CNN Demonizes Vaping

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CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
don't care what people do to their bodies. however you're a fucking prick if you do it inside. I don't get this entitlement vapers have to use it in doors, or while standing in a line.

Vape all you want, have some common decency about it though.

Do you know something we don't know? You seem to know that it is indecent and does something to bodies and that there is some reason that they shouldn't do it inside or in lines.

Oh. You don't have a reason yet? So what else do people have to do outside without reason to avoid angering you? Blink? Breathe? Eat? Sit? Drink? Talk? Brush teeth? Compose poetry? Knit? Read?

No? Then I'm not sure why you think people have to be cleared to do something so specific if there is no reason to assume it's harmful.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,839
2,625
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CZroe you are coming from the wrong direction. We non-vapers derive none of the so-called benefit or pleasure you get from your vaping. We should not be exposed involuntarily to your indoor pollution. If the studies a decade or so establish your vaping causes secondhand cancer I doubt great you vapers will step up to pay us for the damages and lose of life you directly caused.

IMO vaping should be treated like smoking and users banished to their shooting alleys where they won't harm others. If in a decade or two it is conclusively proven safe to others then maybe you have a basis for subjecting us to your offensive byproducts, but not until then.
 

PliotronX

Diamond Member
Oct 17, 1999
8,883
107
106
CZroe you are coming from the wrong direction. We non-vapers derive none of the so-called benefit or pleasure you get from your vaping. We should not be exposed involuntarily to your indoor pollution. If the studies a decade or so establish your vaping causes secondhand cancer I doubt great you vapers will step up to pay us for the damages and lose of life you directly caused.

IMO vaping should be treated like smoking and users banished to their shooting alleys where they won't harm others. If in a decade or two it is conclusively proven safe to others then maybe you have a basis for subjecting us to your offensive byproducts, but not until then.
There are far worse things in the air, particularly within urban areas, that you inhale on a daily basis. Dbags shouldn't be blowing in people's particular directions however in the US, the burden of proof is on evaluating whether something is harmful and support for your views is not looking good.

Though this indoor vaping is besides the point, the original post was a senationalist "save the children" story and as with any of that type, it is asinine.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,579
982
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These products should not be sold to teenagers. Make the minimum age to buy them 18, just like cigarettes.

I've told my son about the dangers of smoking and that I don't want to ever catch him vaping.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
CZroe you are coming from the wrong direction. We non-vapers derive none of the so-called benefit or pleasure you get from your vaping. We should not be exposed involuntarily to your indoor pollution. If the studies a decade or so establish your vaping causes secondhand cancer I doubt great you vapers will step up to pay us for the damages and lose of life you directly caused.
I don't know how many times I've had to say it in this thread but I DO NOT VAPE. Stop trying to wave-away SOLID LOGIC with that dismissive BS. If you can't argue with reason and resort to accusing someone of bias: YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT. Well, other than "I just don't like it." Boo hoo.

I have never vaped nor smoked, nor toked, nor drank alcohol. I never intend to do or profit from ANY of those things. It does not change my opinion because I base it on reasoned logic. I'm not the only one. Look at Penn and Teller: STRONG advocates of personal liberty who are for legalized drugs despite not partaking themselves.

Now, back to the conversation at hand. You can't call it "indoor pollution" and expect that to mean anything until you can prove that it is harmful. You don't have to enjoy or benefit from something someone else does for it to be legal. It simply can't be regulated unless it infringes on your liberties. Prove that it does and that your objection is based on more than a psychosomatic annoyance and you can ban it where you don't want it, exactly like cigarettes.

You have no reason to believe vaping is dangerous to bystanders and yet you use that scenario to say that it should be regulated first rather than waiting for proof. What if we applied that to all of our freedoms and products? You couldn't legally make or sell ANYTHING until long-term studies were done, but how do you get long-term studies when it was illegal?! Little Suzie's lemonade stand was shut down when she was 10 and she wasn't able to open it up again until she was broke at 20. :rolleyes: Once again:
It doesn't sound like our forefathers thought safety was a good enough reason to sacrifice liberty:
Benjamin Franklin said:
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase ... safety, deserve neither...
Patrick Henry said:
Give me liberty or give me death!
Why do you hate freedom? Time and time again it has been proven that you cannot have perfect safety and perfect freedom. DEAL WITH IT.

