Christmas is White Supremacy in Action

[JSt0rm]

Seems like just uppity enough for people to dismiss a cause entirely should they choose without facing any challenge to their conscience.

Well thats convenient. I already told you they have been trying it that way for 20 years. You want them to be in a stasis while they are killed and looked down upon and have no economic mobility? Sounds like you enjoyed the norm and dont want it to change.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Militarization & aggression of american police is directly tied to firearm proliferation, and for good reason of self-preservation. I've never seen it so bad in another first world country.

I more blame the Iraq war which created this massive surplus of military grade hardware that local police forces happily bought at a discount. I do think the Brady Bill lapsing has some part to do with it though.

black people got pissed and arent giving a fuck about making sure white people dont feel threatened anymore.

I don't know if I would go that far. I would instead say that BLM is the first mainstream African American movement that isn't solely dependant on white guilt (translation: taking the high non-threatening road MLK style) to enact real changes in society. Instead BLM is relying on technology and the organization of the affected and those directly sympathetic rather than trying to convince the white guy who voted for Obama to feel better about himself that putting a leash on cops will make him feel better about himself too.

The timing of that shift is probably partially due to a changing demographic across America just as much as its due to conscience decisions on the part of BLM organizers. I mean, 30 years ago "minority" was basically a code word for black, but in 2016 the Hispanic and Asian minorities all fall under the same umbrella from a political standpoint. Since these minorities can't claim the history of slavery that has been the basis of America White Guilt, it basically lessons the impact of all minority focused politics in the American conscience. BLM doesn't hide behind such code words, which to white America basically translates into it being more threatening (or "racist" as so many people want to claim) but also ensures that the concerns of the BLM movement don't get swept up in the strong anti-illegal immigrant backlash we have seen in the USA (for example). The election of Obama killed the power of White Guilt, and I am glad that some people have recognized that.

Personally I hope eventually BLM has some sort of splinter group that refocuses on the police brutality issue, and eventually creates something akin to an ACLU that just focuses on the brutality of police officers. I feel like that sort of organization could bring about the maximum amount of progress in a short time because it could hurt police officers where it hurts- in their wallet via civil suits. The real advantage a young white kid has with the cops isn't just his pigment level, but the fact that his pigment level might mean he is backed by an expensive son of a bitch lawyer his daddy will pay for that will make the cop's life a living hell if he screws with that kid. If that same motivation existed for African American children- ie "I better not shoot this kid or the Black ACLU might come and ruin me"- then I think we would very quickly see a change in police forces. Right now police forces are mostly self-policing, which is why BLM keeping running into brick walls when it tries to get justice and the cop just gets suspended without pay or some hand slap like that. Put some real teeth behind screwing up and cops of all colors will think twice before they pull the trigger.

 

[werepossum]

I think that any group that focuses on a single race promoting its needs above others is misaligned and I cannot support it. I don't support BLM any more than I can support right wingers trying to take away a woman's right to choose. We have laws that apply equally to all people and a crime is a crime regardless of who the involved parties are. Racism has many faces and BLM is just another among them. I see BLM as the new Klan.

BLM started with good intentions, and although Michael Brown was certainly the wrong person to rally around the institutional racism felt by the black community from the police in Ferguson and across the country was real. It's unfortunately derailed from this though and instead turned into a racist movement blaming whitey for everything and is full of people out seeking "persecution" so that they can feel part of it too.

I agree with both the above to a degree, but I'd also liken BLM to GamerGate. Both are big enough and amorphous enough that on any given day, one can probably find someone saying something abysmally stupid and offensive in their names, in the hopes of coattail support for an otherwise losing battle. Therefore while I'm not a fan of BLM in general, neither am I going to get especially bent over some random idiot trying to morph it into her own left wing, anti-capitalist racist platform.

 

[agent00f]

I more blame the Iraq war which created this massive surplus of military grade hardware that local police forces happily bought at a discount. I do think the Brady Bill lapsing has some part to do with it though.

