CNN Has more sympathy for the rapists.

[nehalem256]

There's a flip side to this though... what if it were your son or your younger brother going away for fingering (was that all they did in this case? I honestly don't know, someone enlighten me) a drunk passed out girl while he himself was drunk, and was going to be labeled a sex offender for the rest of his existence?

That is all I have found:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...nd-guilty-of-raping-drunken-16-year-old-girl/

Instead, the teens were granted immunity to testify, and their accounts helped incriminate the defendants. They said the girl was so drunk she didn’t seem to know what was happening to her and confirmed she was digitally penetrated in a car and later on a basement floor.

Which begs the question imagine instead of headlines like

"Rapists finally face justice" you had

"Teen boys lives ruined over fingering drunk girl".

And of course I don't think anyone seriously believes if that if some girls had been caught snapping pics with their hands around a passed out boys penis that they would be called rapists.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

That is all I have found:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...nd-guilty-of-raping-drunken-16-year-old-girl/


Which begs the question imagine instead of headlines like

"Rapists finally face justice" you had

"Teen boys lives ruined over fingering drunk girl".

And of course I don't think anyone seriously believes if that if some girls had been caught snapping pics with their hands around a passed out boys penis that they would be called rapists.

The fact it was done without her permission is rape.....period.

The rest of the BS you're trying sell is just that BS!!!!

 

[SheHateMe]

That is all I have found:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...nd-guilty-of-raping-drunken-16-year-old-girl/


Which begs the question imagine instead of headlines like

"Rapists finally face justice" you had

"Teen boys lives ruined over fingering drunk girl".

And of course I don't think anyone seriously believes if that if some girls had been caught snapping pics with their hands around a passed out boys penis that they would be called rapists.

You also left out the part where they ejaculated on her and took photos, they also joked about sodomizing her.

They're both pieces of shit and they deserve to burn. Can't believe the fans and the coaches tried to sweep this under the rug though.

 

[nehalem256]

The fact it was done without her permission is rape.....period.

The rest of the BS you're trying sell is just that BS!!!!

So you think if some girls wrapped their hands around the penis of a passed out guy they would be called rapists?

Yes or No?

You also left out the part where they ejaculated on her and took photos, they also joked about sodomizing her.

That is not in the article. Do you have a source for that?

 

[Retro Rob]

The fact it was done without her permission is rape.....period.

The rest of the BS you're trying sell is just that BS!!!!

It is rape.

Boy, we have some sicko idiots in this world...

 

[SheHateMe]

That is not in the article. Do you have a source for that?

She said an increasingly frantic Mr. Mays repeatedly sent her text messages the next day, pleading with her not to press charges and saying that he feared his football career would be hurt.

“He was just, like, freaking out,” the girl testified Saturday. “He kept asking, ‘Are you going to tell the police?’ He was trying to get me not to tell anyone.”

In one text message, she said, Mr. Mays admitted taking the picture of her naked in the basement but said that he did not know how the photograph had been circulated. He said the picture showed his semen on top of her, the result of what he said had been a consensual sexual act.

At one point, Mr. Mays, who maintained that he had taken care of the girl while she was drunk, appeared to grow increasingly frustrated that she refused to reassure him. He told her in a text message, “I’ll just never do anything nice for you again.”

Later, in the final series of text messages they ever exchanged, Mr. Mays told her, “I’m about to get kicked off my football team.”

The girl replied: “The more you bring up football, the more pissed I get, because that’s like all you care about.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/17/us/rape-trial-in-steubenville-ohio.html

Later, Cole said he left but continued to receive text messages about the alleged assault. One, he said, had a naked picture of the victim with what appeared to be semen on her.

Cole texted Mays: “Seriously, dude, don’t (expletive) rape her.”

Later, he texted: “Seriously, Trent, you can’t be doing that. Is that your (expletive) semen on her stomach?”

Mays replied: “Haha. Yeah.”

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/03/15/suspects-teammates-testify-in-steubenville-rape-trial/



We all know you hate women, but your attempt to yet again turn this around on the female is interesting :<

 

[Geosurface]

Can someone answer nehalem's question though?

