Clinton Supporters - Hang Tough!

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I think they secretly want McCain to veto Hillary's universal health care bill.

Or don't want Obama appointing Deval Patrick to institute the universal health care system he implemented in Massachusetts, nationwide.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Originally posted by: ericlp

Originally posted by: preslove


You people seriously are insane. Clinton's and Obama's policy proposals were nearly identical, while McCain is on a different planet.


WHY WOULD YOU VOTE FOR MCCAIN????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

It is simply irrational.

Race issue...

It's that simple...

And what of all of the Obama supporters stating they'd vote for McCain instead of Clinton?

 

[jman19]

There's no way b0mbrman is serious, is there?

 

[Descartes]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

I think what he wants is to make candidates fight for the voters (i.e. promise as many things as they possibly can). Of course most of the promises won't be kept, but who keeps count anyway, it's the fact that they "care" that counts (for the whole 6 months leading up to election time).

I really fail to see what OP hopes to accomplish there.

I do want to see the candidates fight for every vote. I don't want to hear any more promises they can't keep but I would like to hear how much the current list of promises might cost and I'd like to hear details of how we'll pay for them. I've already heard huge lists of campaign promises. I've only heard of eliminating the Bush tax cuts, raising the cap gains, and getting out of Iraq as a means of generating the extra income. There is still a big imbalance in proposed spending vs. additional income. The time for ambiguous speeches has past. It's time to get to the meat and potatoes of the issues. Let's hear some detailed explanations of Iraq policy and economic policy. Let's hear some more details of Israeli/Palestinian policy that doesn't require a flip flop the next day. Let's hear some very detailed energy policies. It's not a beauty contest anymore.

The thing I hope to accomplish is to remind the candidates that they are not entitled. They will be working for us. Explain to us, in detail, why we should trust them. Earn my vote, not with empty promises or delusions of hope and change but with substance.

I hear this all the time. You can't honestly expect any politician to explain everything during a debate or speech, can you? It's up to the voter to do their own due diligence to find out how comprehensive their ideas really are.

For your reading enjoyment:

Barack Obama
Hillary Clinton
John McCain

Obama has a particularly comprehensive paper on the subject (here; WARNING: PDF) with another on health care alone (here; same warning).

This "no substance" argument, for any of the candidates, is getting so seriously trite because people never even bother to read what's already available and has been available for months (and if you read the books of McCain or Obama, a lot longer than that; they've both spelled out their philosophies on these subjects years ago in some cases).

If you somehow expect a politician to get up there and start talking to the level of detail as you'll see on these websites and papers, you're going to be disappointed. As voters, it's our job to find the core philosophical differences and then drill into it from there, imo.

[edit]Fixed link.[/edit]

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: jman19
There's no way b0mbrman is serious, is there?

I believe he was a Hillary supporter, but decided at an early point in this thread, "eff it, I'm going the self-parody route here." <shrug>

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: Descartes

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

I think what he wants is to make candidates fight for the voters (i.e. promise as many things as they possibly can). Of course most of the promises won't be kept, but who keeps count anyway, it's the fact that they "care" that counts (for the whole 6 months leading up to election time).

I really fail to see what OP hopes to accomplish there.

I do want to see the candidates fight for every vote. I don't want to hear any more promises they can't keep but I would like to hear how much the current list of promises might cost and I'd like to hear details of how we'll pay for them. I've already heard huge lists of campaign promises. I've only heard of eliminating the Bush tax cuts, raising the cap gains, and getting out of Iraq as a means of generating the extra income. There is still a big imbalance in proposed spending vs. additional income. The time for ambiguous speeches has past. It's time to get to the meat and potatoes of the issues. Let's hear some detailed explanations of Iraq policy and economic policy. Let's hear some more details of Israeli/Palestinian policy that doesn't require a flip flop the next day. Let's hear some very detailed energy policies. It's not a beauty contest anymore.

The thing I hope to accomplish is to remind the candidates that they are not entitled. They will be working for us. Explain to us, in detail, why we should trust them. Earn my vote, not with empty promises or delusions of hope and change but with substance.

I hear this all the time. You can't honestly expect any politician to explain everything during a debate or speech, can you? It's up to the voter to do their own due diligence to find out how comprehensive their ideas really are.

For your reading enjoyment:

Barack Obama
Hillary Clinton
John McCain

Obama has a particularly comprehensive paper on the subject (here; WARNING: PDF) with another on health care alone (here; same warning).

This "no substance" argument, for any of the candidates, is getting so seriously trite because people never even bother to read what's already available and has been available for months (and if you read the books of McCain or Obama, a lot longer than that; they've both spelled out their philosophies on these subjects years ago in some cases).

If you somehow expect a politician to get up there and start talking to the level of detail as you'll see on these websites and papers, you're going to be disappointed. As voters, it's our job to find the core philosophical differences and then drill into it from there, imo.

[edit]Fixed link.[/edit]

If there's a Hillary Clinton campaign office near you, you can go there and ask them to print out any fact sheet you want.

Even if you're not close to a Hillary Clinton campaign office, you can call the state headquarters and ask them to e-mail you a fact sheet in .pdf format.

