Carson: Islam not consistent with Constitution; no Muslim should ever be President

[JD50]

It was done to appease the Muslims. There is also some contention whether the phrase even appeared in the Arabic version of the treaty. Also, that treaty was superseded in 1805 by a new treaty in which that phrase was omitted.

Any other questions?

Some people seem to confuse the separation of Church and State with the separation of religion and State. 'Ooh, but the US is a secular nation!' Our founding fathers recognized that a state religion was never a good thing. That doesn't imply that Christian principles - and nearly every founding father was a Christian - and rather devout ones by today's standards, didn't have a major impact on the founding of this country. It would take an absolute slobbering moron to believe otherwise and, apparently, there are a few of those in here.

You're right about that, and we're still trying to dig out of that hole.

 

[shady28]

Poll of US Muslims :

https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy...uslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/


"More than half (51%) of U.S. Muslims polled also believe either that they should have the choice of American or shariah courts, or that they should have their own tribunals to apply shariah. Only 39% of those polled said that Muslims in the U.S. should be subject to American courts.

...nearly a quarter of the Muslims polled believed that, “It is legitimate to use violence to punish those who give offense to Islam by, for example, portraying the prophet Mohammed.”

Nearly one-fifth of Muslim respondents said that the use of violence in the United States is justified in order to make shariah the law of the land in this country."


Poll of American's views of Islam :

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/10/americans-islam-poll_n_7036574.html

" 55 percent of Americans had either a somewhat or very unfavorable view of Islam, while one in four said they were not sure how they viewed the faith. Just 7 percent said they had a very favorable view of the religion, and 14 percent said they saw it somewhat favorably."


Poll of middle eastern views, From Al Jazeera :

Seems from factual data, one can conclude :

1 - Muslims in the US are very dangerous, with a high (albeit minority) percentage believing in violence to propagate religion

2 - Muslims in the Middle East are mostly radical, espoused by their support of ISIS

3 - Citizens are more in tune to these realities than the media; negative views of Islam outnumber positive views by 2:1


There's another interesting poll out there, shows the difference in Democratic Muslims vs GOP Muslims in the US in their belief as to if it is ok or not to kill people for religion. Guess which group is more bloodthirsty?

Carson is right.

 

[fskimospy]

Poll of US Muslims :

https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy...uslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/


"More than half (51%) of U.S. Muslims polled also believe either that they should have the choice of American or shariah courts, or that they should have their own tribunals to apply shariah. Only 39% of those polled said that Muslims in the U.S. should be subject to American courts.

...nearly a quarter of the Muslims polled believed that, “It is legitimate to use violence to punish those who give offense to Islam by, for example, portraying the prophet Mohammed.”

Nearly one-fifth of Muslim respondents said that the use of violence in the United States is justified in order to make shariah the law of the land in this country."


Poll of American's views of Islam :

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/10/americans-islam-poll_n_7036574.html

" 55 percent of Americans had either a somewhat or very unfavorable view of Islam, while one in four said they were not sure how they viewed the faith. Just 7 percent said they had a very favorable view of the religion, and 14 percent said they saw it somewhat favorably."


Poll of middle eastern views, From Al Jazeera :

Seems from factual data, one can conclude :

1 - Muslims in the US are very dangerous, with a high (albeit minority) percentage believing in violence to propagate religion

2 - Muslims in the Middle East are mostly radical, espoused by their support of ISIS

3 - Citizens are more in tune to these realities than the media; negative views of Islam outnumber positive views by 2:1


There's another interesting poll out there, shows the difference in Democratic Muslims vs GOP Muslims in the US in their belief as to if it is ok or not to kill people for religion. Guess which group is more bloodthirsty?

Carson is right.

The Center for Security Policy is an ultra right wing anti-Islam/conspiracy theory group and this is an online poll conducted by a relatively unknown Republican polling group. Its results are highly likely to be inaccurate.

If you go read the poll you'll see that even though it's their own poll they misrepresent the results. (Shariah court question does not say what they claim it says)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Security_Policy

 

[BurnItDwn]

Religion as a whole generally conflicts with everything, yet everybody is born with the right to worship who they please, however they please provided they do not hurt the rights of others. Muslims are really no "worse" than christians, jews, hindus, buddhists, shinto, neopagan, wiccan, or other polytheistic, shamanistic, anamalistic, or pantheistic views. All in All, religion contradicts with reality, but people are free to believe whatever they want.

 

[Jaskalas]

I wouldn't vote for a devout Muslim, and I sure as hell wouldn't vote for Kim Davis. Religion does not have a place in public office. That is how you safeguard Separation of Church and State as a guiding principle.

 

[EOM]

Everyone is happy when "their" guy is calling the shots making the laws.... but totally aghast at "the other guy" running their lives....

Why not go more libertarian and live and let live?

Of those respondents that LOVED sharia law In that poll, what % were male? Were the females even allowed to respond?

