Cell Phone Companies Selling location Data

[realibrad]

So where are we with the app that makes your phone untracable?

 

[ch33zw1z]

So where are we with the app that makes your phone untracable?

It's a mind trick

 

[realibrad]

It's a mind trick

Oh, so I gotta take some LSD, get a hat made out of used tinfoil and diapers while chanting.

He seemed so confident that there was an app.

 

[realibrad]

To the topic, there really is no way to hide your location when the design of the technology is the way it is. I had brought this up before, but, basically you will always be able to extrapolate at the very least. So in the case of a network, you can get a pretty good idea of where someone is just by the cell towers the device is in range of.

What gets even more worrying is AI and what it can do with data. Take a picture and AI can extrapolate time, location, and other people around. It then can connect that data to other data and build a profile of the user(s). As the AI gets more data, it builds a better profile. Its how google knows where you work, when you leave for work, and how long your expected commute will be.

Further, if you use chrome, which most do, Google can then associate your PC activity with your phone activity. Everything gets added together and the profile google has on your is very complete. So as personal data becomes more valuable, Google and others are going to track and keep more data about you.

 

[ch33zw1z]

To the topic, there really is no way to hide your location when the design of the technology is the way it is. I had brought this up before, but, basically you will always be able to extrapolate at the very least. So in the case of a network, you can get a pretty good idea of where someone is just by the cell towers the device is in range of.

What gets even more worrying is AI and what it can do with data. Take a picture and AI can extrapolate time, location, and other people around. It then can connect that data to other data and build a profile of the user(s). As the AI gets more data, it builds a better profile. Its how google knows where you work, when you leave for work, and how long your expected commute will be.

Further, if you use chrome, which most do, Google can then associate your PC activity with your phone activity. Everything gets added together and the profile google has on your is very complete. So as personal data becomes more valuable, Google and others are going to track and keep more data about you.

Sure, that's how it works, bit it's all optional. I don't have to use Google for anything.

Making it by without a cell phone nowadays is very difficult and it's essentially living "off the grid".

When Google operates and ISP, I would expect them to follow the same rules we USED to apply to ISP's before the current FCC changes their status. Now it's a free for all, #dealwithit.

 

[cytg111]

Interesting. I have many different thoughts on this.

First, seems to be mitigated in newer technologies. Raw GSM was particularly vulnerable.

Second, yea....privacy issues galore. LEO's should have access to legitimate mobile towers in select cases, but this is way overboard. I vageuly remember reading about this years ago, and it's just one of the things that really turns me off when we discuss real freedom versus illusion of freedom in USA

Third, build one of those in the states and you're probably looking at jail time or getting hired by an intelligence agency.

More thoughts, but I'll stop for now until I collect them, I won't have time to really dig through that until later.

My thoughts were just to collect the ID's, not try and intercept any calls .. If its in the ether its free right? .. Id cross reference it with my video surveillance to a get a more detailed perspective of whats going on around my house/ground .

 

[cytg111]

Tech-ch33z says super awesome. But fast forward to today, even locating the phone via this method will not guarantee LEO's can access the phone

Privacy-ch33z says fuck that.

Actually, Apples stance on that one, have me switching from Android to Iphone the next round. We may still get buttfucked but at least Apple uses protection. And then again, ability to not take out the battery... goddamnit.

 

[realibrad]

Sure, that's how it works, bit it's all optional. I don't have to use Google for anything.

Making it by without a cell phone nowadays is very difficult and it's essentially living "off the grid".

When Google operates and ISP, I would expect them to follow the same rules we USED to apply to ISP's before the current FCC changes their status. Now it's a free for all, #dealwithit.

That is the thing, even if you don't use anything Google, you can still be tracked. Get caught in a picture from someone, and you are logged. Someone calls you, that is tracked.

AI is not limited. Voice, appearance, lighting can all be used. People tag you in something, and it can be used. Its going to give less of a complete profile, but, there is still lots of data to be had.

I get wanting to regulate this, I just don't see a long term solution. As AI is further refined, privacy is gone.

 

[realibrad]

Actually, Apples stance on that one, have me switching from Android to Iphone the next round. We may still get buttfucked but at least Apple uses protection. And then again, ability to not take out the battery... goddamnit.

The state just has to go to a 3rd party to get the data. Its just that they can't go directly to Apple to get the data, but, make no mistake that they get the data.

There is a reason that Apple has to have their servers in China for Chinese phones. There is more way to access the data beyond the actual phone.

 

[cytg111]

So where are we with the app that makes your phone untracable?