IMO vaping should be treated like smoking and users banished to their shooting alleys where they won't harm others. If in a decade or two it is conclusively proven safe to others then maybe you have a basis for subjecting us to your offensive byproducts, but not until then.
And is that opinion based on logic or reasoning? If it were, you'd see that it *IS* being treated exactly like smoking and that is NOT what you are asking for. Let's look at the general history of how tobacco products and anything else were regulated:
First it was freely introduced
Then concerns were raised (some valid, some not)
Then studies came to conclusions (confirming some, dismissing others, and discovering more)
Then regulatory actions were taken to protect bystanders from the valid, confirmed, concerns
Then information campaigns to inform and dissuade legal users began

You can't just skip steps without even a working theory for how it could be harmful for bystanders.

These products should not be sold to teenagers. Make the minimum age to buy them 18, just like cigarettes.

I've told my son about the dangers of smoking and that I don't want to ever catch him vaping.
I think you mean that these products, containing known addictive, psychoactive, or other such ingredients, should not be sold to children. Don't forget that there are many innocuous vapors. You can still forbid you children from having even those just like some parents don't allow their kids to have junk food.

That's the problem most people in this thread are having: They completely fail to distinguish "vaping" from nicotine or THC dosing. It's like treating scented markers for kids the same as dangerous permanent markers people are huffing to get high.
 
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SearchMaster

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2002
7,791
114
106
I am a fervent non-smoker (I get pretty ill from cigarette smoke, probably stemming from both parents being chain smokers the first 8 years of my life), and we had a vaper (vapist?) live with us a couple of months earlier this year. I didn't mind the vape smell that much, as mentioned before it was akin to someone with too much mildly unpleasant perfume or something. I will say that for months after he left, I could smell the vape odors in the leather furniture.

Before he moved in there was an incident where he smoked a cigarette outside, and the cigarette smoke got into the heating system and into the room I was in. I went outside and asked him to move somewhere else, it was enough that I got a headache from it.

I've not been a situation where several vapers were in the same room so I can't comment on whether it would potentially ruin a meal at a restaurant or something. But certainly it should be something for adults only, I can't see how anyone could argue otherwise.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
I am a fervent non-smoker (I get pretty ill from cigarette smoke, probably stemming from both parents being chain smokers the first 8 years of my life), and we had a vaper (vapist?) live with us a couple of months earlier this year. I didn't mind the vape smell that much, as mentioned before it was akin to someone with too much mildly unpleasant perfume or something. I will say that for months after he left, I could smell the vape odors in the leather furniture.

Before he moved in there was an incident where he smoked a cigarette outside, and the cigarette smoke got into the heating system and into the room I was in. I went outside and asked him to move somewhere else, it was enough that I got a headache from it.

I've not been a situation where several vapers were in the same room so I can't comment on whether it would potentially ruin a meal at a restaurant or something. But certainly it should be something for adults only, I can't see how anyone could argue otherwise.
Because you aren't coming at it from the right perspective. Should brownies be for adults only? I mean, some brownies have THC in them. :hmm:

Not all vape liquids have these things. I don't see anyone rushing to ban scented markers for kids even though dangerous markers with fumes that get you high are abused all the time (literally encountered both scenarios a few days ago). Is it a good idea to let kids vape just because it may be safe and may not have nicotine or THC? Nope. It's dangerously similar to the things we know they shouldn't have (nicotine and THC liquids), but that doesn't mean it should be illegal. It just means parents don't have to buy it for their kids and they can punish them for disobeying.
 
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Oct 9, 1999
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Do you know something we don't know? You seem to know that it is indecent and does something to bodies and that there is some reason that they shouldn't do it inside or in lines.

Oh. You don't have a reason yet? So what else do people have to do outside without reason to avoid angering you? Blink? Breathe? Eat? Sit? Drink? Talk? Brush teeth? Compose poetry? Knit? Read?