It's a good one... and I'll add to it a bit to make it match up better with what happened here.

Teenaged boy gets hammered to the point of being passed out at party, group of teen girls is laughing, taking pictures of him, two of them are posing with his dick in their hands, hell... one girl even puts it in her mouth. They touch themselves and then put the same fingers on his nose, wipe across his face etc and are cracking up, laughing their asses off, etc... (sorry to get graphic but it's necessary to illustrate the point here)

In any universe are they charged with rape?

In any dimension are they registered sex offenders for the rest of their lives?

Within all the facets of the multiverse is there a single version of reality where they spend years in a detention facility of any kind?

Answer the question, please.

We all know you hate women, but your attempt to yet again turn this around on the female is interesting :<

Even if it's true that he hates women (which I seriously doubt) that doesn't stop him from being a vessel which brings to you an interesting thought experiment that is worth you challenging yourself with... does it?

I certainly don't hate women, in the slightest. Yet, I am at least sympathetic to asking the same questions about this that he is.

 

[TerryMathews]

Can someone answer nehalem's question though?

It's a good one... and I'll add to it a bit to make it match up better with what happened here.

Teenaged boy gets hammered to the point of being passed out at party, group of teen girls is laughing, taking pictures of him, two of them are posing with his dick in their hands, hell... one girl even puts it in her mouth. They touch themselves and then put the same fingers on his nose, wipe across his face etc and are cracking up, laughing their asses off, etc... (sorry to get graphic but it's necessary to illustrate the point here)

In any universe are they charged with rape?

In any dimension are they registered sex offenders for the rest of their lives?

Within all the facets of the multiverse is there a single version of reality where they spend years in a detention facility of any kind?

Answer the question, please.



Even if it's true that he hates women (which I seriously doubt) that doesn't stop him from being a vessel which brings to you an interesting thought experiment that is worth you challenging yourself with... does it?

I certainly don't hate women, in the slightest. Yet, I am at least sympathetic to asking the same questions about this that he is.

They should be.

 

[SheHateMe]

I love that hypothetical situation you cooked up. Now, if you could just find a case where a bunch of girls sexually assaulted an incapacitated boy and posted photos of it on the net.


Of course they would be prosecuted. Sexual Assault is sexual assault. Rape is rape.

 

[lotus503]

Can someone answer nehalem's question though?

It's a good one... and I'll add to it a bit to make it match up better with what happened here.

Teenaged boy gets hammered to the point of being passed out at party, group of teen girls is laughing, taking pictures of him, two of them are posing with his dick in their hands, hell... one girl even puts it in her mouth. They touch themselves and then put the same fingers on his nose, wipe across his face etc and are cracking up, laughing their asses off, etc... (sorry to get graphic but it's necessary to illustrate the point here)

In any universe are they charged with rape?

In any dimension are they registered sex offenders for the rest of their lives?

Within all the facets of the multiverse is there a single version of reality where they spend years in a detention facility of any kind?

Answer the question, please.



Even if it's true that he hates women (which I seriously doubt) that doesn't stop him from being a vessel which brings to you an interesting thought experiment that is worth you challenging yourself with... does it?

I certainly don't hate women, in the slightest. Yet, I am at least sympathetic to asking the same questions about this that he is.

Yes, if the boy reports it to police as sexual assault, it's sexual assault.

The gender doesn't make one bit of fucking difference the actions are what define it.

 

[Geosurface]

They should be.

Are you sure?

Do you feel that those hypothetical teen girls in my thought exercise were going to be a persistent menace to society for the rest of their lives? That ruining their futures because they got caught up in peer pressure stupid high-jinx while they were only marginally less plastered than the hypothetical boy is somehow doing something positive for society?

I'm not so sure... mind you, I am not firmly settled on my view of this. I'm trying to think this through... I have grave doubts about what most people seem to assume on this though.

Can we all at least agree that there is an awful lot of distance between what happened to this girl and someone getting grabbed as they walk to their car and full on raped?

Yes, if the boy reports it to police as sexual assault, it's sexual assault.

The gender doesn't make one bit of fucking difference the actions are what define it.