*waves hand* - Not the droid you are looking for.

- geddid? Droid? sigh...

 

[cytg111]

The state just has to go to a 3rd party to get the data. Its just that they can't go directly to Apple to get the data, but, make no mistake that they get the data.

There is a reason that Apple has to have their servers in China for Chinese phones. There is more way to access the data beyond the actual phone.

Look, if NSA or whatever wants to peep my phone, fine ... Some local rentacop? I dont think so.

 

[cytg111]

That is the thing, even if you don't use anything Google, you can still be tracked. Get caught in a picture from someone, and you are logged. Someone calls you, that is tracked.

AI is not limited. Voice, appearance, lighting can all be used. People tag you in something, and it can be used. Its going to give less of a complete profile, but, there is still lots of data to be had.

I get wanting to regulate this, I just don't see a long term solution. As AI is further refined, privacy is gone.

One should consider joining a theatre, get good at disguises and makeup.
And I am just a guy with nothing to hide. Jfc.

 

[realibrad]

*waves hand* - Not the droid you are looking for.

- geddid? Droid? sigh...

It made me smile.

 

[realibrad]

Look, if NSA or whatever wants to peep my phone, fine ... Some local rentacop? I dont think so.

No no, not the NSA. We are talking about private companies. The story about how the cops wanted access to the Apple data ended when a 3rd party private company offered to crack the phone for them. Its not some huge firm either.

 

[realibrad]

One should consider joining a theatre, get good at disguises and makeup.
And I am just a guy with nothing to hide. Jfc.

A good AI is going to bypass that makeup unless you go hard core.

Remember, an AI can see shapes in a way we cant. It can see the patters in your eyes. The way you walk, talk, act. Its all a future that is terrifying, and I see no solution.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Actually, Apples stance on that one, have me switching from Android to Iphone the next round. We may still get buttfucked but at least Apple uses protection. And then again, ability to not take out the battery... goddamnit.

Yeah I look at it like google is essentially an advertising company, Apple is a hardware/software company.
I’ve always found apple spy’s on you in a less creepy way.
Oddly Microsoft spied on you the least sadly window phone is no longer an option.

 

[ch33zw1z]

That is the thing, even if you don't use anything Google, you can still be tracked. Get caught in a picture from someone, and you are logged. Someone calls you, that is tracked.

AI is not limited. Voice, appearance, lighting can all be used. People tag you in something, and it can be used. Its going to give less of a complete profile, but, there is still lots of data to be had.

I get wanting to regulate this, I just don't see a long term solution. As AI is further refined, privacy is gone.

GDPR style regulation is a good start. What you're talking about is not using Google, but using something else like Facebook. My MIL always asks before posting pictures of the kiddos or my wife/me, because we've discussed privacy.

Doing nothing is an option, but not one I support. The first step is voting for people or can comprehend what we're discussing and will push for privacy protections.

The only part of your post I disagree with is what to do/not to do.

 

[realibrad]

GDPR style regulation is a good start. What you're talking about is not using Google, but using something else like Facebook. My MIL always asks before posting pictures of the kiddos or my wife/me, because we've discussed privacy.

Doing nothing is an option, but not one I support. The first step is voting for people or can comprehend what we're discussing and will push for privacy protections.

The only part of your post I disagree with is what to do/not to do.

FB has AI, but, Google has what most consider the most developed AI. Everything that FB can do, Google does better.

Google has access to a lot of the same data FB has access too. The difference is that FB is limited to using data from its services. Google has access to different services, but, in my opinion far more of a broad set of services. Mobile OS, Browsers on PC and mobile, + all other services that FB basically has. What makes AI special is how it then connects all those things together and then can predict what will come from that.

You go to CVS, use Google pay. Google now has your trip data, your purchase data. It also has your data on the symptoms you Googled. Together it predicts that you have a sick child with the Flu. It then does this with all its users and puts that type of data up against what the CDC does. Turns out, what took the CDC a week to do Google can do in less than 24 hours. Google's AI when pointed at a problem the CDC has been working for years, was able to smash it in efficiency.

Google's AI was then pointed at data NASA had. NASA had been going over the data, but, when Google's AI was given that data, it found tons of planets and other things that NASA missed.

Then realize that this AI has been looking at our personal data. Gmail, Android, Chrome ect.

 

[ch33zw1z]

FB has AI, but, Google has what most consider the most developed AI. Everything that FB can do, Google does better.

Google has access to a lot of the same data FB has access too. The difference is that FB is limited to using data from its services. Google has access to different services, but, in my opinion far more of a broad set of services. Mobile OS, Browsers on PC and mobile, + all other services that FB basically has. What makes AI special is how it then connects all those things together and then can predict what will come from that.