 

[yowolabi]

Originally posted by: RY62

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed

I think what he wants is to make candidates fight for the voters (i.e. promise as many things as they possibly can). Of course most of the promises won't be kept, but who keeps count anyway, it's the fact that they "care" that counts (for the whole 6 months leading up to election time).

I really fail to see what OP hopes to accomplish there.

I do want to see the candidates fight for every vote. I don't want to hear any more promises they can't keep but I would like to hear how much the current list of promises might cost and I'd like to hear details of how we'll pay for them. I've already heard huge lists of campaign promises. I've only heard of eliminating the Bush tax cuts, raising the cap gains, and getting out of Iraq as a means of generating the extra income. There is still a big imbalance in proposed spending vs. additional income. The time for ambiguous speeches has past. It's time to get to the meat and potatoes of the issues. Let's hear some detailed explanations of Iraq policy and economic policy. Let's hear some more details of Israeli/Palestinian policy that doesn't require a flip flop the next day. Let's hear some very detailed energy policies. It's not a beauty contest anymore.

The thing I hope to accomplish is to remind the candidates that they are not entitled. They will be working for us. Explain to us, in detail, why we should trust them. Earn my vote, not with empty promises or delusions of hope and change but with substance.

Somehow Hillary earned your vote by now, even though she has done nothing that the other candidates haven't done.

I can't figure out why Obama has a different standard than Hillary.

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Hilbama:laugh:

You owe me a bottle of Brain Bleach

 

[Painman]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman

Originally posted by: jpeyton
I think they secretly want McCain to veto Hillary's universal health care bill.

Or don't want Obama appointing Deval Patrick to institute the universal health care system he implemented in Massachusetts, nationwide.

Mittens gave us that travesty, not Patrick.

 

[b0mbrman]

Great news everyone.

From this thread:

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Wait, there's a Vice President vote?

there is.

the convention doesn't "have" to nominate the presidential nominee's pick, and afaik, you can vote for president and vice president independently (so you could theoretically have a situation where one party's P gets elected and the other party's VP gets it...)

You have no idea how good my heart feels right now

 

[Bitek]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Great news everyone.

From this thread:

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Wait, there's a Vice President vote?

there is.

the convention doesn't "have" to nominate the presidential nominee's pick, and afaik, you can vote for president and vice president independently (so you could theoretically have a situation where one party's P gets elected and the other party's VP gets it...)

You have no idea how good my heart feels right now

Did you just link the the current thread? OMG i think you tore a hole in the space-time continuum.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: Hafen

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Great news everyone.

From this thread:

Originally posted by: loki8481

Originally posted by: b0mbrman

Wait, there's a Vice President vote?

there is.

the convention doesn't "have" to nominate the presidential nominee's pick, and afaik, you can vote for president and vice president independently (so you could theoretically have a situation where one party's P gets elected and the other party's VP gets it...)

You have no idea how good my heart feels right now

Did you just link the the current thread? OMG i think you tore a hole in the space-time continuum.

LOL. Lay off. I'm a little emotional right now

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2195823&enterthread=y

 

[jjzelinski]

I never envisioned b0mberman being this theatrical for so many days

 

[Perknose]

Originally posted by: jjzelinski
I never envisioned b0mberman being this theatrical for so many days

It's almost like he decided not to stay hung up in his closet, but to wear himself out . . . for Hillary!

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: RY62
Now that we've heard the concession speech from Hillary, there is a push from both sides to capture the Clinton support base. That's only logical, the Clinton base is now the single most powerful voting block in the country. We are the ones that will decide this election. Hillary has been driven out of the race and Obama has delared himself the nominee, calling the Democratic party "MY PARTY".

Well, I have news for you Mr. Obama... Don't let the power go to your head to quickly. This is not your party. You are still the presumptive nominee and this is still OUR PARTY! IF we decide to give you the job, it will still be our party and you will work for us.

I am urging all Clinton supporters to unite and remain as an undecided voting block until the very end. Don't let either candidate take you for granted. Both sides are going to pull out all stops, trying to scoop up Clinton supporters as soon as possible. They know that once you are behind them it is very difficult to make you change your mind, so they want to get you now.

I won't try to tell you who should or should not get your vote in November. I am just asking that you remind them that they work for us. Let the rest of this contest be a job interview and make them truly work for your support. Watch both candidates, listen with an open mind, do your research, and make your final decision as you walk into the voting booth in November.

Remember, WE HAVE THE POWER!

Do you really want Mr McCain and the neocons determining foreign policy for the next four to eight years?

Think about where the neocons led the US so far.

 

[b0mbrman]

Um...I was poking around John McCain's website -- for obvious reasons -- and found this.

From JohnMcCain.com

Human Dignity and the Sanctity of Life

Overturning Roe v. Wade

John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench.

Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.

However, the reversal of Roe v. Wade represents only one step in the long path toward ending abortion....

This may be a pretty tough pill for me to swallow

Is there any way Clinton supporters can lobby to get McCain to pledge to not pick judges who'll overturn Roe v. Wade?

