Can someone please explain the Taylor Swift thing to me

[nakedfrog]

lol +1

Taylor Swift music is easy to listen to in the same way that airport canned announcements about the red and white zones are easy to listen to.

Don't start with your "red zone" shit again.

 

[Imp]

Miley may be pushing the limits and you and I can agree on that, but she's not that far behind TS in yearly income so something she's doing is working.

The music business has always been more image over substance but with file sharing the money is no longer in selling records or CD's so all the "artists" bank on making the money from concerts and appearances. When the game is so heavily weighted by image it's hardly a surprise that Miley and others do what they do to get attention.

Which makes TS's success all the more impressive given that she does NOT do the stripper act. The fact that TS's voice is sub average by even the crappy standards of today makes her success even more remarkable. In an industry with 5/10 voices and few much better than 7/10 TS is more like 3/10 and still rules the world.

Miley is definitely a success and essentially printing money, makes more in a day than I'd make in a lifetime... but I'm tired of seeing her without clothes on. She's overexposed herself to the point where I don't find her body attractive anymore. Honestly, I'm not against using sex to peddle one's wares. At the same time, I give more respect to those who aren't reliant on sex to sell their music. Lady Gaga shows a lot of skin too, but I can see some art, style, and creativity behind her work. And I know that behind it all, she's a good singer/artist with a lot of talent.

I'm not so sure about TS not doing the stripper act. Seems like 90% of her wardrobe consists of short shorts/skirts. She can do what she wants, but let's not kid ourselves.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

OP, you would call me... Maybe! /wink

 

[Fanatical Meat]

I dont really know the matter but can someone tell me where to get the (removed bullshit link) for her eras concert.

It appears to be in the link you posted

 

[HomerJS]

Wow, what a necro. I had a debate with a friend a few years ago. She said it was unfair I used male singers and a different genre. My opinion hasn't changed. Here's another reason why. Female, similar age at the time and similar genre of music.

 

[Torn Mind]

Wow, what a necro. I had a debate with a friend a few years ago. She said it was unfair I used male singers and a different genre. My opinion hasn't changed. Here's another reason why. Female, similar age at the time and similar genre of music.

Hero was originally written for another singer, but Tommy Mottola insisted she keep the song. Then in the production process, she and Walter came out with a few differing versions because Mariah could do lot, before they settled on the album version.


The most unappreciated musical talent is the ability to make a tune on a lean number of notes. Another is to make unnoticed varied repeats where the notes are different but the mood comes off exactly the same.

Her live performance in 1996 at MSG shows that she made changes, some very subtle and only recognizable with comparing the change to the original and others more obvious. But no less effective, if not moreso than the record. Where there are only no melisma or two-three in the record, the melismas are much longer yet not easy detected in the 1996 Live. Just producing one finished product is usually enough to cost a musician considerable time; producing a variation would cost more time. Just the opening alone is more involved in the live compared to the original record(mostly silence and then two notes) As far as Swift goes, I haven't heard much in terms of varied repeats in her performances, so Swift does not have that as a strength.

Taylor Swift was a fan of Shania and probably follows that formula. Shania Twain had much more help in songwriting by her former husband Mutt Lange. He did have a way to make something catchy with few notes, and not only in the genre of county-pop for his former wife, but the likes of AC/DC as well.

 

[QueBert]

Wow, what a necro. I had a debate with a friend a few years ago. She said it was unfair I used male singers and a different genre. My opinion hasn't changed. Here's another reason why. Female, similar age at the time and similar genre of music.

Now that's a damn voice, I think the only thing your friend could argue here would be Mariah's a once-in-a-lifetime singer so that's not gonna be a fair comparison even for a good singer. And you're using her to make a point about Taylor? lol. But I just looked it up and she's worth $600 million according to Google, so I guess her voice is pretty damn good to a lot of people. I don't see what the fuss is about her music, and I'll never be able to look at her and not see Stuart Little.

And maybe I'm wrong because I don't know her music, but the few songs I heard from her were uptempo pop songs, and Mariah does a lot of ballads so I wouldn't say similar genres. But maybe Taylor has a lot of ballads? I'm not about to go look up her songs on YT to find out lol.

 

[Torn Mind]

Now that's a damn voice, I think the only thing your friend could argue here would be Mariah's a once-in-a-lifetime singer so that's not gonna be a fair comparison even for a good singer. And you're using her to make a point about Taylor? lol. But I just looked it up and she's worth $600 million according to Google, so I guess her voice is pretty damn good to a lot of people. I don't see what the fuss is about her music, and I'll never be able to look at her and not see Stuart Little.