You go to CVS, use Google pay. Google now has your trip data, your purchase data. It also has your data on the symptoms you Googled. Together it predicts that you have a sick child with the Flu. It then does this with all its users and puts that type of data up against what the CDC does. Turns out, what took the CDC a week to do Google can do in less than 24 hours. Google's AI when pointed at a problem the CDC has been working for years, was able to smash it in efficiency.

Google's AI was then pointed at data NASA had. NASA had been going over the data, but, when Google's AI was given that data, it found tons of planets and other things that NASA missed.

Then realize that this AI has been looking at our personal data. Gmail, Android, Chrome ect.

Ok, again, you're not telling me stuff I don't know and disagree with. But if you want to continue so other readers know what's up, fine.

But, you bring up NASA and how we see what AI can do for us in a positive way.

Privacy protections for citizens don't fall to the wayside because AI can do cool stuff though.

Again, where you and I disagree is whether or not to do anything, and I support GDPR style regulation protections for consumers.

In fact, earlier in this thread you brought up the GDPR is a feel good notion, to which I replied that we can build on it.

Sorta like Germany is doing, they're targeting the biggest player directly.

 

[realibrad]

Ok, again, you're not telling me stuff I don't know and disagree with. But if you want to continue so other readers know what's up, fine.

But, you bring up NASA and how we see what AI can do for us in a positive way.

Privacy protections for citizens don't fall to the wayside because AI can do cool stuff though.

Again, where you and I disagree is whether or not to do anything, and I support GDPR style regulation protections for consumers.

In fact, earlier in this thread you brought up the GDPR is a feel good notion, to which I replied that we can build on it.

Sorta like Germany is doing, they're targeting the biggest player directly.

Oh, I don't even disagree with doing something. What I think is that right now we are so behind that we don't know what to do. The GDPR regulations will do little to nothing. The problem is so big and so hidden that we are up shit creek. A big reason for that is this stuff is just not something most people care about. Hell, most people don't believe it. They see it as a conspiracy like flat earth.

As I said before in another thread, what is most worrying is what AI can do with data that has always been reasonable to collect. I want a solution, but, I have no idea what it would be.

 

[cytg111]

No no, not the NSA. We are talking about private companies. The story about how the cops wanted access to the Apple data ended when a 3rd party private company offered to crack the phone for them. Its not some huge firm either.

Yea.. it was John Mcaffee wasnt it? He admitted later it was a joke and that he couldnt do it...

 

[cytg111]

A good AI is going to bypass that makeup unless you go hard core.

Remember, an AI can see shapes in a way we cant. It can see the patters in your eyes. The way you walk, talk, act. Its all a future that is terrifying, and I see no solution.

Its ALWAYS *just* about being one step ahead.

 

[realibrad]

Yea.. it was John Mcaffee wasnt it? He admitted later it was a joke and that he couldnt do it...

No, Israeli company.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomas...ess-any-apple-iphone-cellebrite/#3b51154f667a

Cellebrite, a Petah Tikva, Israel-based vendor that's become the U.S. government's company of choice when it comes to unlocking mobile devices, is this month telling customers its engineers currently have the ability to get around the security of devices running iOS 11 (right up to 11.2.6). That includes the iPhone X, a model that Forbes has learned was successfully raided for data by the Department for Homeland Security back in November 2017, most likely with Cellebrite technology.

So lube up and take smell of a popper, cause you are screwed no matter what.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Oh, I don't even disagree with doing something. What I think is that right now we are so behind that we don't know what to do. The GDPR regulations will do little to nothing. The problem is so big and so hidden that we are up shit creek. A big reason for that is this stuff is just not something most people care about. Hell, most people don't believe it. They see it as a conspiracy like flat earth.

As I said before in another thread, what is most worrying is what AI can do with data that has always been reasonable to collect. I want a solution, but, I have no idea what it would be.

Fair enough, I'm in agreement. I think the biggest problem is that this stuff surpasses the knowledge or care of most, including our elected officials.

I would start with GDPR and go on from there.

 

[realibrad]

Fair enough, I'm in agreement. I think the biggest problem is that this stuff surpasses the knowledge or care of most, including our elected officials.

I would start with GDPR and go on from there.

I like tech, and a lot of this stuff is still beyond me. No way someone that is not a techie person is going to be able to keep up.

I think GDPR is not a harm beyond making people believe they are safer than they are. This problem is so far from being solved, or, even understood.