CNN Demonizes Vaping

[Eug]

That's so sensational, it simply must be true!

In reality, that statistic just can't be true. Almost surely a distortion. Probably 13% of teens have tried a vaper belonging to a friend or family member, but do not own one or vape/smoke regularly. I used to see teens smoking all the time. Now, it's incredibly rare and shocking to see. I've never seen a teenager vaping.

You can take it up with the CDC.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6414a3.htm?s_cid=mm6414a3_w#tab

They estimate that in the US there are about 2.5 million high school and middle school e-cig users.

 

[CZroe]

Teen vaping includes those who aren't vaping drugs, which is perfectly legal until it can be proven harmful and regulated. It's a useless figure.

How many kids chew gum? Are they all chewing nicotine gum? You MUST differentiate for that figure to matter.

 

[Hugo Drax]

Remember Americans always need a demon that needs slaying. We need wars on XXXX to keep the public happy.

 

[mizzou]

I dont know if this was a dream or real...but someone said vaping can leave a "plasticky" smell in your car?

 

[OutHouse]

I dont know if this was a dream or real...but someone said vaping can leave a "plasticky" smell in your car?

how do you get a Mizzou grad off your porch?

pay him for the pizza.

😎

 

[Eug]

Teen vaping includes those who aren't vaping drugs, which is perfectly legal until it can be proven harmful and regulated. It's a useless figure.

How many kids chew gum? Are they all chewing nicotine gum? You MUST differentiate for that figure to matter.

You keep going out of your way to come up with these ridiculous comparisons.

But since you asked, the study was specifically geared to tobacco products, (including hookah use, which is also increasing rapidly) although there is likely some mis-reporting happening. Still it's a pretty big number, even if you arbitrarily cut one-third of those out.

The point is, unlike Ichinisan's belief that vaping is rare amongst teens, it's actually relatively common, and increasing. Furthermore, a good chunk of those teens are using nicotine-containing products for their vaping.

 

[CZroe]

You keep going out of your way to come up with these ridiculous comparisons.

But since you asked, the study was specifically geared to tobacco products, (including hookah use, which is also increasing rapidly) although there is likely some mis-reporting happening. Still it's a pretty big number, even if you arbitrarily cut one-third of those out.

The point is, unlike Ichinisan's belief that vaping is rare amongst teens, it's actually relatively common, and increasing. Furthermore, a good chunk of those teens are using nicotine-containing products for their vaping.

I'm surprised that you would object to the comparison. You must think that it's already been proven to be significantly harmful to minors to have an objection (note: junk food is harmful to minors too; it must be significant).

I actually called Ichinisan to tell him that I see teens using them in public every day even though he may not (very different work environments).

If it includes all vaping (not just nicotine) then I see 13% as being a normal number and nothing to be concerned about unless it proves harmful... just like anything else your kids might be consuming. I recall the percentage of kids smoking being higher than that when I was in high school. Because not all kids are using this as a smoking substitute, I expect HIGHER numbers eventually. Even then, we will be in better shape than before it existed.

 

[Eug]

I'm surprised that you would object to the comparison. You must think that it's already been proven to be significantly harmful to minors to have an objection (note: junk food is harmful to minors too; it must be significant).

I actually called Ichinisan to tell him that I see teens using them in public every day even though he may not (very different work environments).

If it includes all vaping (not just nicotine) then I see 13% as being a normal number and nothing to be concerned about unless it proves harmful... just like anything else your kids might be consuming. I recall the percentage of kids smoking being higher than that when I was in high school. Because not all kids are using this as a smoking substitute, I expect HIGHER numbers eventually. Even then, we will be in better shape than before it existed.

Cigarette smoking had been gradually decreasing over the years. The problem here is that vaping has exploded exponentially, with a lot of those kids using nicotine containing products.

The reason the CDC is so concerned is because it's looking like vaping is undermining much of the work the US has done in previous years to decrease smoking in teens.

I personally see 13% as way too many, even if one-third of them never use any nicotine-containing products (which BTW I find extremely hard to believe).

 

[randay]

breaking news from cnn: vape rhymes with rape, coincidence? i think not.

 

[Ichinisan]

Cigarette smoking had been gradually decreasing over the years. The problem here is that vaping has exploded exponentially, with a lot of those kids using nicotine containing products.

We're back to this:

 

[Eug]

We're back to this:

Uh no. We're talking over 13% of middle school and high school kids as of 2014. That's a HUGE amount. We're talking millions in the US alone. MILLIONS.