And maybe I'm wrong because I don't know her music, but the few songs I heard from her were uptempo pop songs, and Mariah does a lot of ballads so I wouldn't say similar genres. But maybe Taylor has a lot of ballads? I'm not about to go look up her songs on YT to find out lol.

Taylor Swift is not anywhere near Mariah in terms of gifts, and not just the obvious physical gifts in the vocal cords. Mariah has incorporated "Beethovenian" writing in her songs that most singers can't include because they can't physically do it nor mentally process music in that way.

But Taylor Swift does have enough musicality to make things work for her career-wise. In this regard, she outdoes her idol, Shania Twain, whose songwriting without Mutt is...lacking in intuition.
Taylor can't do melisma, but she can make a set of 4-8 notes sticking in enough people's minds. Taking brief sample of her latest album(Midnights), some tracks have supposed non-Swift liking a particular track. Midnights is quite moody and has modern "pop" elements influenced by R&B, a stark contrast to her early country-pop years.

Mozart's posthumous reputation is mostly Eine Kleine Nachtmusik even though his writing ability and processing clearly could do much more than that. I think Taylor could meet that bar of writing but not more than that. Taylor Swift can make music that audiences can relate to and thus buy her records. If one wanted more "advanced" things in music, she isn't it. But she does provide an example of simple concepts becoming effective songwriting, an undervalued skill.

TLDR. Taylor Swift might lack in certain things in terms of musical abilities, but she possesses strength in making tunes and lyrics a listener can relate to, which seems to be enough to not only keep afloat...but actually continue to rise. Now that she's Travis Kelce's romantic partner...there might be a new legion of created fans.

There has been and likely always will be tension between music written to "sell first" versus that which explores more "advanced concepts". Beethoven himself had this, in which he grew to hate his Septet because that's what people wanted to hear and played in arrangements.

 

[WelshBloke]

Wow, what a necro. I had a debate with a friend a few years ago. She said it was unfair I used male singers and a different genre. My opinion hasn't changed. Here's another reason why. Female, similar age at the time and similar genre of music.

I'm not a fan of Taylor Swift but I'd listen to her everytime over Mariah. I just can not stand her voice at all. I don't like the "sing 8 notes when there was supposed to be 1" thing that she does. Sing the damn song, stop trying to show off by crowbarring all the notes in there! It's like that horrible phase of hair metal where guitarists would over complicate everything.

 

[Torn Mind]

I'm not a fan of Taylor Swift but I'd listen to her everytime over Mariah. I just can not stand her voice at all. I don't like the "sing 8 notes when there was supposed to be 1" thing that she does. Sing the damn song, stop trying to show off by crowbarring all the notes in there! It's like that horrible phase of hair metal where guitarists would over complicate everything.

It's not showing off if its done right.

It's also how music used to be written in opera and orchestral music and still carried on in the black community. She happened to have the fusion of both worlds to hear it all.

 

[nakedfrog]

Figures when Torn Mind pops back in, it's to spread the message of the cult of the lamb

 

[skyking]

Figures when Torn Mind pops back in, it's to spread the message of the cult of the lamb

somebody put a quarter in him again. It's @HomerJS fault.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

She can sing?


Who cares?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

This thread makes me wish Lemmy was still alive so Motörhead could do a Mariah cover.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

I honestly cannot think of or name a single TS song, just not my genre of music. But I think @Lost_in_the_HTTP kinda nailed it.

She's basically balanced her brand on the razor's edge of the madonna/whore complex and is both wholesome and accessible to tweens while being lusted after by horny old men. Like if Britney Spears ('s Dad... I guess) had turned the dial down from a burnout inducing 11 to a more sustainable 6 and jut ridden that wave forever.

Honestly TS is more admirable as a business person than an artist, its where her true skill lies.

 

[nakedfrog]

I honestly cannot think of or name a single TS song, just not my genre of music. But I think @Lost_in_the_HTTP kinda nailed it.

She's basically balanced her brand on the razor's edge of the madonna/whore complex and is both wholesome and accessible to tweens while being lusted after by horny old men. Like if Britney Spears ('s Dad... I guess) had turned the dial down from a burnout inducing 11 to a more sustainable 6 and jut ridden that wave forever.

Honestly TS is more admirable as a business person than an artist, its where her true skill lies.

