Cell Phone Companies Selling location Data

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1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
You're delusional if you think the average person wouldn't be quite creeped out by this.
Money talks bullshit walks, just pass a law that people have a right to opt out of geolocation but allow the cell companies to provide a lower rate for those that opt in, and then don't be surprised how few people actually care,

just like how many Americans want the highest paying job with benefits and good working conditions along with a clean environment to live in but don't give a damn under what conditions, labor practices, and wages their products and shiny toys like cell phones are made as long as they are cheap.

foxconnNets1.jpg
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,201
18,670
146
Money talks bullshit walks, just pass a law that people have a right to opt out of geolocation but allow the cell companies to provide a lower rate for those that opt in, and then don't be surprised how few people actually care,

just like how many Americans want the highest paying job with benefits and good working conditions along with a clean environment to live in but don't give a damn under what conditions, labor practices, and wages their products and shiny toys like cell phones are made as long as they are cheap.

foxconnNets1.jpg

I would most certainly opt out. I could see them gouging those who do as well. Why would telcos allow this to happen, they have the best of both worlds now.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126

Have you?

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisation...ications-networks-and-services/location-data/

Location data is defined as:
“any data processed in an electronic communications network or by an electronic communications service indicating the geographical position of the terminal equipment of a user of a public electronic communications service, including data relating to—

(f) the latitude, longitude or altitude of the terminal equipment;
(g) the direction of travel of the user; or
(h) the time the location information was recorded”.

Are you aware that you can derive location without any of those details? With big data and AI, we can track people without those details.

Even worse.

The rules on location data are in regulation 14 and are very strict. You can only process location data if you are a public communications provider, a provider of a value-added service, or a person acting on the authority of such a provider, and only if:

  • the data is anonymous; or
  • you have the user’s consent to use it for a value-added service, and the processing is necessary for that purpose.
This regulation does not apply if the data is traffic data. See above for more information on when you can use traffic data.

There is an exemption for emergency 999 or 112 calls (regulation 16). There is also an exemption for emergency alerts where a relevant public authority needs to warn, advise or inform users or subscribers of an emergency in their location (regulation 16A).

Do you see the gaping loophole here?
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,201
18,670
146
Have you?

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisation...ications-networks-and-services/location-data/



Are you aware that you can derive location without any of those details? With big data and AI, we can track people without those details.

Even worse.



Do you see the gaping loophole here?

Yes, it specifically says the users consent. And follow the next link

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisation...nications-networks-and-services/traffic-data/

Traffic data has it's own rules as well, not lax either.

I think we can agree that GDPR style regulation is a solid step forward, giving users more control over their personal data, will be fought hard by telcos, and the USA isn't required to implement GDPR style regulation exactly as Europe has. We can make it more strict, or less, but any regulation like this has a slim chance moving forward under the current admin.

Yes, location can be determined a few ways. The difference in this case is ATT is your ISP, not just some app I can get rid of. Sure, I could switch providers, who will likely be doing the same thing.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Yes, it specifically says the users consent. And follow the next link

https://ico.org.uk/for-organisation...nications-networks-and-services/traffic-data/

Traffic data has it's own rules as well, not lax either.

I think we can agree that GDPR style regulation is a solid step forward, giving users more control over their personal data, will be fought hard by telcos, and the USA isn't required to implement GDPR style regulation exactly as Europe has. We can make it more strict, or less, but any regulation like this has a slim chance moving forward under the current admin.

Yes, location can be determined a few ways. The difference in this case is ATT is your ISP, not just some app I can get rid of. Sure, I could switch providers, who will likely be doing the same thing.

Its attempt is right, the execution is not much of a change in my opinion. With AI, the computer can derive information. The extrapolation abilities that these algorithms currently have are terrifying.

Analyze voices, scan background environment, check lighting, look for other identifiers. There is so much data out there and the abilities to link what appears to be trivial is astounding.

So, its a nice idea to think that we could protect ourselves from companies by saying they cant collect GPS data, but, there are so many more ways to track people.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,201
18,670
146
Its attempt is right, the execution is not much of a change in my opinion. With AI, the computer can derive information. The extrapolation abilities that these algorithms currently have are terrifying.

Analyze voices, scan background environment, check lighting, look for other identifiers. There is so much data out there and the abilities to link what appears to be trivial is astounding.

So, its a nice idea to think that we could protect ourselves from companies by saying they cant collect GPS data, but, there are so many more ways to track people.

Sure, so if your problem with GDPR specifically is that it's still insufficient enough to make a dent in the profiteering from personal data....then I'm with ya.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Sure, so if your problem with GDPR specifically is that it's still insufficient enough to make a dent in the profiteering from personal data....then I'm with ya.

You are worried about the profiteering? I think that is not an issue. I think the issue is privacy.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,201
18,670
146
You are worried about the profiteering? I think that is not an issue. I think the issue is privacy.

Profiteering in this context? Of course it's a concern. Privacy concerns are primary, and inherent in my obvious support for GDPR style regulation.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Profiteering in this context? Of course it's a concern. Privacy concerns are primary, and inherent in my obvious support for GDPR style regulation.

Can you explain by what you mean then, because it confuses me. That word usually has an implicit meaning of illegal, but, that would make your desire redundant by making what is already illegal illegal.

So, I'm confused because I thought you just meant making a profit from information.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,201
18,670
146
Can you explain by what you mean then, because it confuses me. That word usually has an implicit meaning of illegal, but, that would make your desire redundant by making what is already illegal illegal.

