Christian Folk.. Sup With This?

[Skyclad1uhm1]

Only a fool judges a religion by the people who practice it.

Then how about judging it by the humans who wrote the fairytales, or the humans that picked the ones which suited them best?

The whole 'When Jesus came the old laws changed where they don't suit our needs in arguments with others!' argument is just another way of saying you want to do whatever you want and don't want to bother with anything from the old testament that you don't like.

 

[William Gaatjes]

My understanding is that Christians see the Old Testament as background. Jesus came to Earth to and changed the game in the New Testament. So pointing out bad stuff in the Old Testament doesn't really accomplish anything.

As for the second quote it's mostly protestants that bend over backwards to make this mean something else. I think it's pretty clear Jesus was a hippie.

My understanding is that Jesus if existed, he was a revolutionary. He did not like what he experienced around him and as such tried to change (his local environment)the world into a better place. The same goes for Muhammad and other messiah like figures. They thought the world was wrong and tried to change it. There have been countless people doing so but all for the same reason. Most fail some to a degree succeed. But only after the messiah like figures died, the original message was corrupted. And that is normal in a world of endless change.

Any of the texts must be read and understood with the spirit of the time and the culture at that time, the text is referring to. During those days, the texts make sense. Now, they are the words of a poet who we would declare asocial and violent. So you see. The world does seem to chance for the better slowly. It is that issue of not forcing changes upon people but making them see and realize themselves. A closed and locked mind cannot be filled with fresh views of the world.

 

[rudeguy]

"When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property." Exodus 21:20-21

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." Mark 10:25


So I guess my question is.. do we take the Bible literally? Move this to off-topic or wherever if it doesn't belong here.

you are looking at the difference between the Old Testament and New.

Old was more about history and setting a bunch of rules that no one could possibly fulfill. God was pretty much putting the smack down on the Jews. The New is about humility and love.

 

[sandorski]

The Bible is like MySpace Angles. It says different things depending on how you look at it.

 

[DominionSeraph]

For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God.

That doesn't help. That just means they can beat their slave to death on the first day and be fine.

 

[MrEgo]

you are looking at the difference between the Old Testament and New.

Old was more about history and setting a bunch of rules that no one could possibly fulfill. God was pretty much putting the smack down on the Jews. The New is about humility and love.

So do Christians include the Old Testament in their teachings, or do they just take what's convenient to take out of it?

 

[RightIsWrong]

Example:

While I do not believe in Zeus et al, I do not go out of my way to disparage another's beliefs unless they ask my thoughts on a religious matter.

uh.....the OP asked for people's thought on this particular religion. They are abiding by the same rules that you set for yourself and are now calling them "anti-Christian" over.

 

[Fear No Evil]

I could respect this type of position on religion if people like the OP did not just seem to focus on Christians. Why don't we have any threads referring to Muhammed as Zeus? Why not any posts in the Mosque threads saying Islam is a fairy tail? Why not any posts about how the Quran is a made up book?

Show us how enlightened you are and post a picture of Muhammed and Zeus on it and post your name and address with it. You believe so strongly against religion surely you would do it to show your beliefs?

 

[JD50]

Do people who believe in Zeus shape public policy where you live?

I thought you voted for Obama?

 

[Macamus Prime]

by slave the bible meant a 133mhz Pentium running windows 95

Holy shit, this is the 1st time these boards made me laugh.

:thumbsup:

 

[glenn1]

So do Christians include the Old Testament in their teachings, or do they just take what's convenient to take out of it?

You're simply ignoring what others have said, that Jesus gave new teachings that rendered much of the old law irrelevant to the way he instructed believers to live. You're missing the insight that something can both be true and no longer as pertinent to you because circumstances (or your life) have changed. If it's cold in the morning and your mother tells you to put a jacket on, does that make her wrong if later in the day it warms up and you can return to short sleeves?

 

[kashwashwa]

You're simply ignoring what others have said, that Jesus gave new teachings that rendered much of the old law irrelevant to the way he instructed believers to live. You're missing the insight that something can both be true and no longer as pertinent to you because circumstances (or your life) have changed. If it's cold in the morning and your mother tells you to put a jacket on, does that make her wrong if later in the day it warms up and you can return to short sleeves?

Exactly, the law given to the Israelites was no longer the law to Christ's followers. The principles behind the Mosaic Law still remained though.

 

[piasabird]

In the second quote, the eye of the needle mentioned is a gate in the jerusalem wall just the size for a man to walk through. In biblical times everyone knew this was the reference. So for a camel to get through this gate or entrance you had to unload the camel and then move all your goods through the gate, then get the camel to squat down and crawl through the gate. Then of course you had to reload your camel.

You might know this if you ever took a bible study class. Some topics in the bible can be literaly translated, but it may take some interprtation to understand them.

The eye of the needle is a real place, not some figment of someone's imagination.

Slavery was legal in biblical times and it was legal in the 1800's in United States. Maybe they had a humane society back then and they could punish people for beating their animals as well as human slaves. The romans had slaves, the egyptians had slaves and the greeks had slaves. That does not make it right, it just means it was a fact of life.

Often people write things down as part of the historical record in hope that when we read them later, we can learn from their mistakes and not make their mistakes. Often in the Bible God gives people what they want just to show his followers how stupid they are. People are stubborn and tend to learn things the hard way.

 

[kashwashwa]

In the second quote, the eye of the needle mentioned is a gate in the jerusalem wall just the size for a man to walk through. In biblical times everyone knew this was the reference. So for a camel to get through this gate or entrance you had to unload the camel and then move all your goods through the gate, then get the camel to squat down and crawl through the gate. Then of course you had to reload your camel.