I mean aggression in general of the cops here, somewhat understandable given just about anyone can be packing heat, which naturally leads to an arms race.

 

[poofyhairguy]

I mean aggression in general of the cops here, somewhat understandable given just about anyone can be packing heat, which naturally leads to an arms race.

I don't know if I completely buy that. I mean, even under the Brady Bill people could pack heat. In fact that bill's arbitrary limits on clip capacity pushed people to larger caliber guns (why get a 9mm when a 45mm legally carries the same number of bullets?). We can see that gun violence took a drop after the Brady Bill lapsed in 2004:

What I think happened is 9/11, and the huge amount of sympathy for cops that followed 9/11, emboldened police forces and made them feel justified in being separated some from the community they serve. That combined with the Iraq War gave those forces access to military grade weapons, and took away any sort of social responsibility that would keep cops from running to those weapons.

What I think the Brady Bill lapsing did is normalize a more "serious" class of weapon if you will. I mean, if the local Bubba takes what in 1999 was a military only gun to a range every weekend what is so wrong with the police forces having them? Also the lapsing of that bill obvious had a direct effect on violence in Mexico, which hardened a lot of police forces (especially border ones) who didn't want to see that level of societal instability spill over the border.

 

[MooseNSquirrel]

If we are to believe the progressives, yes - because "America invented slavery."
http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/29719/

*sigh*

Nutjobs.

Speaking of nutjobs, try and stay on top of conversation threads before inserting unrelated incoherent ramblings that masquerade as a point of view.

 

[Iron Woode]

I'm confused, was America responsible for any of your family's suffering?

no, dumbass.

I made that very clear in my post.

 

[agent00f]

I don't know if I completely buy that. I mean, even under the Brady Bill people could pack heat. In fact that bill's arbitrary limits on clip capacity pushed people to larger caliber guns (why get a 9mm when a 45mm legally carries the same number of bullets?). We can see that gun violence took a drop after the Brady Bill lapsed in 2004:

What I think happened is 9/11, and the huge amount of sympathy for cops that followed 9/11, emboldened police forces and made them feel justified in being separated some from the community they serve. That combined with the Iraq War gave those forces access to military grade weapons, and took away any sort of social responsibility that would keep cops from running to those weapons.

What I think the Brady Bill lapsing did is normalize a more "serious" class of weapon if you will. I mean, if the local Bubba takes what in 1999 was a military only gun to a range every weekend what is so wrong with the police forces having them? Also the lapsing of that bill obvious had a direct effect on violence in Mexico, which hardened a lot of police forces (especially border ones) who didn't want to see that level of societal instability spill over the border.

I think it's generally a gradual consequence of the war on drugs (ie armed gangs), which is itself a consequence of trying to put black people away post civil rights. Something similar but less degree is supposedly going down in the muslim parts of france (also a result of importing cheap labor).

 

[interchange]

Well thats convenient. I already told you they have been trying it that way for 20 years. You want them to be in a stasis while they are killed and looked down upon and have no economic mobility? Sounds like you enjoyed the norm and dont want it to change.

I am sad to see you think this of me. I realize that you do not know me personally, so you cannot see whom I serve every day in my career, and you do not know the neighborhood I live in, you do not know the activities I participate in outside of AnandTech, etc.

But, nonetheless, this attribution is illustrating my point. By even abstractly hinting at realistic feelings regarding race, I have been handed a crucifix.

Someone here in another thread was calling for another MLK. I am not certain that there is a line left to toe between being uppity and being ignored for this to happen. It would be a shame if you think that erasing this line is in the service of the nation.

 

[agent00f]

I am sad to see you think this of me. I realize that you do not know me personally, so you cannot see whom I serve every day in my career, and you do not know the neighborhood I live in, you do not know the activities I participate in outside of AnandTech, etc.

