Read Chapter 11 and you shall learn.
The UAW already has a signed contract where new workers will be starting at $14/hr - which is under $30/yr. Under $30k a year, while having to do your job perfect each time, in difficult conditions, anywhere around 450-550 vehicles per day.
I think that's concession enough.
On top of that, the UAW also has pension and healthcare responsibilities going forward, not the Big 3.
The problem here is not the F'ing difference UAW workers make vs. the in-country foreign employed auto workers, it's certain politicians and the Big 3 seeing an opportunity to break the backs of the UAW, and the UAW not signing up for it.
What happens to the non-Southern (where the cost of living is higher, hence higher pay is required) plants if the UAW takes another pay cut? That's right: All those non-Southern plants shutter - because you will find no one in those communities who will do that work for that little pay, and they'll all go either overseas or South.
Win Win for the Big 3, win win for the South...bad for everyone else.
Oh...that $700B package we're all going to have to pay taxes on to fund: Yeah, those middle class UAW workers who are in that large % bearing the brunt of that won't be around to chip in their % when they're making South wages - and the jobs that go overseas won't be paying any....good going there genius's. :thumbsup:
Chuck
I think that's concession enough.
On top of that, the UAW also has pension and healthcare responsibilities going forward, not the Big 3.
The problem here is not the F'ing difference UAW workers make vs. the in-country foreign employed auto workers, it's certain politicians and the Big 3 seeing an opportunity to break the backs of the UAW, and the UAW not signing up for it.
What happens to the non-Southern (where the cost of living is higher, hence higher pay is required) plants if the UAW takes another pay cut? That's right: All those non-Southern plants shutter - because you will find no one in those communities who will do that work for that little pay, and they'll all go either overseas or South.
Win Win for the Big 3, win win for the South...bad for everyone else.
Oh...that $700B package we're all going to have to pay taxes on to fund: Yeah, those middle class UAW workers who are in that large % bearing the brunt of that won't be around to chip in their % when they're making South wages - and the jobs that go overseas won't be paying any....good going there genius's. :thumbsup:
Chuck
I am so sick and fucking tired of every issue turning into a partisan blamegame. Fuck both parties, neither one is consistent. When the financial bailout didn't pass the first time, all kinds of pork had to be added to buy enough votes. Figure it out already. It doesn't change the fact that the bailout is garbage that REDISTRIBUTES money from viable business to unviable ones. What about all the millions of jobs you destroy to "save" these ones, Mani? You can't keep blinding yourself to costs.
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
They don't manufacture in the US, They insource assembly to get huge tax breaks, land and other goodies while showing no profit thus no taxes via ?transfer pricing? a practice where a foreign parent company charges its American subsidiary excessive prices for components and other inputs from home country. It's just gaming states against one another and in the process subsidizing foreign companies to put our own companies out of business.
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
Not only is there no evidence, but if they are in as bad shape as they claim, only a fool would bet against it; $14B was a short term patch, nothing more than a battlefield dressing. The big 3's future hinges upon magnitudes more than that, so I hope nobody thinks that if/when the Big 3 fail it was because of a paltry $14B that the GOP said no to.
Red Dawn
Elite Member
- Jun 4, 2001
- 57,529
- 3
- 0
14 B is a mere pittance when compared to the money wasted on Iraq, you can bet thyat the Bush Admin will give it to them just so their legacy won't be that of the Administration the was in \charge when America lost it's last large scale manufacturers.
i do not know what i will do if I watch GM and Chrysler go down... im not in the best place to be when two major players fold and Ford tries not to follow.
boomerang
Lifer
- Jun 19, 2000
- 18,883
- 641
- 126
If it's any consolation, you're not going to be alone. You'll have about 3 million of us in the same boat with you.
I think it's important to remember that the same people that are putting on this high stakes dog and pony show are responsible for the mess we're in today. They removed nearly all of the controls and regulations on the financial markets. Controls and regulations that were put in place after intensive investigations following the Great Depression. They were removed because they were 'hindering the markets'. The financial meltdown was the result. These fuckers should be tarred and feathered.
I'd really like to see the details of what brought this agreement down. The way the numbers work out for me, the UAW would have had to accept a 66% wage cut. I know, I know, some of you are going to say that a job at any pay is better than none. When you've got a family to support with a mortgage, car payments, insurance, braces for the kids, etc., a cut of that kind is unthinkable. Unemployment pays far better than that.
Essentially the GOP is just getting their rocks off bullying workers around. They've sealed their fate now. If this shakes out the way it appears it will, they'll have difficulty getting elected for a decade or more. That's language even they should be able to understand.
Ohhh boy, yet more lame ass libertopian "free market" bullcrap. Look sparky, both Ford and GM has proven they can be viable, they just need to cram down the unions and debt. Simple, effective, and quick.
Name a single domestic car company that we can redistribute the money/manpower to and not have unemployment spike to 15% within months.
My god, did you overdose on "stupid" pills again?
Just because money has already been wasted on one thing (Iraq), it's fine to waste more, just because it's on a smaller scale? :roll:
A bailout should ONLY happen if it creates a situation where the auto industry can survive in the long run. Allowing a failed model to continue by propping it up with more money is idiotic. The unions are not the sole problem, but they're a big part of it. The big 3 need to go under and come back without the unions to have any chance long term.
I called my senator to tell him I support him standing up against the stupid union pandering bailout.
Yeah, 'cause we have all sorts of guarantees that this bailout would save those jobs for more than a month or two, right? And, we also have a crystal ball that tells us if we don't bail these companies out, they will completely vanish, they won't restructure and survive in a more efficient way :roll:
And, of course, it must all be the GOP's fault, after all, they are the ones who made the big 3 fail </sarcasm>
Is this how we are going to justify spending tax payers money for the rest of eternity? Well if it costs less than Iraq then vote yes!
And what makes you believe if we let them file for bankruptcy all of their assets will disappear?
StageLeft
No Lifer
- Sep 29, 2000
- 70,150
- 5
- 0
They contributed to removal of regulations, but the plain and undeniable reality is that the Big 3 have been losing market share at an astonishing rate for many years. They were already heading toward doom, this merely accelerated it.
And to expect union workers to get down to non-union, i.e. fair market rates is perfectly reasonable, otherwise this becomes nothing more than state charity to keep them in positions the market says they otherwise do not deserve. Nonetheless, speaking of high stakes, the union made a gamble and lost; if the big 3 do collapse the union workers will wish they had accepted non-union salaries.
$10+ billion for a few hundred bank exec's "retention" compensation, but can't
afford $15 billion to help a few hundred thousand working people.
the nation has it's priorities in the right place. not.
afford $15 billion to help a few hundred thousand working people.
the nation has it's priorities in the right place. not.
No they wont. The average american is against the auto bailout. Just like they were and still are against the bank bailout.
Ford and GM arent anywhere near bankruptcy.
Chrysler on the other hand is a sinking ship and bailout or not it probably wont make it.
Modelworks
Lifer
- Feb 22, 2007
- 16,240
- 7
- 76
If they get money from Tarp does that mean the auto companies get the money without the restrictions they would have had with the bailout ?
I'm just thinking outside the box. The auto makers know that they can't be allowed to fail. The senate knows that people were not for a bailout. They both go through the motions, then the president comes out and saves the day. They all win.
I'm just thinking outside the box. The auto makers know that they can't be allowed to fail. The senate knows that people were not for a bailout. They both go through the motions, then the president comes out and saves the day. They all win.
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