No? Then I'm not sure why you think people have to be cleared to do something so specific if there is no reason to assume it's harmful.

My first comment was my stance on anything people do to their bodies, you can roll your jump to conclusions mat up though.

Oh. So vapers really feel the need to vape every single opportunity they get rather it be indoor or in a fucking cubicle when someone is trying to teach you how to do their job(past thread in ATOT)? I'm in the wrong because I don't want to see vapor a few feet in front of me indoors?

Yes? I am wrong?

LOL. Carry on.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
857
126
My first comment was my stance on anything people do to their bodies, you can roll your jump to conclusions mat up though.

Oh. So vapers really feel the need to vape every single opportunity they get rather it be indoor or in a fucking cubicle when someone is trying to teach you how to do their job(past thread in ATOT)? I'm in the wrong because I don't want to see vapor a few feet in front of me indoors?

Yes? I am wrong?

LOL. Carry on.
Yes. You are totally wrong. The laws aren't there to stop people from doing things based on no other reason than you "don't like it." They aren't even there to enforce majority rule. They are there to preserve liberty by defining when someone else's liberty crosses the line and impacts yours.

If you think that there "should" be a law, what would be your legal justification for it AT THIS POINT? It can't be that you don't like it and it can't be that it is harmful to the user. In order to regulate it, it must be proven to be harmful to minors or bystanders. There's your template.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
These products should not be sold to teenagers. Make the minimum age to buy them 18, just like cigarettes.

I've told my son about the dangers of smoking and that I don't want to ever catch him vaping.

do you know what the law is in your state? in CO its 18.
 
Oct 9, 1999
19,632
38
91
Yes. You are totally wrong. The laws aren't there to stop people from doing things based on no other reason than you "don't like it." They aren't even there to enforce majority rule. They are there to preserve liberty by defining when someone else's liberty crosses the line and impacts yours.

If you think that there "should" be a law, what would be your legal justification for it AT THIS POINT? It can't be that you don't like it and it can't be that it is harmful to the user. In order to regulate it, it must be proven to be harmful to minors or bystanders. There's your template.


I know your dick is getting hard arguing with every one in here but you do realize none of my posts said anything about laws, only a subjective opinion that you don't like, right?

Are you ok with this? I will give you a hug.
 

sm625

Diamond Member
May 6, 2011
8,172
137
106
Question: What's in that vaping liquid you're buying from the very trustworthy people in China?

No one buys eliquid from china. Most of it is mixed locally. The bottles unfortunately are probably made in china.
 

Geekbabe

Moderator Emeritus<br>Elite Member
Oct 16, 1999
32,229
2,539
126
www.theshoppinqueen.com
I am not in favor of " demonizing" anything but as a stage IV lung cancer patient I will say this, if you don't smoke, don't start. Vaping may well be harmless but if you don't need to inhale substances into your lungs, why start, particularly if you are a teenager?

I can tell you this, the consequences of lung cancer are far from pleasant.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,318
682
126
I am not in favor of " demonizing" anything but as a stage IV lung cancer patient I will say this, if you don't smoke, don't start. Vaping may well be harmless but if you don't need to inhale substances into your lungs, why start, particularly if you are a teenager?

I can tell you this, the consequences of lung cancer are far from pleasant.
I agree with that. I've been around people with lung cancer. My father has lung issues too and he still smokes. If you never started don't bother to start and just because I use ecigs doesn't mean they are for everyone since they are less harmful. A lot of people ask me if I used to smoke when im vaping. They think now that its just a mainstream thing to do. Of course I was a smoker or else I probably would not have stopped.
 

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
26,067
24,396
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http://fivethirtyeight.com/features...e-dont-know-if-e-cigs-lead-kids-to-real-cigs/

"If you followed the news this week, you might think that teens who try electronic cigarettes are bound to take up Marlboros too. “Yep, e-cigarettes are a gateway to smoking,” read a news story published by the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. “Teens who vape appear more likely to smoke” was the headline at Reuters, and CBS Boston ran a story titled “E-Cigarette Smoking Gateway To The Real Thing, Study Finds.”