In never-has-existed never-will-exist Utopialand, or reality?

Because there are HUGENORMOUS gaps in penalties given to men vs. women for the same crimes.

 

[SheHateMe]

ruining their futures because they got caught up in peer pressure

I need a fucking drink. D:

Can we all at least agree that there is an awful lot of distance between what happened to this girl and someone getting grabbed as they walk to their car and full on raped?

Full on rape. Not the same as half on rape.

 

[lotus503]

Are you sure?

Do you feel that those hypothetical teen girls in my thought exercise were going to be a persistent menace to society for the rest of their lives? That ruining their futures because they got caught up in peer pressure stupid high-jinx while they were only marginally less plastered than the hypothetical boy is somehow doing something positive for society?

I'm not so sure... mind you, I am not firmly settled on my view of this. I'm trying to think this through... I have grave doubts about what most people seem to assume on this though.

Can we all at least agree that there is an awful lot of distance between what happened to this girl and someone getting grabbed as they walk to their car and full on raped?

Is there are difference sure, it's likely why they didn't get harsher sentences.

If they didn't want to be branded sex offenders they shouldn't have committed sexual assault.

 

[SheHateMe]

Is there are difference sure, it's likely why they didn't get harsher sentences.

If they didn't want to be branded sex offenders they shouldn't have committed sexual assault.

Ohhh, Lotus, but they were such good Athletes..

 

[lotus503]

Ohhh, Lotus, but they were such good Athletes..

Good athletes despicable pieces of shit for human beings.

Had that been my daughter they may have disappeared vs. a couple years in juvi detention.

 

[Geosurface]

Is there are difference sure, it's likely why they didn't get harsher sentences.

If they didn't want to be branded sex offenders they shouldn't have committed sexual assault.

I agree and as I said earlier, I cannot really identify with these guys at all... their teenage life is starkly different from what mine was, and I come from a completely different school of behavior from them (or from her)

I'm still not all that informed on this case, so there may be some hidden HORRIBLE SHIT that they did or said which might sour me on them even more. But trust me, I'm already plenty sour on them and what they did.

I'm more debating this because I want us to challenge some of our gender double standards and assumptions... I think it's a more interesting discussion that way. I did something to myself within the last several months where I tripped a switch in my brain and now I habitually, instinctively lock onto the contrarion view point on things, most of the time.

That's not to imply disingenuousness of any sort, just an admission of a compulsion or thought trend/pattern perhaps.

Not attempting to rile anyone up or upset anyone... I just think it's healthy to question these things, and not just take the easy route of "GET A ROPE!" y'know what I mean?

If I could flip the switch back the other way in my mind, I probably would.

 

[SheHateMe]

"I'm still not all that informed on this case, so there may be some hidden HORRIBLE SHIT that they did or said which might sour me on them even more. But trust me, I'm already plenty sour on them and what they did."

...yet you're sitting here pretending like they were unfairly railroaded.



Wow.

 

[lotus503]

I agree and as I said earlier, I cannot really identify with these guys at all... their teenage life is starkly different from what mine was, and I come from a completely different school of behavior from them (or from her)

I'm still not all that informed on this case, so there may be some hidden HORRIBLE SHIT that they did or said which might sour me on them even more. But trust me, I'm already plenty sour on them and what they did.

I'm more debating this because I want us to challenge some of our gender double standards and assumptions... I think it's a more interesting discussion that way. I did something to myself within the last several months where I tripped a switch in my brain and now I habitually, instinctively lock onto the contrarion view point on things, most of the time.

That's not to imply disingenuousness of any sort, just an admission of a compulsion or thought trend/pattern perhaps.

Not attempting to rile anyone up or upset anyone... I just think it's healthy to question these things, and not just take the easy route of "GET A ROPE!" y'know what I mean?

If I could flip the switch back the other way in my mind, I probably would.

I think it's good to consider all sides of situation but I'm pretty caught up on this case and it's obviously not only did they assault het but everything they did after was terrible too.

 

[Geosurface]

...yet you're sitting here pretending like they were unfairly railroaded.

Wow.

