Cap and Trade

[JKing106]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
I'd happily pay an extra 6% per year in energy bills if this bill actually did anything other than invoke easily met requirements that basically just give companies carte blanch to raise their rates for giggles. Basically this is yet another bill that looks like it's appeasing liberals but in reality just pays off corporations.

You think you're paying just 6% on your energy bills? You're dumber than I thought. You'll be paying 6% on EVERYTHING.

Congrats, every working family just got a 6% pay decrease. Well done, Democrats.

You sure as fuck don't mind shoveling your tax dollars into the Military Complex, do you? Personally, I want every dime of mine that went into the highly unneeded F22 back. And every dime that went into the munitions that killed 1 million Iraqis of the last 8 years.

It really doesn't matter, though. The super rich will just trickle down what we need.

 

[sandorski]

In a few years none of you will even care about this. In fact, amongst those still caring, many will have changed their minds from Opposition to Support. You're all acting like this is some new Scheme Al Gore cooked up in some Gas Guzzling SUV. It was done before(Bush Sr as President) and was a great success then.

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: JKing106

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
I'd happily pay an extra 6% per year in energy bills if this bill actually did anything other than invoke easily met requirements that basically just give companies carte blanch to raise their rates for giggles. Basically this is yet another bill that looks like it's appeasing liberals but in reality just pays off corporations.

You think you're paying just 6% on your energy bills? You're dumber than I thought. You'll be paying 6% on EVERYTHING.

Congrats, every working family just got a 6% pay decrease. Well done, Democrats.

You sure as fuck don't mind shoveling your tax dollars into the Military Complex, do you? Personally, I want every dime of mine that went into the highly unneeded F22 back. And every dime that went into the munitions that killed 1 million Iraqis of the last 8 years.

It really doesn't matter, though. The super rich will just trickle down what we need.

Highly unneeded F22? What hippie liberal school did you go to again?

 

[Duwelon]

Originally posted by: sandorski
In a few years none of you will even care about this. In fact, amongst those still caring, many will have changed their minds from Opposition to Support. You're all acting like this is some new Scheme Al Gore cooked up in some Gas Guzzling SUV. It was done before(Bush Sr as President) and was a great success then.

Dumb, and a lie. This has not been done before, and it's an incredibly harmful thing to the economy based on junk and unproven science, by anti Americans who dont even have the balls to confront skeptics of their junk science.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: sandorski
In a few years none of you will even care about this. In fact, amongst those still caring, many will have changed their minds from Opposition to Support. You're all acting like this is some new Scheme Al Gore cooked up in some Gas Guzzling SUV. It was done before(Bush Sr as President) and was a great success then.

Dumb, and a lie. This has not been done before, and it's an incredibly harmful thing to the economy based on junk and unproven science, by anti Americans who dont even have the balls to confront skeptics of their junk science.

Incorrect

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: sandorski
In a few years none of you will even care about this. In fact, amongst those still caring, many will have changed their minds from Opposition to Support. You're all acting like this is some new Scheme Al Gore cooked up in some Gas Guzzling SUV. It was done before(Bush Sr as President) and was a great success then.

Dumb, and a lie. This has not been done before, and it's an incredibly harmful thing to the economy based on junk and unproven science, by anti Americans who dont even have the balls to confront skeptics of their junk science.

Incorrect

You are correct, sir. :thumbsup:


I thought everyone knew this.

"This is similar to the cap and trade program enacted by the Clean Air Act of 1990, which reduced the sulfur emissions that cause acid rain, and it met the goals at a much lower cost than industry or government predicted."

 

[Carmen813]

Industry has always opposed such legislation, hell, the auto industry thought mandated seat belts would destroy them. This will probably end up creating jobs long term, though I imagine there will be short-term losses.

 

[quest55720]

Originally posted by: Carmen813
Industry has always opposed such legislation, hell, the auto industry thought mandated seat belts would destroy them. This will probably end up creating jobs long term, though I imagine there will be short-term losses.

It will create jobs over seas when manufactures are forced into other countries like China with no regulations. This bill is a economy and job killer plain and simple. If this goes through I might be forced to move. If my utility bills are going to double no way I can afford to live up north. The Republicans are going to win in a landslide in 2010 if this goes through. Won't be a hard sell all they have to do is promise to repeal the biggest tax increase in the history of the country. Worse yet this tax will be completely regressive and will affect the poor/elderly the most. Is Pelosi and Obama going to do their parts for the environment and give up those private jets?

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Carmen813
Industry has always opposed such legislation, hell, the auto industry thought mandated seat belts would destroy them. This will probably end up creating jobs long term, though I imagine there will be short-term losses.