But, nonetheless, this attribution is illustrating my point. By even abstractly hinting at realistic feelings regarding race, I have been handed a crucifix.

Someone here in another thread was calling for another MLK. I am not certain that there is a line left to toe between being uppity and being ignored for this to happen. It would be a shame if you think that erasing this line is in the service of the nation.

Had MLK lived I'm pretty sure they would've successfully painted his movement as uppity, per the actual race riots of the time. Basically a classic martyr case.

I mean, really, we had the MLK of our time, and his legacy was trump.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Had MLK lived I'm pretty sure they would've successfully painted his movement as uppity, per the actual race riots of the time. Basically a classic martyr case.

I mean, really, we had the MLK of our time, and his legacy was trump.

Seeking equality is not the same as seeking superiority and then resorting to violence when your demands are not met..

 

[agent00f]

Seeing equality is not the same as seeking superiority and then resorting to violence when your demands are not met..

That's what people in a position of superiority tend to say, let them eat cake.

 

[Puffnstuff]

That's what people in a position of superiority tend to say, let them eat cake.

When we apply the reasonable person standard to this equation it falls short on so many different levels. In law you have to apply this standard when taking the essential elements into consideration to determine what obligations were present and by/to whom they were owed. Displaying violence when your unreasonable demands are not made is criminal in nature and the resulting actions they have attracted are self inflicted.

Most of those people were too lazy to learn in school and now want to blame others for their own lack of motivations and short sightedness. The fact that we have a black president right now demonstrates what happens when a person applies themselves not to mention that his wife also has a law degree speaks volumes. Stop using race as an excuse for not advancing in life as there are too many examples to the contrary.

Professional excuse makers do not go anywhere in life but down.

 

[agent00f]

When we apply the reasonable person standard to this equation it falls short on so many different levels. In law you have to apply this standard when taking the essential elements into consideration to determine what obligations were present and by/to whom they were owed. Displaying violence when your unreasonable demands are not made is criminal in nature and the resulting actions they have attracted are self inflicted.

Most of those people were too lazy to learn in school and now want to blame others for their own lack of motivations and short sightedness. The fact that we have a black president right now demonstrates what happens when a person applies themselves not to mention that his wife also has a law degree speaks volumes. Stop using race as an excuse for not advancing in life as there are too many examples to the contrary.

Professional excuse makers do not go anywhere in life but down.

If them blacks weren't so dumb and lazy they'd be collecting white rural handouts, lol.

 

[interchange]

The fantasy that we are going to achieve equality undermines our ability to achieve progress.

Almost as much as the fantasy that we can absolve ourselves from racial discrimination undermines our ability to strive for that goal.

 

[WelshBloke]

That was some nuclear levels of projection there, snowflake!
Everything you've accused me of is what your side does by default!

Yet he managed to describe you specifically (and pretty accurately) whereas you had to use some vague "your side" bullshit.

You do that a lot. Someone criticises something that you, specifically, have said on this forum and you counter with "well thats probably what someone that I've decided to add to some arbitrary group that I've decided to make you part of would also do".

 

[WelshBloke]

Dude, you live in an entire world of straw.

This is very true.

 

[Puffnstuff]

The fantasy that we are going to achieve equality undermines our ability to achieve progress.

Almost as much as the fantasy that we can absolve ourselves from racial discrimination undermines our ability to strive for that goal.

Here in reality we have this thing called the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which includes all of the subsequent amendments, and contained therein is something called Title VII. This requires equality in all employment actions across all control groups. When an employer creates standards for a particular position any person who meets that criteria has a shot at getting the job. When you fail to do something about your circumstances, such as go to school and get a degree, then you cannot say anything beyond that you failed to meet the criteria for that position. Stop promoting pure manure.

 

[interchange]

Here in reality we have this thing called the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which includes all of the subsequent amendments, and contained therein is something called Title VII. This requires equality in all employment actions across all control groups. When an employer creates standards for a particular position any person who meets that criteria has a shot at getting the job.

