countries flags (how arrogant & insulting) and banners or placards with some message about their rights or their intentions to reclaim this land for their own country.
As far as treating other people like you wish to be treated - it goes both ways. I have followed the rules and expect these people to also. Moreover, I have read portions of the Mexican Constitution - what these specific people are asking for here, I am denied in Mexico. Heck, I'm even denied free government benefits here in my own country!
BTW: When I was in these other countries I was expected to speak their language, and did my best to learn Spanish, French & German. They should speak English here (like I had to speak Spanish when visiting Mexico too).
EDIT: BTW, my wife is not a US citizen, but a legal immigrant (Green Card and she got it on her own, not do to our marriage etc). She is strongly opposed to the protest/rallies and the demands these people are making.
Fern
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