 

[rockyct]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Um...I was poking around John McCain's website -- for obvious reasons -- and found this.

From JohnMcCain.com

Human Dignity and the Sanctity of Life

Overturning Roe v. Wade

John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench.

Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.

However, the reversal of Roe v. Wade represents only one step in the long path toward ending abortion....

This may be a pretty tough pill for me to swallow

Is there any way Clinton supporters can lobby to get McCain to pledge to not pick judges who'll overturn Roe v. Wade?

I think his intentions are quite clear with that statement. Also, keep in mind that the two oldest judges Stevens (88) and Ginsburg (75) are both liberal judges. So, if McCain wins it could be very damaging. Of course, Senate has to approve the nominees, but still, I'd rather have a Democrat nominating judges.

 

[Siddhartha]

I was talking to an Obama supporter a couple of months ago. He said that if Ms Clinton got the nomination he was going to vote for Mr McCain. I pointed out to him that he disagreed with most of Mr McCain policies.

He said that he thought that Mr McCain could not do that much harm. I reminded him that people said the same thing about Mr Bush in 2000. And that he should consider where the country is now.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Um...I was poking around John McCain's website -- for obvious reasons -- and found this.

From JohnMcCain.com

Human Dignity and the Sanctity of Life

Overturning Roe v. Wade

John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench.

Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.

However, the reversal of Roe v. Wade represents only one step in the long path toward ending abortion....

This may be a pretty tough pill for me to swallow

Is there any way Clinton supporters can lobby to get McCain to pledge to not pick judges who'll overturn Roe v. Wade?

Well, you could try holding your breath and stamping your feet really hard. That might work. Because I don't see how you'd expect something like that to happen.

 

[nakedfrog]

BTW, some of the hardcore Clinton supporters are pretty messed up

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Um...I was poking around John McCain's website -- for obvious reasons -- and found this.

From JohnMcCain.com

Human Dignity and the Sanctity of Life

Overturning Roe v. Wade

John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench.

Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.

However, the reversal of Roe v. Wade represents only one step in the long path toward ending abortion....

This may be a pretty tough pill for me to swallow

Is there any way Clinton supporters can lobby to get McCain to pledge to not pick judges who'll overturn Roe v. Wade?

Why does it matter when Dems will increase their control in both Senate and the House and they can just filibuster any "unreasonable" nominee?

 

[Robor]

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Um...I was poking around John McCain's website -- for obvious reasons -- and found this.

From JohnMcCain.com

Human Dignity and the Sanctity of Life

Overturning Roe v. Wade

John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench.

Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.

However, the reversal of Roe v. Wade represents only one step in the long path toward ending abortion....

This may be a pretty tough pill for me to swallow

Is there any way Clinton supporters can lobby to get McCain to pledge to not pick judges who'll overturn Roe v. Wade?

The answer is a resounding NO. Hopefully you just got a clue there. :thumbsup:

 

[rockyct]

Originally posted by: nakedfrog
BTW, some of the hardcore Clinton supporters are pretty messed up

With those people, they don't even know why they supported Hillary in the first place because they've created a little world for themselves. The end of the Hillary is still pretty fresh on their minds so they act tough right now. Eventually though, their forum will slowly fade away. I'm sure there will be people that will continue on with the Obama hate through November, but I doubt it will remain as popular as it is right now.

Of course, if they weren't quite so delusional, perhaps one person there would mention that Google can very easily tell that you're clicking multiple times. http://adwords.blogspot.com/20...ut-invalid-clicks.html I doubt they'd be smart enough to actually attempt to fool Google. They just assume that Google charges for ever hit.

 

[b0mbrman]

Originally posted by: alphatarget1

Originally posted by: b0mbrman
Um...I was poking around John McCain's website -- for obvious reasons -- and found this.

From JohnMcCain.com

Human Dignity and the Sanctity of Life

Overturning Roe v. Wade

John McCain believes Roe v. Wade is a flawed decision that must be overturned, and as president he will nominate judges who understand that courts should not be in the business of legislating from the bench.

Constitutional balance would be restored by the reversal of Roe v. Wade, returning the abortion question to the individual states. The difficult issue of abortion should not be decided by judicial fiat.

However, the reversal of Roe v. Wade represents only one step in the long path toward ending abortion....

This may be a pretty tough pill for me to swallow

Is there any way Clinton supporters can lobby to get McCain to pledge to not pick judges who'll overturn Roe v. Wade?

Why does it matter when Dems will increase their control in both Senate and the House and they can just filibuster any "unreasonable" nominee?

Is there any way they can filibuster enough to put liberal judges there?

I know McCain and Bush say they won't perform a "litmus test" on judges, but is that enough?

Somebody please give me something to work with

 

[b0mbrman]

From here - Text

Several called McCain their hero and said they planned to vote for him despite having supported Sen. Hillary Clinton in the primary.

"I'm a Democrat," said one woman. "But we're not happy with the choice of Senator Obama. Give me a bipartisan ticket ... give me something to work with to switch. I will vote Republican if you can give me a reason."

That's how a lot of us are feeling. We don't need to be totally convinced; we just need enough that we don't hate ourselves down the line...