She's actually done a few genres, I didn't even realize that a horrible song I'd heard in a grocery store was one of hers until I was talking to someone at work. But "Shake It Off" was such an utterly massive song even I knew about that one.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Her whole schtick seems to be just another somebody done somebody wrong song which does nothing for me.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Now that's a damn voice, I think the only thing your friend could argue here would be Mariah's a once-in-a-lifetime singer so that's not gonna be a fair comparison even for a good singer.

Trouble with that mindset, there's actually a whole lot of 'once in a lifetime' of a lot of skills, singing included. It's fair to compare them imo.

 

[skyking]

I honestly cannot think of or name a single TS song, just not my genre of music. But I think @Lost_in_the_HTTP kinda nailed it.

She's basically balanced her brand on the razor's edge of the madonna/whore complex and is both wholesome and accessible to tweens while being lusted after by horny old men. Like if Britney Spears ('s Dad... I guess) had turned the dial down from a burnout inducing 11 to a more sustainable 6 and jut ridden that wave forever.

Honestly TS is more admirable as a business person than an artist, its where her true skill lies.

This is it for me

 

[Torn Mind]

Figures when Torn Mind pops back in, it's to spread the message of the cult of the lamb

The primal force that helped me decode Mozart(indirectly at first through a singer who clearly was influence by the Mariah style, Joanna Levesque) requires tribute.

The 25th Piano Concerto's first movement is yet another companion to understanding Mariah.

Varying repeats in music is something that many musicians intuitively gravitates towards regardless of time period. Deviating from the record and making something more effective live is something the more skilled musician taps into because it works. The elements laid out by Carl Phillipe Emmanuel Bach has influenced how I "judge" musicians(not just the Mariah Carey) with regards to their musicality.

The Probestück in F major [Wq 63/5/iii] is a sketch of how one usually varies allegros with two reprises nowadays. As praiseworthy as this invention is, it is much abused. Here is what I think about this point: one must not vary everything, for it would become a new piece. Many passages, in particular those that are affective or recitative-like, should not be varied. This applies also to galant pieces in a style with certain novel expressions and twists that can hardly be grasped fully when heard the first time. All variations must be in accord with the affect of the piece, and they have to be better or at least just as good as the original. For when composing a piece, one often deliberately chooses to write down one idea instead of other ones because one deems it the best of its kind, although one did consider the variations that the performer chooses, believing that it does the piece a great honor. Simple ideas sometimes get well embellished in a fanciful manner and vice versa. This has to be done with careful deliberation, though, as one always has to keep in mind the preceding and the following ideas. One must have the whole piece in view to maintain a balanced mix of brilliance and simplicity, fire and languor, sadness and cheerfulness, vocal and instrumental idioms. The bass may be varied in keyboard pieces, provided the harmony remains the same. Notwithstanding all the variations, which are so fashionable today, one must conceive a performance that clearly preserves the composition’s basic design, which displays its affect.

And from what I've witnessed in terms the "elite" musicians, regardless of era or time period, is that they can take much greater liberties in varying their melodies while preserving the affect of the work. It just so happened that JoJo released re-recordings of her original albums with enough deviations from the original to essentially cause me to study her "varied repeats", and yes, they are massively skilled examples of effective varied repeats. And that was the actual beginning of eventually becoming a lamb.

 

[Fenixgoon]

I didn't know torn mind was such a music afficianado/wizard

 

[Leeea]

She is fantastic

 

[HomerJS]

TLDR. Taylor Swift might lack in certain things in terms of musical abilities, but she possesses strength in making tunes and lyrics a listener can relate to, which seems to be enough to not only keep afloat...but actually continue to rise. Now that she's Travis Kelce's romantic partner...there might be a new legion of created fans.

There has been and likely always will be tension between music written to "sell first" versus that which explores more "advanced concepts". Beethoven himself had this, in which he grew to hate his Septet because that's what people wanted to hear and played in arrangements.

I don't begrudge her that. The opposite I give her props for being so popular. My issue is with people willing to anoint her the greatest musical star ever. She had the advantage to peak in the era of social media. IMO that accounts for 40% of her popularity. One of the ways I judge, 30 years from now will anyone be playing any Taylor Swift song?

As for the Kelce thing this is one big publicity stunt. Everyone making money talking about them especially the NFL with all the interest from the Swifties. Two dead giveaways?

1. Bill Belichick is the king of saying nothing, but a reporter managed to get him to comment on them. Normally he would say, "Why do I care?"

2. Do you ever bring your S.O. to meet mother unless it's serious? If it was, they would have no problem admitting in public which nobody in their circle has.