 

[HomerJS]

When are we going to smarten up and make religion a non-issue for holding public office.

Yeah it's fiction but it's so true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFwj6jUxArY

 

[ivwshane]

Propaganda strikes again! We keep asking when you idiots will quit getting duped but your answer seems to be a resounding, NEVER!

http://bridge.georgetown.edu/new-poll-on-american-muslims-is-grounded-in-bias-riddled-with-flaws/

When data like a poll only seem to show up on right wing websites, you might want to dig a little deeper.

Poll of US Muslims :

https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy...uslims-shows-thousands-support-shariah-jihad/


"More than half (51%) of U.S. Muslims polled also believe either that they should have the choice of American or shariah courts, or that they should have their own tribunals to apply shariah. Only 39% of those polled said that Muslims in the U.S. should be subject to American courts.

...nearly a quarter of the Muslims polled believed that, “It is legitimate to use violence to punish those who give offense to Islam by, for example, portraying the prophet Mohammed.”

Nearly one-fifth of Muslim respondents said that the use of violence in the United States is justified in order to make shariah the law of the land in this country."


Poll of American's views of Islam :

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/10/americans-islam-poll_n_7036574.html

" 55 percent of Americans had either a somewhat or very unfavorable view of Islam, while one in four said they were not sure how they viewed the faith. Just 7 percent said they had a very favorable view of the religion, and 14 percent said they saw it somewhat favorably."


Poll of middle eastern views, From Al Jazeera :

Seems from factual data, one can conclude :

1 - Muslims in the US are very dangerous, with a high (albeit minority) percentage believing in violence to propagate religion

2 - Muslims in the Middle East are mostly radical, espoused by their support of ISIS

3 - Citizens are more in tune to these realities than the media; negative views of Islam outnumber positive views by 2:1


There's another interesting poll out there, shows the difference in Democratic Muslims vs GOP Muslims in the US in their belief as to if it is ok or not to kill people for religion. Guess which group is more bloodthirsty?

Carson is right.

 

[ivwshane]

When are we going to smarten up and make religion a non-issue for holding public office.

Yeah it's fiction but it's so true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFwj6jUxArY

You mean when are we going to make religion a non issue for holding office AGAIN, as our founding fathers already addressed this issue and enshrined the issue in that damned piece of paper called the constitution. You know the constitution right? It's that paper righties only read the first page of and claim to hold in high regard despite, clearly, not knowing what it says.

 

[Jaskalas]

You mean when are we going to make religion a non issue for holding office AGAIN, as our founding fathers already addressed this issue and enshrined the issue in that damned piece of paper called the constitution. You know the constitution right? It's that paper righties only read the first page of and claim to hold in high regard despite, clearly, not knowing what it says.

Constitution is upheld as its not illegal to be a Muslim. Says nothing about us having to vote for them.

 

[Omar F1]

I don't know what is this all about. Kind of big BS going on, and they were pretty happy to catch some crap on that candidate.

He absolutely said nothing wrong, especially in a country of free speech.

 

[OutHouse]

Completely moot. Many not only oppose Same Sex Marriage, some have called for the Criminalization of Homosexual activity itself. That is Unconstitutional.

so instead of answering the question you deflect... par for course with you isnt it.

by the way when is Canada going to take God out of your national anthem?

 

[OutHouse]

Actually the irony is Republicans want religious freedom but only for Christians

but on the other hand there is a elected democrat pushing her Christian religious beliefs on gays by not following the law. :biggrin:

 

[OutHouse]

Religion as a whole generally conflicts with everything, yet everybody is born with the right to worship who they please, however they please provided they do not hurt the rights of others. Muslims are really no "worse" than christians, jews, hindus, buddhists, shinto, neopagan, wiccan, or other polytheistic, shamanistic, anamalistic, or pantheistic views. All in All, religion contradicts with reality, but people are free to believe whatever they want.

only the tiny fact of a whole bunch of muslims are killing other muslims in some of the most barbaric ways because they are not muslim enough. how many have been slaughtered by ISIS/sharia in the name of allah the past 2 years?

yea lots of diffrence between Islam and the other religions you just listed.

 

[Victorian Gray]

only the tiny fact of a whole bunch of muslims are killing other muslims in some of the most barbaric ways because they are not muslim enough. how many have been slaughtered by ISIS/sharia in the name of allah the past 2 years?

yea lots of diffrence between Islam and the other religions you just listed.

While they've certainly worked hard at it, not nearly as many as have been by Assad's forces.

 

[Oyeve]

Islam is not compatible with Democracy, so is Christianity. The problem right now, Islam is what Christianity was like during the dark ages.

Maybe in 1000 years the Islamic religion will be a bit more polished.

I agree, but its more like 300 years or so.