It will create jobs over seas when manufactures are forced into other countries like China with no regulations. This bill is a economy and job killer plain and simple. If this goes through I might be forced to move. If my utility bills are going to double no way I can afford to live up north. The Republicans are going to win in a landslide in 2010 if this goes through. Won't be a hard sell all they have to do is promise to repeal the biggest tax increase in the history of the country. Worse yet this tax will be completely regressive and will affect the poor/elderly the most. Is Pelosi and Obama going to do their parts for the environment and give up those private jets?

All Heat, No Light.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: quest55720

Originally posted by: Carmen813
Industry has always opposed such legislation, hell, the auto industry thought mandated seat belts would destroy them. This will probably end up creating jobs long term, though I imagine there will be short-term losses.

It will create jobs over seas when manufactures are forced into other countries like China with no regulations. This bill is a economy and job killer plain and simple. If this goes through I might be forced to move. If my utility bills are going to double no way I can afford to live up north. The Republicans are going to win in a landslide in 2010 if this goes through. Won't be a hard sell all they have to do is promise to repeal the biggest tax increase in the history of the country. Worse yet this tax will be completely regressive and will affect the poor/elderly the most. Is Pelosi and Obama going to do their parts for the environment and give up those private jets?

You're screwed either way, because they are already headed there. You require something else to fix that issue.

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

hey where's the hardcore dem trolls and obama fanboys? they're always there when its a fox news thread but not in something like this that AT is clearly against....

 

[feralkid]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
hey where's the hardcore dem trolls and obama fanboys? they're always there when its a fox news thread but not in something like this that AT is clearly against....

Because it has already been explained that this has been done before and the world didn't end.

 

[SammyJr]

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: JKing106

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
I'd happily pay an extra 6% per year in energy bills if this bill actually did anything other than invoke easily met requirements that basically just give companies carte blanch to raise their rates for giggles. Basically this is yet another bill that looks like it's appeasing liberals but in reality just pays off corporations.

You think you're paying just 6% on your energy bills? You're dumber than I thought. You'll be paying 6% on EVERYTHING.

Congrats, every working family just got a 6% pay decrease. Well done, Democrats.

You sure as fuck don't mind shoveling your tax dollars into the Military Complex, do you? Personally, I want every dime of mine that went into the highly unneeded F22 back. And every dime that went into the munitions that killed 1 million Iraqis of the last 8 years.

It really doesn't matter, though. The super rich will just trickle down what we need.

Highly unneeded F22? What hippie liberal school did you go to again?

Please explain to me why we need a super duper new war plane. Who should we kill with said plane and why? Thanks. Praise Jebus.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: SammyJr

Originally posted by: Duwelon

Originally posted by: JKing106

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: ZeGermans
I'd happily pay an extra 6% per year in energy bills if this bill actually did anything other than invoke easily met requirements that basically just give companies carte blanch to raise their rates for giggles. Basically this is yet another bill that looks like it's appeasing liberals but in reality just pays off corporations.

You think you're paying just 6% on your energy bills? You're dumber than I thought. You'll be paying 6% on EVERYTHING.

Congrats, every working family just got a 6% pay decrease. Well done, Democrats.

You sure as fuck don't mind shoveling your tax dollars into the Military Complex, do you? Personally, I want every dime of mine that went into the highly unneeded F22 back. And every dime that went into the munitions that killed 1 million Iraqis of the last 8 years.

It really doesn't matter, though. The super rich will just trickle down what we need.

Highly unneeded F22? What hippie liberal school did you go to again?

Please explain to me why we need a super duper new war plane. Who should we kill with said plane and why? Thanks. Praise Jebus.

Also cell phones make it crash.

 

[ZeGermans]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
hey where's the hardcore dem trolls and obama fanboys? they're always there when its a fox news thread but not in something like this that AT is clearly against....

this legislation is trash because it won't do shit to the status quo and is yet another thing meant to placate liberals while not actually doing anything.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: sandorski
In a few years none of you will even care about this. In fact, amongst those still caring, many will have changed their minds from Opposition to Support. You're all acting like this is some new Scheme Al Gore cooked up in some Gas Guzzling SUV. It was done before(Bush Sr as President) and was a great success then.

I understand that you effectively wish to assimilate us, but just how do you know that this bill actually does since the Dems wouldn't let anyone see 400 pages of this?

Now before I hear "Hey the Reps did it too" I'll remind you that it's a POS tactic then and it still is.