The only reason I know so much I'm an Eagles fan and the TS/TK stuff is being shoved down our throats.

All that being said I hope she has a successful career which seems to be the case.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Kanye, is that you? Stay mad bro! Imma let you finish... I'd have thrown him a beating. Disrespectful punk. She picked up a massive amount of love and sympathy over that. Hell, he helped inadvertently make her this big. Meanwhile turd blossom continues to prove he is mentally ill and needs treatment.

I have no idea why you are bringing MJ into this either. He ruled the goddamn planet. He bought most of the Beatles catalog for fucks sake. That was a serious flex. Get back to me when Twiggy there does something like that. I don't keep up so you may be back to me on that quickly. LOL.

Anyways, stop throwing shade. I don't think you are a bigot or a racist as some here accuse you of being. But you do have some confirmation bias that needs more self analysis/introspection IMO.

 

[Torn Mind]

I don't begrudge her that. The opposite I give her props for being so popular. My issue is with people willing to anoint her the greatest musical star ever. She had the advantage to peak in the era of social media. IMO that accounts for 40% of her popularity. One of the ways I judge, 30 years from now will anyone be playing any Taylor Swift song?

As for the Kelce thing this is one big publicity stunt. Everyone making money talking about them especially the NFL with all the interest from the Swifties. Two dead giveaways?

1. Bill Belichick is the king of saying nothing, but a reporter managed to get him to comment on them. Normally he would say, "Why do I care?"

2. Do you ever bring your S.O. to meet mother unless it's serious? If it was, they would have no problem admitting in public which nobody in their circle has.

The only reason I know so much I'm an Eagles fan and the TS/TK stuff is being shoved down our throats.

All that being said I hope she has a successful career which seems to be the case.

While I do not anticipate becoming a fan(as in fanatical) myself, I think at least one track will stick for a long while. "You Belong With Me" is one of those. It's not offensive, fairly pleasing to the ear, and well, the imagery is relatable, and it is already almost 15 years old.

I do think she might be a tad hyped up as far as how much ability she has. I certainly would never put her in the upper tier of physical ability nor "songwriting spontaneity".

Despite all that, I do think time the one strength in actual music, songwriting, she does have is one I consider unappreciated or underappreciated in general. The ability to make 1-8 notes in a song that people feel connected to and deeply about is actually not trivial. She basically invaded a substantial number of people's hearts and well, they love her for it, similar to her idol Shania. "You're Still the One" is not a super hard song but it gets people in the feels and triggers all sorts of nostalgia. Is there some halo effect going on because she helped her fans out in some way, be it psychologically? Yeah, probably. But I think there is some degree of merit in her music even if it is "simple" and I personally have my mind occupied by others who provide more.

A simple theme can be all that's needed to create an earworm. Mozart's Eine Kleine Nachtmusik is not his A game but it is the one that people think of when they hear his name. The concertos are the closest to his seeing his genius as soloist, the symphonies are more involved, the operas shows his ability to understand vocal writing, which infects practically all other works, but it's Eine Kleine's four movements that has stuck in popular culture. His K. 545 sonata might be his D game, intended not for public performance but to teach his pupils; but even that effort is a compelling work.

There is always some tension between making a commercial success versus exploring more than that in music. As I mentioned, even Beethoven had that conflict within his own body of work. What was "popular Beethoven" in his time not what people hear or musicians emphasize now. His Septet, his Andante favori(the original intended second movement to the Waldstein sonata) were two of those. The Septet now is placed on a respectable but lower rank than his symphonies in the current times. But back in the day, the Septet was his "Baby one More Time". The Andante favori has been completely forgotten despite it also having numerous arrangements and reductions back in his time, and that "he played it frequently in society".

The relationship with Kelce appears to have been initiated by Kelce. In fact, it appears he is a true Swiftie who got a friendship bracelet with his number on it with the intent of giving it to her...but wasn't able to meet her. Somehow after that, he managed to make a line of communication.

Now, there's also the matter of Kelce's position. He's a tight end, not a QB, so he's not exactly the face of the franchise or even a secondary showy player like a WR or CB. He's not the hottest guy in the world(although his face might actually match with Swift's preferences) nor exactly playing a position who would command attention.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not the type to immediately dismiss the possibility certain things are staged. But Swift probably has a full schedule and never lived the life of an "athlete's girl", so her basically sacrificing 3 hours plus of her time just to watch football [for a team she most likely never followed before, since she too is apparently an Eagles fan] is a degree of commitment she doesn't necessarily need to engage in.