 

[Oyeve]

only the tiny fact of a whole bunch of muslims are killing other muslims in some of the most barbaric ways because they are not muslim enough. how many have been slaughtered by ISIS/sharia in the name of allah the past 2 years?

yea lots of diffrence between Islam and the other religions you just listed.

ISIS is not a representation of islam.

 

[blankslate]

Well, according to the Treaty of Tripoli the U.S. isn't really officially big on his religion either.... wikipedia page scrubbing by certain organizations aside.


....

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

So it was done to appease the Muslims and then not shown to them? Additionally, why does it matter if it was in the Arabic version or not? It was in the version that was approved unanimously by Congress and the President. (the President being a founding father of course, and Congress having several of them in it if I remember correctly)

Is your assumption that Muslims would only have seen the Arabic version?

I also don't know why it being omitted in a future treaty is relevant.

Because the 1797 treaty was violated, essentially became null and void, and was replaced by a new treaty. You do know what the word "superseded" means?

Yes, how do you square your opinion that the country was founded as a Christian nation with that nation explicitly stating it was not founded as a Christian nation?

Already asked and answered.

I don't see anyone saying Christianity didn't influence the country, I see people saying that the US was not founded as a Christian nation, because it wasn't. In fact, we went out of our way to avoid doing that.

We went out of our way to ensure there was no State religion and to ensure that the Church and State remained separate. The Church != religion, specifically in this case the Christian religion. In fact, if you read just about any writings of this country's founders you'll see just how heavily the Christian faith influenced their decisions. This nation was founded on Christian principles and morals because the men who founded it were Christians. Claiming otherwise is foolish

But, whatever. Keep ignoring that man behind the curtain.

 

[OutHouse]

ISIS is not a representation of islam.

tell that to them and see what happens.

 

[BurnItDwn]

only the tiny fact of a whole bunch of muslims are killing other muslims in some of the most barbaric ways because they are not muslim enough. how many have been slaughtered by ISIS/sharia in the name of allah the past 2 years?

yea lots of diffrence between Islam and the other religions you just listed.

You are talking about a small number of individuals, crazy people making a crazy person murder army team going around and doing all kinds of evil bad shit.

I am talking about 1 billion people who follow islam.

You are mixing up religious belief, with psychotic murderous rampage.

While I agree that believing in religious belief requires "suspension of disbelieve" to some extent, and essentially, requires some irrational belief, its normally considered to be perfectly healthy.

Most muslims have killed 0 people, just like most people in all of the other major world religions.

If you think Islam is bad and Christianity is good, then you must not be familiar with the Catholic church, or Martin Luther, or the Purtians, or people using christianity as a crutch for supporting slavery and extermination in entire continents.

People are generally good, but they are all corruptible (except of course for our friend incorruptible)

In any case, this is not about some crazy fringe of murder psychopaths, this is about muslims as a whole.

I will disclose that I work among a large number of Indian folks, and having Muslims on my team who I see every day, generally, I see them as normal people except that they are weird because they get grossed out from bacon. That is the only thing I dont like about muslims really, they are hard to please when it comes to selecting a location for going out to lunch, but no worse than picky eaters.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I will disclose that I work among a large number of Indian folks, and having Muslims on my team who I see every day, generally, I see them as normal people except that they are weird because they get grossed out from bacon. That is the only thing I dont like about muslims really, they are hard to please when it comes to selecting a location for going out to lunch, but no worse than picky eaters.

This is my new favorite descriptor for people who follow other religions; like us, but picky eaters.

 

[ivwshane]

Is your assumption that Muslims would only have seen the Arabic version?


Because the 1797 treaty was violated, essentially became null and void, and was replaced by a new treaty. You do know what the word "superseded" means?


Already asked and answered.


We went out of our way to ensure there was no State religion and to ensure that the Church and State remained separate. The Church != religion, specifically in this case the Christian religion. In fact, if you read just about any writings of this country's founders you'll see just how heavily the Christian faith influenced their decisions. This nation was founded on Christian principles and morals because the men who founded it were Christians. Claiming otherwise is foolish

But, whatever. Keep ignoring that man behind the curtain.

Can you explain why Christians who created a country founded on Christianity not only authored the 1st amendment which prohibited making any law respecting the establishment of any religion but that they also specifically stated that no religious test should be requird to hold the highest office in the land and those below it (article VI paragraph 3)?

 

[pcgeek11]

Why?

Because I think most atheist are too full of themselves to believe in a higher power.

 

[pcgeek11]

The irony here is, of course, that he prefaces his second comment with the first one wherein he states:



I completely AGREE with that statement. But by saying that Muslims - blanket statement - should not be President, he is demonstrating that he himself has beliefs that are INCONSISTENT with the "values and principles of America."

In other words, Carson is hoist by his own petard: He is UNFIT TO BE PRESIDENT.

But by saying what he said, he is revealing that his own values are inconsistent with the Constitution. By his own standard, he is unfit to be President.

OK.

Do you think Hillary is fit to be the President of the US?