You might know this if you ever took a bible study class. Some topics in the bible can be literaly translated, but it may take some interprtation to understand them.

The eye of the needle is a real place, not some figment of someone's imagination.

This is incorrect.

rha·phis′ was the greek word used for needle in the original Greek text (used in both Matthews and Marks accounts). be·lo′ne is used in Lukes, which refers to a surgical needle.

Jesus was simply using the camel and needle's eye to emphasize how impossible it was.

 

[nageov3t]

the vast majority of Christians do not read the bible as a literal, historic document.

that was pretty much the first thing we were taught in high school religion classes (the same catholic school that also taught evolution /shocked)

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

This. Always and every time this.

Oh, look- we have a cave troll.

http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm

 

[MrEgo]

In the second quote, the eye of the needle mentioned is a gate in the jerusalem wall just the size for a man to walk through. In biblical times everyone knew this was the reference. So for a camel to get through this gate or entrance you had to unload the camel and then move all your goods through the gate, then get the camel to squat down and crawl through the gate. Then of course you had to reload your camel.

You might know this if you ever took a bible study class. Some topics in the bible can be literaly translated, but it may take some interprtation to understand them.

The eye of the needle is a real place, not some figment of someone's imagination.

Slavery was legal in biblical times and it was legal in the 1800's in United States. Maybe they had a humane society back then and they could punish people for beating their animals as well as human slaves. The romans had slaves, the egyptians had slaves and the greeks had slaves. That does not make it right, it just means it was a fact of life.

Often people write things down as part of the historical record in hope that when we read them later, we can learn from their mistakes and not make their mistakes. Often in the Bible God gives people what they want just to show his followers how stupid they are. People are stubborn and tend to learn things the hard way.

Obviously, slavery is wrong, but it is also apparent that the Bible accepts it. Can you clarify what it means when people say that the Bible is the word of God? That's not a rhetorical question.

 

[MrEgo]

Well, here's one from the New Testament:

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Well, here's one from the New Testament:

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

If you look at Ephesians 6 you'll see the obligation goes both ways.

One thing to consider (and it's not just regarding the bible) is that it's easy to fall into the "obviously slavery is wrong" trap. By our standards is it, but back ages ago it would not have been. Slavery was the economic basis for civilization. You can say it was wrong and I certainly would not like to see it return, however historical context really isn't optional in an objective analysis of other civilizations. Every civilization you can think of was built upon it. We wouldn't be having this conversation because we wouldn't have our own today. We built upon the Roman and Greek worlds which depended on getting things done and they didn't have machines. Animals were good for only a few things. That left people and having them do what they might not want to.

That of course is also somewhat simplistic. The reasons for slavery extended beyond that of course. It was also for punishment, entertainment, a great many things which were unrelated to getting work done. The treatment of slaves also varied greatly. They could be well treated, given proper food and rest, or they could be beaten, starved or often killed just because they were property. The bottom line is that slavery was the electricity, computers, oil and coal of the day. In a biblical context the emphasis was on humane treatment not abolition.

 

[MrEgo]

If you look at Ephesians 6 you'll see the obligation goes both ways.

One thing to consider (and it's not just regarding the bible) is that it's easy to fall into the "obviously slavery is wrong" trap. By our standards is it, but back ages ago it would not have been. Slavery was the economic basis for civilization. You can say it was wrong and I certainly would not like to see it return, however historical context really isn't optional in an objective analysis of other civilizations. Every civilization you can think of was built upon it. We wouldn't be having this conversation because we wouldn't have our own today. We built upon the Roman and Greek worlds which depended on getting things done and they didn't have machines. Animals were good for only a few things. That left people and having them do what they might not want to.

That of course is also somewhat simplistic. The reasons for slavery extended beyond that of course. It was also for punishment, entertainment, a great many things which were unrelated to getting work done. The treatment of slaves also varied greatly. They could be well treated, given proper food and rest, or they could be beaten, starved or often killed just because they were property. The bottom line is that slavery was the electricity, computers, oil and coal of the day. In a biblical context the emphasis was on humane treatment not abolition.

I see what you're saying. Times do change. However, if a religion is going to base their teachings off of a book that supports slavery, I'm not ok with that religion. If "God" thinks that slavery is ok, then I'm not cool with God. If God didn't think it was ok, then that book is not the word of God.

 

[ericlp]

well, the real truth is ... you truly aren't gonna get into heaven if your rich. Money is the root of evil today. So all these fuckers like Bush and his followers are surely going to hell. Along with anyone who voted for him.

I see this had no relationship to P/N so I thought I'd give it a good reason now.

 

[ericlp]

Holy shit, this is the 1st time these boards made me laugh.

:thumbsup:

You should start reading P/N more. There are good laughs in here almost daily!

 

[ericlp]

The Bible is like MySpace Angles. It says different things depending on how you look at it.

Well, that depends on what version you reading from since man wrote it, he's gonna revise it. I think it's got a long way to go. I'm waiting for Version 1 million. If god did not exit it would be necessary for man to invent him.

 

[silverpig]

While I do not believe in Zeus et al, I do not go out of my way to disparage another's beliefs unless they ask my thoughts on a religious matter.

I'd love to have a :beer; with you some time

 

[jonks]

The bible is a fictional book written by uncivilzed idiots.

Why would you take it seriously? That's ridiculous.

If a person was learned enough to read/write back then, they were very unlikely to be an idiot. Uncivilized? A relative term. Perhaps uncivilized compared to most modern countries, but a civilization a thousand years from now (and likely a lot sooner) would probably consider us barbaric. Think Star Trek.

Take it seriously, I see no reason not to. But take it literally? Now that requires idiocy.