Not really, I'm more speaking in generalities and using this case as an intellectual springboard for that.

 

[SheHateMe]

Not really, I'm more speaking in generalities and using this case as an intellectual springboard for that.

But you just admitted that you haven't really followed the case...but you are trying to vouch for these boys. You described what they did as falling victim to "peer pressure".

Generally speaking, you feel that they are being treated unfairly, because had they been girls and the victim a male..the outcome would have been different.

So yea...yes really. That's exactly what you're doing. You're apologizing for their behavior and trying to present some intellectual argument about how this isn't fair and how it relates to gender and double standards.

 

[Geosurface]

But you just admitted that you haven't really followed the case...but you are trying to vouch for these boys. You described what they did as falling victim to "peer pressure".

Generally speaking, you feel that they are being treated unfairly, because had they been girls and the victim a male..the outcome would have been different.

So yea...yes really. That's exactly what you're doing. You're apologizing for their behavior and trying to present some intellectual argument about how this isn't fair and how it relates to gender and double standards.

That was wording I chose when talking about the hypothetical girls... but would I apply it equally to these boys? Honestly I don't know, I'm still developing my opinion on what happened here.

I don't see a contradiction in thinking that they are pieces of shit who did something awful, but at the same time thinking what's happening to their lives is tragic. Do you?

And are you interested in engaging in some of these thought exercises and challenging yourself, or just pointing at me and screaming "heretic!" ?

 

[SheHateMe]

I don't see a contradiction in thinking that they are pieces of shit who did something awful, but at the same time thinking what's happening to their lives is tragic. Do you?

And are you interested in engaging in some of these thought exercises and challenging yourself, or just pointing at me and screaming "heretic!" ?

1) What is happening to their lives tragic? No, not at all. This is justice.

2) I am not interested in your "thought exercises" if you're going to be an apologist for two rapists.

This wouldn't happen to be the same thought exercise you were subjecting the forum to with your "80%+ of blacks are criminals" theory, is it?

Cause that worked out so well for you before.

 

[Geosurface]

1) What is happening to their lives tragic? No, not at all. This is justice.

2) I am not interested in your "thought exercises" if you're going to be an apologist for two rapists.

This wouldn't happen to be the same thought exercise you were subjecting the forum to with your "80%+ of blacks are criminals" theory, is it?

Cause that worked out so well for you before.

I get it, you aren't interested in viewing this as a complex case at all... that's fine.

I'll just say though, this seems to me to be fairly distant from some sort of Jodi Foster in "The Accused" type of situation. It's considerably greyer than that, IMO.

Perhaps my opinion will change as I find out more of the details of this case, if I decide to look into it more.

As for the 80% thing? I didn't say that on this forum. I wish I hadn't said it at all. It was something said partially in jest and partially in frustration on a forum with basically no voices of reason pushing in the other direction, but even in that environment I think I went too far compared to what others were weighing in with. Keep in mind that AFTER saying that (some months later I think) that same forum banned me for being too liberal, yes really.

As I've said before, during my recalibration of my worldview I have over-corrected and had to dial it back... if I had my wish, I would have made that transition more gracefully or not made it at all. If I could have done it in an environment without a textual record, that would've been better yet lol

Regardless, I can't change that. I can only try to do better. Mind you, even in that quote I was obviously saying something positive about the other 20%

 

[SheHateMe]

I get it, you aren't interested in viewing this as a complex case at all... that's fine.

There is nothing complex about rape.


Sorry.

As for the 80% thing? I didn't say that on this forum.

Oh. I guess your "Race and Genetics" thread in which you made that statement never actually existed, then. We were all dreaming when we read that. And how convenient was it that you vanished without a trace for weeks right after that thread was shut down by the mods.

 

[Geosurface]

Oh. I guess your "Race and Genetics" thread in which you made that statement never actually existed, then. We were all dreaming when we read that. And how convenient was it that you vanished without a trace for weeks right after that thread was shut down by the mods.

I didn't say that in that thread, Lotus posted it in that thread after obtaining it from another website.

You really don't see anything different in this case vs. something like what was portrayed in that Jodi Foster movie? Honestly?