Cell Phone Companies Selling location Data

[KMFJD]

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/...ollars-located-phone-microbilt-zumigo-tmobile

T-Mobile, Sprint, and AT&T are selling access to their customers’ location data, and that data is ending up in the hands of bounty hunters and others not authorized to possess it, letting them track most phones in the country.


Good ol' greed winning again...

 

[ElFenix]

nothing wrong with that, if consumers didn't want that they're free to choose not to have phones
- ajit pai, probably

 

[dank69]

I blame the liberals.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

Someone should buy this info and start posting locations of all our Congress critters who voted to allow this data be sold.

 

[Brainonska511]

nothing wrong with that, if consumers didn't want that they're free to choose not to have phones
- ajit pai, probably

Or if they didn't like it, they shouldn't have signed those dense, multipage contracts that utterly favor the company. People can just live without cell phones, right? And if they did sign them, they can individually take on the companies via the lovely binding arbitration provision...

 

[dainthomas]

Anyone who's watched a crime drama knows that if a cop/bounty hunter is on your tail you just have to get a burner phone.

 

[Jhhnn]

Free Market, Baby! Feel the Freedumb!

I can't wait to see what happens when outfits like Cambridge Analytica & Russian troll farms add that to their resources.
They'll have the saps dialed in like never before.

Big Brother? Big Data has him beat all to hell.

 

[realibrad]

This is more than a free market issue. I don't know if the free market can solve this, but, I see the same limitations in any other structure.

Even tech people here download apps and accept that it uses location services. You are giving access to these apps to see all of your phone numbers, your location. I think the vast majority of people will simply not care, and so no regulation or oversight is going to change much. For any meaningful change, people would need to care beyond a few tech people.

 

[Jhhnn]

This is more than a free market issue. I don't know if the free market can solve this, but, I see the same limitations in any other structure.

Even tech people here download apps and accept that it uses location services. You are giving access to these apps to see all of your phone numbers, your location. I think the vast majority of people will simply not care, and so no regulation or oversight is going to change much. For any meaningful change, people would need to care beyond a few tech people.

Or our elected representatives can care enough about the welfare of the People to change things. Oh, wait... I forgot who's in charge... it's those Free Market guys. Don't be surpised if it ends up like the electronic billboards in Minority Report. Customized just for you!

 

[realibrad]

Or our elected representatives can care enough about the welfare of the People to change things. Oh, wait... I forgot who's in charge... it's those Free Market guys. Don't be surpised if it ends up like the electronic billboards in Minority Report. Customized just for you!

Those guys in charge wont care under a free market or any other market. Those guys in charge get lots of benefits from those that want our data. You can replace them, but, the value of that data stands. Those that want the data will still want to get that data.

What makes you think that if you removed the free market, that those in power would care about the welfare of the people? That is a big assumption by you.

 

[shortylickens]

I kinda sorta assumed they were doing this, so the news confirming it doesn't surprise me.
In fact google just popped up on my phone asking me to review a place I visited 4 years ago with Navigation. what I did NOT know is they track data for 4 years or more. That's actually a little spooky even for a cynic like me.

 

[Jhhnn]

Those guys in charge wont care under a free market or any other market. Those guys in charge get lots of benefits from those that want our data. You can replace them, but, the value of that data stands. Those that want the data will still want to get that data.

What makes you think that if you removed the free market, that those in power would care about the welfare of the people? That is a big assumption by you.

That's entirely circular. Denying those who have such data the right to distribute it for profit would be an infringement on the free market, kinda like how they can't sell your health records. It's a doable thing, but obviously not with the GOP in charge.

 

[realibrad]

That's entirely circular. Denying those who have such data the right to distribute it for profit would be an infringement on the free market, kinda like how they can't sell your health records. It's a doable thing, but obviously not with the GOP in charge.

First, tell me why you think those in power will start caring if the free market is changed. Second, the GOP has not always been in charge and the Dems have not seemed to care about this issue either.

As for the medical records, that is actually easier. Its very clear what is a medical record. Regulating marketing data is a lot more murky.

I work in marketing and the amount of data people hand over is amazing. Removing the right to sell and distribute marketing data is a nonstarter. You would break the vast majority of revenue streams for the online world.

 

[realibrad]

I kinda sorta assumed they were doing this, so the news confirming it doesn't surprise me.
In fact google just popped up on my phone asking me to review a place I visited 4 years ago with Navigation. what I did NOT know is they track data for 4 years or more. That's actually a little spooky even for a cynic like me.

Do you have timeline turned on? Every month I get a history report of where my phone has gone. It shows every place I went, how long I traveled, how long I spent there. It also knows where I work by looking at where I go in the morning. It knows what my work schedule is and gives me traffic updates for my commute going to and coming from work. It also scans my gmail and knows when I have a flight. It then lets me know when I should leave my current location to make it to the airport.

 

[woolfe9998]

Those guys in charge wont care under a free market or any other market. Those guys in charge get lots of benefits from those that want our data. You can replace them, but, the value of that data stands. Those that want the data will still want to get that data.

What makes you think that if you removed the free market, that those in power would care about the welfare of the people? That is a big assumption by you.

You're right, they don't give a rat's ass, because it isn't their job to give a rat's ass. That's why government, whose job it is to protect the people, must implement regulations to prevent it. It's those who cry over "interfering with the free market" - i.e. those politicians who refuse to ever vote against their campaign donors, who are standing in the way.

 

[realibrad]

You're right, they don't give a rat's ass, because it isn't their job to give a rat's ass. That's why government, whose job it is to protect the people, must implement regulations to prevent it. It's those who cry over "interfering with the free market" - i.e. those politicians who refuse to ever vote against their campaign donors, who are standing in the way.