Nowhere did I say it's going to be 75% or 50% in a couple of years. 13% is already way, way too many.

I would suspect the number could reach 20% though, which is 1 in 5 teens. It's already almost 1 in 7.

 

[Ichinisan]

Uh no. We're talking over 13% of middle school and high school kids as of 2014. That's a HUGE amount. We're talking millions in the US alone. MILLIONS.

Nowhere did I say it's going to be 75% or 50% in a couple of years. 13% is already way, way too many.

I would suspect the number could reach 20% though, which is 1 in 5 teens.

"exploded exponentially"

They were basically all just introduced to it, so "exponential growth" is expected when you're starting from nil.

Also, the 13% figure is almost certainly exaggerated. I suspect that's how many people have tried it (ie: friend or family member asked them to take a hit). I don't think 13% vape regularly. Maybe I'm wrong...

Even if it is 13%, that's no problem if it's eventually shown to be no more harmful than chewing gum. If it's shown to be extremely harmful, or harmful to others who don't participate, then ban the stuff. By all means.

 

[Eug]

"exploded exponentially"

They were basically all just introduced to it, so "exponential growth" is expected when you're starting from nil.

Also, the 13% figure is almost certainly exaggerated. I suspect that's how many people have tried it (ie: friend or family member asked them to take a hit). I don't think 13% vape regularly. Maybe I'm wrong...

Even if it is 13%, that's no problem if it's eventually shown to be no more harmful than chewing gum. If it's shown to be extremely harmful, or harmful to others who don't participate, then ban the stuff. By all means.

Nicotine based vaping is a problem, and a lot of kids are using that. Some aren't, and there are debates as to the relative numbers of nicotine based vaping vs non-nicotine based vaping in teens, but nonetheless it's significant when you already have MILLIONS of American teens vaping.

As for the exponential growth comment, my point was that as a result of exponential growth, the number has already hit over 13%. That's huge. Remember also, some kids will not self report in these studies, even when they know it's anonymous.

 

[Ichinisan]

Nicotine based vaping is a problem,

It could be. I'd hesitate to run around stating that as a fact.

What if nicotine is no more harmful / addicting than caffeine or sugar?

A significant part of the addiction with cigarettes is behavior. Brains are wired after smoking for months/years/decades and people can't even figure out how to have a conversation without doing something while they converse.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Nicotine based vaping is a problem, and a lot of kids are using that. Some aren't, and there are debates as to the relative numbers of nicotine based vaping vs non-nicotine based vaping in teens, but nonetheless it's significant when you already have MILLIONS of American teens vaping.

As for the exponential growth comment, my point was that as a result of exponential growth, the number has already hit over 13%. That's huge. Remember also, some kids will not self report in these studies, even when they know it's anonymous.

Meh it started off hot around here and has pretty much died out.

 

[sourceninja]

...

 

[Eug]

It could be. I'd hesitate to run around stating that as a fact. What if nicotine is no more harmful / addicting than caffeine or sugar?

According to the US Surgeon General, nicotine is more harmful than caffeine. To put it in real-world terms, nicotine in usual doses can cause harm, whereas caffeine in usual doses likely doesn't. Furthermore, caffeine potentiates the effects of nicotine. The main real "benefit" of smokeless nicotine vs. smoking is that nicotine isn't proven to cause cancer, whereas smoking is proven to cause cancer.

Nicotine is also more addictive than caffeine.

 

[mizzou]

how do you get a Mizzou grad off your porch?

pay him for the pizza.

😎

I won't dispute the facts, but doesnt mean I need to like them! 😛

 

[mizzou]

Vaping is like drinking diet coke.

 

[flexy]

The reason the CDC is so concerned is because it's looking like vaping is undermining much of the work the US has done in previous years to decrease smoking in teens.

You're talking about vaping and smoking like it's the same thing, but I just take myself the freedom here and compare vaping to licking a lollipop or chewing gum, because there too nothing is combusted and therefore creating carcinogenic substances.

The nr. of vapers (and here in particular kids) who vape liquids WITH NICOTINE I admittedly don't know - it is therefore pointless to make a statement here, except that of course a kid which never smoked and started vaping has no "rational reason" to vape liquids with Nic, they don't need to "come down" from real cigarettes. They could as well vape just for the flavor. And I say: Why not?