So how do you know what you can't know?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: sandorski
In a few years none of you will even care about this. In fact, amongst those still caring, many will have changed their minds from Opposition to Support. You're all acting like this is some new Scheme Al Gore cooked up in some Gas Guzzling SUV. It was done before(Bush Sr as President) and was a great success then.

I understand that you effectively wish to assimilate us, but just how do you know that this bill actually does since the Dems wouldn't let anyone see 400 pages of this?

Now before I hear "Hey the Reps did it too" I'll remind you that it's a POS tactic then and it still is.

So how do you know what you can't know?

Blind faith?

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: sandorski
In a few years none of you will even care about this. In fact, amongst those still caring, many will have changed their minds from Opposition to Support. You're all acting like this is some new Scheme Al Gore cooked up in some Gas Guzzling SUV. It was done before(Bush Sr as President) and was a great success then.

I understand that you effectively wish to assimilate us, but just how do you know that this bill actually does since the Dems wouldn't let anyone see 400 pages of this?

Now before I hear "Hey the Reps did it too" I'll remind you that it's a POS tactic then and it still is.

So how do you know what you can't know?

Well, that's a good point, but the same can be said of all the Detractors arguments. I'm arguing against the Arguments put forward in this thread.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: sandorski
In a few years none of you will even care about this. In fact, amongst those still caring, many will have changed their minds from Opposition to Support. You're all acting like this is some new Scheme Al Gore cooked up in some Gas Guzzling SUV. It was done before(Bush Sr as President) and was a great success then.

I understand that you effectively wish to assimilate us, but just how do you know that this bill actually does since the Dems wouldn't let anyone see 400 pages of this?

Now before I hear "Hey the Reps did it too" I'll remind you that it's a POS tactic then and it still is.

So how do you know what you can't know?

Well, that's a good point, but the same can be said of all the Detractors arguments. I'm arguing against the Arguments put forward in this thread.

I don't see anything wrong with opposing a bill of unknowns. I do see a problem with supporting one.

 

[daishi5]

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: sandorski
In a few years none of you will even care about this. In fact, amongst those still caring, many will have changed their minds from Opposition to Support. You're all acting like this is some new Scheme Al Gore cooked up in some Gas Guzzling SUV. It was done before(Bush Sr as President) and was a great success then.

I understand that you effectively wish to assimilate us, but just how do you know that this bill actually does since the Dems wouldn't let anyone see 400 pages of this?

Now before I hear "Hey the Reps did it too" I'll remind you that it's a POS tactic then and it still is.

So how do you know what you can't know?

I hate bills like this, we can't see a lot of it, it gets pushed through in a rush, and we just have to trust them it works. The success of a cap and trade plan is in the details, set the cap too low and you cripple industry, set the cap to high and it doesn't change a thing. And on top of it all, the government just seems to thrive on the politicians fallacy. Yes something needs to be done, yes cap and trade could be a very good thing, but just because this has a form of cap and trade, and something needs to be done does not mean that this bill is the way to do it. This is really really important, it should actually be studied. Instead we are having a very important part of our future shoved down our throat without any form of critical thinking applied.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: bamacre

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: Hayabusa Rider

Originally posted by: sandorski
In a few years none of you will even care about this. In fact, amongst those still caring, many will have changed their minds from Opposition to Support. You're all acting like this is some new Scheme Al Gore cooked up in some Gas Guzzling SUV. It was done before(Bush Sr as President) and was a great success then.

I understand that you effectively wish to assimilate us, but just how do you know that this bill actually does since the Dems wouldn't let anyone see 400 pages of this?

Now before I hear "Hey the Reps did it too" I'll remind you that it's a POS tactic then and it still is.

So how do you know what you can't know?

Well, that's a good point, but the same can be said of all the Detractors arguments. I'm arguing against the Arguments put forward in this thread.

I don't see anything wrong with opposing a bill of unknowns. I do see a problem with supporting one.

There's nothing wrong with that, but who made that Argument?

 

[Slew Foot]

A lot of the Obama legislation is pushed down our throats without ample time to study the effects. Whenever someone says we must do something fast or because of fear, thats the time to worry.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: bamacre

I don't see anything wrong with opposing a bill of unknowns. I do see a problem with supporting one.

There's nothing wrong with that, but who made that Argument?

uh, i think bamacre just did

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: bamacre

I don't see anything wrong with opposing a bill of unknowns. I do see a problem with supporting one.

There's nothing wrong with that, but who made that Argument?

uh, i think bamacre just did

Well, that's nice.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
A lot of the Obama legislation is pushed down our throats without ample time to study the effects. Whenever someone says we must do something fast or because of fear, thats the time to worry.

Happened under Bush, too. We cannot allow Congress to continue acting this way.