How can you implement regulation when the government has no incentive to regulate?

Most people do not care, and so, nothing is likely to change. Try talking to a non tech person about all the data companies have access to, and then tell them all the things they would have to give up.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

As a former wireless guy I remember a video Nokia showed at an event around 2000.
Video was a bunch of young women shopping at a mall and getting promotions sms/texted to them as they walked by stores, they split up and were sending pictures of shoes and dresses to each other, another shared a short video of her getting her makeup done.
They all had these freaky looking phones (at that time) the phones looked like gameboys with big screens. They could look up and see where each person was in the mall on a mini map.
They ordered some food and made reservations at a restaurant from one of the phones.

Nokia’s prediction was pretty accurate except nobody is using a Nokia device to do this stuff.

I remember being terrified that in the near future my boss could look at his phone and see I’m taking his conference call from the bathroom.

 

[Jhhnn]

First, tell me why you think those in power will start caring if the free market is changed. Second, the GOP has not always been in charge and the Dems have not seemed to care about this issue either.

As for the medical records, that is actually easier. Its very clear what is a medical record. Regulating marketing data is a lot more murky.

I work in marketing and the amount of data people hand over is amazing. Removing the right to sell and distribute marketing data is a nonstarter. You would break the vast majority of revenue streams for the online world.

Cell phone location data, the subject of this thread, is easily defined. People have no idea how much of their lives is revealed through data analysis already, as you say. It's quite remarkable-

https://www.businessinsider.com/the...-target-exposed-a-teen-girls-pregnancy-2012-2

So what happens when we apply that to something like guns, hunting licenses & etc, for example?

 

[woolfe9998]

How can you implement regulation when the government has no incentive to regulate?

Most people do not care, and so, nothing is likely to change. Try talking to a non tech person about all the data companies have access to, and then tell them all the things they would have to give up.

"Most people don't care" because most people don't know. Are you seriously arguing that people in general would not care that their location data is being sold to whoever the hell wants it, including bill collectors and stalkers?

Why should I have to "give up" having a cell phone if I don't want the provider selling my location data? Why not just legally preclude the data from being sold?

 

[realibrad]

Cell phone location data, the subject of this thread, is easily defined. People have no idea how much of their lives is revealed through data analysis already, as you say. It's quite remarkable-

https://www.businessinsider.com/the...-target-exposed-a-teen-girls-pregnancy-2012-2

So what happens when we apply that to something like guns, hunting licenses & etc, for example?

So how do you make that illegal? Its AI predicting things from data that is perfectly valid. There are multiple ways to get data, and its reasonable to want it. The problem is that we are in the information age and computers are a thing.

Google works with the CDC.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/google-flu-trends-on-par-with-cdc-data/

That's from 2010. At that time, the CDC had about a 2 week lag. Google was doing the same thing daily.

But, lets say that telcos and ISPs are not allowed to sell your GPS data. What about the data of where you opened an app? What about a purchase you made at a store? What about where you filled out a lead slip? Where you used a gift card?

Google compiles everything you do, and builds a profile of you.

 

[realibrad]

"Most people don't care" because most people don't know. Are you seriously arguing that people in general would not care that their location data is being sold to whoever the hell wants it, including bill collectors and stalkers?

Why should I have to "give up" having a cell phone if I don't want the provider selling my location data? Why not just legally preclude the data from being sold?

Because its more complicated than just GPS data. I work in marketing, so I have a bit more insight into this.

Location data is far more than where your phone says you are. Data is exchanged, received for just about anything you do.

As for making people aware to make them care, yes, I disagree with that. Again, try talking to people about what data is being exchanged, and what would have to be given up to prevent that data from being exchanged.

You will likely be dismissed as a conspiracy theorist, or, dismissed because people like the services.

 

[woolfe9998]

So how do you make that illegal? Its AI predicting things from data that is perfectly valid. There are multiple ways to get data, and its reasonable to want it. The problem is that we are in the information age and computers are a thing.

Google works with the CDC.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/google-flu-trends-on-par-with-cdc-data/

That's from 2010. At that time, the CDC had about a 2 week lag. Google was doing the same thing daily.

But, lets say that telcos and ISPs are not allowed to sell your GPS data. What about the data of where you opened an app? What about a purchase you made at a store? What about where you filled out a lead slip? Where you used a gift card?

Google compiles everything you do, and builds a profile of you.

Yes they do, but why should they be allowed to sell it?

 

[woolfe9998]

Because its more complicated than just GPS data. I work in marketing, so I have a bit more insight into this.

Location data is far more than where your phone says you are. Data is exchanged, received for just about anything you do.

As for making people aware to make them care, yes, I disagree with that. Again, try talking to people about what data is being exchanged, and what would have to be given up to prevent that data from being exchanged.

You will likely be dismissed as a conspiracy theorist, or, dismissed because people like the services.

So you're saying we can't have a regulation which prevents telcos from selling the physical location of your phone to the highest bidder? You realize that this information is being sold to aggregators who are selling it to whoever in the world wants it. If you think that is fine, then OK. I do not. And I strongly suspect that the vast majority of people would not either, after finding out about it.

 

[repoman0]

As for making people aware to make them care, yes, I disagree with that. Again, try talking to people about what data is being exchanged, and what would have to be given up to prevent that data from being exchanged.

You're delusional if you think the average person wouldn't be quite creeped out by this.

 

[realibrad]

Yes they do, but why should they be allowed to sell it?

Because they did the work to collect it. There is some benefit to a company when it can target a demographic. Knowing where your product and advertising should go prevents you from wasting time and resources trying to reach people that wont buy what you want to sell.

There are some benefits to this. I wish I could control it more, but, most wont.