The CDC can be and should be concerned once we have studies suggesting that vaping is indeed harmful. We DON'T have such studies, even if most studies conclude "we don't know" and it's POSSIBLE that vaping still has some negative effects which still have to be determined.

But what we DO KNOW is that smoking is harmful, and if I compare vaping and smoking right now I have any reason to assume that vaping (as an alternative to smoking) is "much better" with less negative health effects.

Anyone who is "for bans" is also promoting that millions of vapers who once smoked would be going back to smoking with all the negative effects.

When I found out about vaping about 10 years ago, I remember very well, at first I couldn't even believe that something like that even exists...I thought it was pure genius. I think I ordered my 1st ecig the same day when I learned about them. This was 10 years ago where people ordered stuff "from China" and really had no idea what they vaped. Now you have liquid vendors almost everywhere and many of them make liquids under strict and controlled tests and you know what it's in them.

For me, that vaping took off in the last years is a GOOD thing and not a negative. But I am not surprised that a multi-billion dollar industry (which vaping certainly has become) is demonized and I am pretty certain that the tobacco industry has their hands in there.

 

[WelshBloke]

What if nicotine is no more harmful / addicting than caffeine or sugar?

It isn't, it's a lot more addictive than caffeine or sugar.

 

[blackangst1]

I, personally, dont care if teens are vaping. That said, Id like to see tighter control on the sale of ejuice. With THAT said Ive seen vape shops decline sales to underage persons, but of course, like the sale of underage cigs, Im sure some dont.

The reason the CDC is so concerned is because it's looking like vaping is undermining much of the work the US has done in previous years to decrease smoking in teens.

The problem I have with this statement is youre casually equating vaping with smoking. Until you have come to terms that are two very different things and should be treated, AND REGULATED, differently, there really isnt anything left to talk about. Vaping != smoking. End of story.

/edit: somehow missed flexy's comment, which is spot on.

 

[blackangst1]

According to the US Surgeon General, nicotine is more harmful than caffeine. To put it in real-world terms, nicotine in usual doses can cause harm, whereas caffeine in usual doses likely doesn't. Furthermore, caffeine potentiates the effects of nicotine. The main real "benefit" of smokeless nicotine vs. smoking is that nicotine isn't proven to cause cancer, whereas smoking is proven to cause cancer.

Nicotine is also more addictive than caffeine.

HERE let me quote the US Surgeon General for you:

Very little human data are on human cancer risk
relating to nicotine. The Lung Health Study is the only
study that provides information about long-term users of
NRT (Murray et al. 2009). This study was not designed to
directly examine nicotine’s potential cancer risk. It was
a 5-year randomized trial to assess the effects of smoking cessation and reduction on chronic lung disease and lung function. Among 5,887 persons initially enrolled, the
researchers continued to follow them for an additional 7
years (n = 3,220). Study participants were offered NRT
without consideration of randomization or study design.
Although they were encouraged to use NRT for only 6
months, many continued to use it long term. A total of 75
lung cancers were diagnosed among smokers and quitters
of the extended surveillance group, but the use of NRT
was not associated with lung cancer (or other cancers).
A major limitation was the short follow-up period of only
7 additional years. Notwithstanding the limitations, this
study at least does not indicate a strong role for nicotine in
promoting carcinogenesis in humans, and clearly the risk,
if any, is less than continued smoking.

Please refrain from sputing about how the surgeon general has demonized nicotine. Because its simply not true. The fact is, until such time as the surgeon general studies vape like they have with cigs/smokeless tobacco, to cross contaminate vape discussions with (the lack of) information from the surgeon general is disingenuous.

If youre willing to look beyond the surgeon general, there have been MANY health studies done with regards to the effects of vape. If you care to look. www.casaa.org is a good place to start.

 

[Eug]

Uh, you just repeated what I already said in my post, which is that there is no good evidence that nicotine causes cancer.

However, the whole point of my post was that nicotine causes harm, but not by causing cancer. While it is significantly less harmful than smoking, it is not harmless, particular for the young.

If you're focusing on cancer and arguing that nicotine is safe because it probably doesn't cause cancer, you're basically spreading misinformation.

I, personally, dont care if teens are vaping.

And that about sums it up. Quoted for posterity.

 

[slightlyhuman]

don't care what people do to their bodies. however you're a fucking prick if you do it inside. I don't get this entitlement vapers have to use it in doors, or while standing in a line.

Vape all you want, have some common decency about it though.