So, I'm confused because I thought you just meant making a profit from information.

Profiteering isn't implicitly illegal IMXP, and the definition says it can be illegal, but leaves it open to unfair profit.

Anyways, back to my original post that you quoted, and it seems we've explained how GDPR helps protect consumers.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
13,519
136
Everyone in my sector is screaming faul at GDPR... I am loving it.. and it was way over due.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
Profiteering isn't implicitly illegal IMXP, and the definition says it can be illegal, but leaves it open to unfair profit.

Anyways, back to my original post that you quoted, and it seems we've explained how GDPR helps protect consumers.

But what does it mean to make an unfair profit from data?

As for how it has protected consumers, no. Its an attempt to do it, but, I think it has no real effect other than to make people feel like they are protected when they are not.
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,201
18,670
146
But what does it mean to make an unfair profit from data?

As for how it has protected consumers, no. Its an attempt to do it, but, I think it has no real effect other than to make people feel like they are protected when they are not.

The handling and sale of private information without the users consent. This is not a fair practice. I'm essentially providing profit to AT&T without any consent and without any reciprocity.

I disagree. If you think GDPR is having no impact, no real affect whatsoever, then present some examples of widespread loopholes or workarounds.

The EU spent 4 years creating it, it's not just some feel good legislation. 4 years is certainly a long time considering how fast tech changes though, and if tweaks are needed, no problem.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
The handling and sale of private information without the users consent. This is not a fair practice. I'm essentially providing profit to AT&T without any consent and without any reciprocity.

I disagree. If you think GDPR is having no impact, no real affect whatsoever, then present some examples of widespread loopholes or workarounds.


I think you then need to define what private information is. When you do a google search, your ip is logged and what you looked for is associated to that IP. That information can be sold to a 3rd party, or used for targeted marketing. Is that private information?
 

ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
38,201
18,670
146
I think you then need to define what private information is. When you do a google search, your ip is logged and what you looked for is associated to that IP. That information can be sold to a 3rd party, or used for targeted marketing. Is that private information?

My take, IP is not, what you searched for is. IP specifically may not say much about who you are, but if they're collecting hardware information (which will not change unless you replace hardware) and matching that to what you do, I consider that private. That information in conjunction with the many softwares and services running on a device like a smart phone can provide a plethora of information to sell.

In context of the links you posted earlier, both location and traffic data are considered private. I mean, the GDPR defines it for us. For the record, private information and personal data are terms that are interchangeable to me.

https://www.gdpreu.org/the-regulation/key-concepts/personal-data/

As I said, I consider profit from this information without consent or reciprocity covered as "profiteering" legal or not.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
13,519
136
What complaints are you hearing? I'm in the states so and my company is largely immune from this.
The amount of resources and refactoring that companies must address to the issue in order to be compliant.. and even at that most of them are way behind schedule.. So its a time and money issue and fear of the consequences (huge ass fines) if they somehow has a "mishap". Its great. Not the fear part, we want companies to succeed but its about time the governing body took joes privacy seriously.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
The amount of resources and refactoring that companies must address to the issue in order to be compliant.. and even at that most of them are way behind schedule.. So its a time and money issue and fear of the consequences (huge ass fines) if they somehow has a "mishap". Its great. Not the fear part, we want companies to succeed but its about time the governing body took joes privacy seriously.

Ah okay, so the worry is that they might have to take some steps to protect data. Well, no real sympathy there.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,136
30,085
146
I always thought this was a no shit, sherlock type of thing?

I keep my GPS and location tracking off 95% of the time, anyway.
 

1sikbITCH

Diamond Member
Jan 3, 2001
4,194
574
126
Because its more complicated than just GPS data. I work in marketing, so I have a bit more insight into this.

Location data is far more than where your phone says you are. Data is exchanged, received for just about anything you do.

As for making people aware to make them care, yes, I disagree with that. Again, try talking to people about what data is being exchanged, and what would have to be given up to prevent that data from being exchanged.

You will likely be dismissed as a conspiracy theorist, or, dismissed because people like the services.

Sheeple gonna sheep. No accounting for stupid.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
I always thought this was a no shit, sherlock type of thing?

I keep my GPS and location tracking off 95% of the time, anyway.

Does not mean that your unable to be tracked.

https://www.androidauthority.com/tracked-gps-off-822865/

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8038870/authors?reload=true#authors

We describe PinMe, a novel user-location mechanism that exploits non-sensory/sensory data stored on the smartphone, e.g., the environment's air pressure and device's timezone, along with publicly-available auxiliary information, e.g., elevation maps, to estimate the user's location when all location services, e.g., GPS, are turned off. Unlike previously-proposed attacks, PinMe neither requires any prior knowledge about the user nor a training dataset on specific routes. We demonstrate that PinMe can accurately estimate the user's location during four activities (walking, traveling on a train, driving, and traveling on a plane).
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
This is a non issue! Truthfully who actually cares? Only those with something to hide or those who are criminals are concerned! Life goes on either way?
I truthfully do not see any negative impact on society as a whole!!
Mo ve along people - nothing to see!!
 
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cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,993
13,519
136
This is a non issue! Truthfully who actually cares? Only those with something to hide or those who are criminals are concerned! Life goes on either way?
I truthfully do not see any negative impact on society as a whole!!
Mo ve along people - nothing to see!!
Not caring about your privacy cause you got nothing to hide == not caring about freedom of speech cause you got nothing to say.
 
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