Is it really your position that discrimination does not exist?

When you fail to do something about your circumstances, such as go to school and get a degree, then you cannot say anything beyond that you failed to meet the criteria for that position.

You will not find a bigger advocate on this board for recognizing the degree of squandered opportunity by individuals in this country.

But, because a black person may have squandered opportunity, it does not mean that they have been granted the same degree of opportunity to begin with.

These are two separate evils. Stop combining them.

 

[agent00f]

The fantasy that we are going to achieve equality undermines our ability to achieve progress.

Almost as much as the fantasy that we can absolve ourselves from racial discrimination undermines our ability to strive for that goal.

The "problem" from another perspective is really that half the populace have come to expect progress within their lifetime in modern society. Personally I think the general ratio of liberalism to conservatism has always been similar, we've just become accustomed to the left winning in ever short timespans. Now we're disappointed that the first female candidate didn't win due to a quirk of the EC.

Just look at what happened for the longest time before emancipation, compared to that to deseg, and from that to obama. I imagine even the staunchest liberal from back in the day would be absolutely shocked at the progress.

 

[pcgeek11]

pcgeek11 - dweeb - "blacks need to use the bootstraps.txt"

I never said that.

 

[interchange]

The "problem" from another perspective is really that half the populace have come to expect progress within their lifetime in modern society. Personally I think the general ratio of liberalism to conservatism has always been similar, we've just become accustomed to the left winning in ever short timespans. Now we're disappointed that the first female candidate didn't win due to a quirk of the EC.

Just look at what happened for the longest time before emancipation, compared to that to deseg, and from that to obama. I imagine even the staunchest liberal from back in the day would be absolutely shocked at the progress.

The problem is that we are seeing each other as different instead of the same with some differences. And here is the result:
http://www.realclearscience.com/jou...isanship_in_three_stunning_charts_109196.html

 

[bshole]

The fantasy that we are going to achieve equality undermines our ability to achieve progress.

Almost as much as the fantasy that we can absolve ourselves from racial discrimination undermines our ability to strive for that goal.

So Asian Americans will ALWAYS do better than White Americans? The gap between Asians and Whites is substantial. I personally put this down to culture and that we are importing the very best engineers/scientists and doctors from Asia. I see a future dominated by Asians and I don't see that as a bad thing. I just hope they do not adapt the bad habits of the rest of us.

http://static5.businessinsider.com/image/523890bd69beddb020d28248-800-/screen shot 2013-09-17 at 1.22.26 pm.png

 

[interchange]

So Asian Americans will ALWAYS do better than White Americans? The gap between Asians and Whites is substantial. I personally put this down to culture and that we are importing the very best engineers/scientists and doctors from Asia. I see a future dominated by Asians and I don't see that as a bad thing. I just hope they do not adapt the bad habits of the rest of us.

Having a worked as an engineer prior to becoming a doctor, I take exception to your characterization of Asian superiority.

Aside from the joke, the notion of "better" is an artificial one. All I am saying is that the notion of "different" will always be there, and along with that will come with stereotypes, biases, cultural separation, etc. These are "faults" of the human condition. Now...when "different" has been thought of in terms of "good" and "bad" for centuries of culture, the result is deep-seeded institutional and cultural reinforcement of this paradigm. And that requires challenge.

Except we can't fully challenge it if we aren't free to be honest about it (even within ourselves).

And we can't expect to be fully successful. Just better.

 

[agent00f]

The problem is that we are seeing each other as different instead of the same with some differences. And here is the result:
http://www.realclearscience.com/jou...isanship_in_three_stunning_charts_109196.html

That's realistically just a better strategy to the political game, and thus a natural outcome of competitive survival instincts. Ie if you can get your guys to never cross lines and other guys do; no reason to lose out of principle. There's also realistically a greater difference between 1950's gop vs 1950's dem compared to the current 1950's gop vs 2016 dem.