This is what happens when 16 people are made to represent an entire population.

Those headlines were reporting on a study published Tuesday in the journal JAMA Pediatrics in which researchers asked volunteers ages 16 to 26 a series of questions on two occasions, a year apart.

On the first survey, 694 people answered “definitely no” when asked the following: “If one of your friends offered you a cigarette, would you try it?” and “Do you think you will smoke a cigarette sometime in the next year?” The researchers deemed these respondents “nonsusceptible.” Importantly, some of these respondents said they had used e-cigarettes.

A year later, those same 694 participants were surveyed again, and this time, 37.5 percent of the original e-cigarette users said that they’d gone on to smoke traditional cigarettes. That’s a big percentage considering they weren’t supposed to be susceptible, especially when you consider that only 9.6 percent of the respondents who hadn’t tried e-cigs before that first survey had taken up smoking during the same time period.

The buzziest finding: Compared with people who hadn’t used e-cigarettes before the first survey, those who had were about eight times1 as likely to progress to trying a tobacco cigarette by the time of the second survey.

Those startling numbers — an 8x multiplier and 37.5 percent conversion rate — were the kind that made their way into the journal’s press release and the news stories. And as press releases go so goes overhyped journalism. If only the numbers were worthy of the headlines.

To understand why they’re not, let’s look at where that big 37.5 percent number comes from. All those “nonsusceptibles” who said they had tried e-cigarettes on the first survey? There were only 16 of them (2.3 percent of 694). And a grand total of six of those 16 people started smoking during the one-year period between the first and second surveys. Voila, six out of 16 makes 37.5 percent — it’s a big number that comes from a small number, which makes it a dubious one.

So because six people started smoking, news reports alleged that e-cigs were a gateway to analog cigs. The study could have just as easily been framed another way: Ten times as many people who hadn’t vaped became smokers as those who’d used e-cigarettes. (Sixty-five of the 678 “nonsusceptibles” who had never vaped eventually took a puff of a traditional cigarette.)

The study’s lead author, Brian Primack, a professor at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, told me that given the “statistical significance” of the results, it’s OK to draw conclusions. In medicine, he said, scientists often base an entire finding on a small group. “We’ll find that seven people had a heart attack in this group and only four had a heart attack in this group, and based on that, we will forever say that you should take Lipitor,” he said. He wasn’t expecting the small sample in this study to yield statistically significant results, but after analyzing the data in numerous ways, “it was all just very consistent,” Primack said. “We think we really are getting a signal here.” If the peer reviewers had decided they couldn’t base their conclusions on 16 people, “then that’s their prerogative,” Primack said, but the paper was accepted by the journal."

more at link
 

Brian Stirling

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,964
2
0
I can't believe this thread is still going on. So, one more time...

Within 2-5 years vaping will be regulated and treated more-or-less as cigarettes are today and the same or similar protocols will need to be followed by vapers. When these inevitable laws become the norm you will need to go outside to the designated area to vape just as the cigarette smokers do. Additionally, there will be special attention paid to younger people to head off the obvious effort the tobacco industry is making to addict a new generation into the tobacco habit.

You can try to spin this as a harmless pass time that isn't a gateway to tobacco but the tobacco industry isn't investing in this for nothing. I expect the minimum age to buy and use will become 21.

So, you have 2-5 years to enjoy it because sooner or later the party will be over. But, even if the party was over today I'd bet the tobacco industry has added a goodly number of new addicts because of vaping.


Brian
 

pete6032

Diamond Member
Dec 3, 2010
8,138
3,580
136
Three of the liquids tested by the Journal Sentinel with the highest levels of diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione were sent to Enthalpy Analytical, a North Carolina lab that specializes in e-liquid testing for the industry. Enthalpy runs tests on about 500 e-liquid samples per month, from industry giants to folks who mix their own juices to sell to local shops. Enthalpy's tests did not detect either of the chemicals in two of the samples.

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/wa...-harmful-chemicals-b99583582z1-334833961.html
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,321
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Just wowza...what about vaping is considered safe?? The chemicals...hmmm
 
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