well said. I can't think of a single politician on the left who doesn't lick their finger and proceed to see which way the wind is blowing before casting a vote. Then again, there aren't' many on the right either.
well said. I can't think of a single politician on the left who doesn't lick their finger and proceed to see which way the wind is blowing before casting a vote. Then again, there aren't' many on the right either.
What a mythical world senseamp created for himself. Democrats were obstructionists to Bush and the Republicans and what happened? They gained overwhelming majorities in both chambers and the white house. But when Republicans do the same the blame will be put on them lol.
GroundedSailor
Platinum Member
- Feb 18, 2001
- 2,502
- 0
- 76
Some one has to state the facts.
Somehow most people seem to ignore the reality of what is going on. The same foreign companies are protected and bailed out by their own Govt, whether by loans, subsidies, even UHC, and import restrictions (how many US cars do you see in Japan or Korea? or even Germany?).
Also on GM's sales figures:
"GM's record third quarter sales were driven by exceptionally strong demand in emerging markets and our improving competitiveness in developed markets. GM global sales of 7.06 million vehicles for the first nine months of the year reflects solid results and more than 2 percent growth. We're on track to have our second-best annual sales performance in our almost 100-year history,"
Mani
Diamond Member
- Aug 9, 2001
- 4,808
- 1
- 0
Keep living in your dream world. The fact is, the US hasn't been a complete free market for a VERY long time, and never will be. The bailout is a tiny amount of money to protect a huge part of this country's GDP. Emotional knee-jerk reactions like yours accomplish far less than the "partisan blamegame".
Mani
Diamond Member
- Aug 9, 2001
- 4,808
- 1
- 0
Wow, did you major in straw man? It's not the GOP's fault the Big 3 is in the shape they are in, but it is their fault if they go under at this point. The auto bailout is a confidence measure. It is a LOAN. And in Ford's case, it's not even that. It is not giving away countless billions that we will never see again. No need for a crystal ball - the reason why an Auto Czar is a part of the bailout is to see through a restructuring.
The fact is, the majority of the opposition to this bill comes not from economists, but from emotional, knee-jerk "they make crappy cars, why should we help them" reactions. Noone is asking to write the auto companies a blank check - they can start by just keeping them afloat.
BS. A "loan" to companies with a flawed and failing business model is not really a loan, it's simply a gift. In this case, it would be a gift to help prop up the unions. Throwing good money after bad is not the answer. I have yet to hear anyone give a good reason or explanation of how a $15 billion loan will fix ANY of the fundamental problems that have gotten the big three in this position. Will it fix stupid management? Nope. Will it fix union driven inflated labor costs? Nope. Will it fix the fact that their vehicles simply are not appealing to the marketplace? Nope. So all it does it pay the bills for a little bit, then they'll simply be back for another (bigger) "loan".
Mani
Diamond Member
- Aug 9, 2001
- 4,808
- 1
- 0
It's obvious that a 15B loan is not going to solve all of their problems, and of course it's inevitable they'll be back with their palms out in due time. But that's been the point of all the deliberation - putting a system of checks in place with the auto czar being accountable - to make sure auto companies are making progress toward becoming more competitive before coming back for round 2. That includes cutbacks of union benefits (who btw are currently negotiated at 30k/year salaries, far from ridiculous), management restructuring, and product line overhauls.
So what is your solution Pokerguy? Clearly you know something most economists do not. After you give us your credentials on this matter, explain why it would be good to let these companies fail. Thanks.
Edit: and don't give me the naive bullsh*t about "they should file for bankruptcy and come out leaner, meaner, and better in every way"
Puffnstuff
Lifer
- Mar 9, 2005
- 16,255
- 4,928
- 136
Well I for one would like to see exactly what changes have been made at the corporate and union levels to address the current situation since the B3 have asked for public funds. Then I'd like to see detailed plans on how they plan to further change during the period they are in possession of these public funds.
Exactly how do they propose to grow the business during this time of economic collapse?
How will prospective buyers get funding to buy their products?
What collateral are the B3 providing to the fed for these loans?
What will the next step be if the B3 fails to make the sales and earn a profit during the next quarter?
Just keep in mind that I'm a union worker who's employer has been shutting down mills during this last quarter since sales and the economy have slowed. We aren't receiving any government money to keep us operating forcing the workers onto unemployment.
I want to know why one industry qualifies for public funding while another one doesn't. Our products are everywhere you look yet we shut down because of the economy. The uaw isn't the only union body out there who's hurting and cars aren't the only domestically producted item that is not selling so get over it.
Exactly how do they propose to grow the business during this time of economic collapse?
How will prospective buyers get funding to buy their products?
What collateral are the B3 providing to the fed for these loans?
What will the next step be if the B3 fails to make the sales and earn a profit during the next quarter?
Just keep in mind that I'm a union worker who's employer has been shutting down mills during this last quarter since sales and the economy have slowed. We aren't receiving any government money to keep us operating forcing the workers onto unemployment.
I want to know why one industry qualifies for public funding while another one doesn't. Our products are everywhere you look yet we shut down because of the economy. The uaw isn't the only union body out there who's hurting and cars aren't the only domestically producted item that is not selling so get over it.
At least its coming out of Tarp. Not like they didn't intend to spend that money on something (probably worse) anyway.
Obstructionism? Is it now your position that George Bush was not the President for the past 2 years?
It's a shame Bush is rolling over for the unions who stabbed him in the back the past 8 years. They're like grovelling dogs.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Lol, and conversely it's a shame that people can't get past their management issues and "need" a union. Completely blinded to the consequences of their own lack of personal responsibility and individualism because their daddy hated the management or some other silly-assed piece of baggage they're carrying around.
My prediction??? Bush won't give GM or Chrysler any money unless the unions roll over and take financial hits. It's a game. Dick C. didn't meet behind closed doors with other Repub leaders to give into the unions. They want to break the back of the unions (and the rest of the middle class) and this poor economy is how they intend to do it.
Perfect logic to slash worker wages when the economy turns down. And when the economy turns up again, working people will have to fight even harder to get any wage increases back while the fat cats continue to make tons of $$$ with a bad or good economy.
Perfect logic to slash worker wages when the economy turns down. And when the economy turns up again, working people will have to fight even harder to get any wage increases back while the fat cats continue to make tons of $$$ with a bad or good economy.
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