Buffer Zones (abortion clinics) and Anthony Scalia's opening arguments

[fskimospy]

Am I wrong?

Do low income make up the majority of those wanting abortion services?

Are the majority of planned parenthood clinics setup so they can provide services to low income areas?

Nowhere in there did I say "all".

Low income people are significantly more likely to get abortions than people from other groups, but it is nowhere near the 'vast majority'. If I remember right a bit over half of all abortions come from low income women.

 

[Oldgamer]

Poverty and poor life choices go hand-in-hand.

Regardless of financial status, a life is a life.

I guess you missed my sarcasm.

 

[Oldgamer]

Low income people are significantly more likely to get abortions than people from other groups, but it is nowhere near the 'vast majority'. If I remember right a bit over half of all abortions come from low income women.

Not really, you just don't have the full statistics on those who have money and means to get abortions and not have to go to the clinics. Man there was an article online somewhere that talked about this. I am going to have to find it.

 

[fskimospy]

Not really, you just don't have the full statistics on those who have money and means to get abortions and not have to go to the clinics. Man there was an article online somewhere that talked about this. I am going to have to find it.

There's research into the demographics of those who get abortions and poor people are definitely much more likely to get them. When you think about things it just makes sense. Married people are less likely to get abortions and marriage correlates with higher income. Higher income people generally have greater access to contraception, which also correlates with fewer abortions, etc, etc.

The idea that the 'vast majority' of people getting abortions are poor is wrong, but they are still substantially more likely to get them than higher income people.

 

[nehalem256]

Fun abortion history fact:

In the 1950s, about a million illegal abortions a year were performed in the U.S., and over a thousand women died each year as a result. Women who were victims of botched or unsanitary abortions came in desperation to hospital emergency wards, where some died of widespread abdominal infections. Many women who recovered from such infections found themselves sterile or chronically and painfully ill. The enormous emotional stress often lasted a long time.

You do realize your argument makes absolutely no sense from a pro-life perspective. Arguing that murders might die while committing murder therefore we should legalize murder is beyond stupid.

 

[Texashiker]

Low income people are significantly more likely to get abortions than people from other groups, but it is nowhere near the 'vast majority'. If I remember right a bit over half of all abortions come from low income women.

Around 60+% are minorities
42% are below the poverty line.
Low income woman is 5X more likely to have an abortion as compared to a high income woman.

http://www.guttmacher.org/media/inthenews/2013/01/08/index.html

When 60% of something is happening, the government would consider that an epidemic.

I guess you missed my sarcasm.

Yes I did.

 

[Oldgamer]

Most women, (and I am still looking for the article I read some time ago) who have income (middle class to upper class) do not go to abortion clinics. They go to their personal OBGYN and have their procedure at the local hospital that the OBGYN has admitting privileges at, or their personal clinics. People target the Planned Parent Hood type of clinics because they have been the focus of protesters, but most don't realize how many abortions are actually performed on middle to upper class white women. The OBGYN's are not obligated to report any type of statistics on these abortions since they are not getting any type of state or federal funding, nor getting non profit donations. That is what I recall from the article. Anyway, it is a misconception that the majority of abortions are from low income women. Because of this there is under reporting, and distortion of facts. Oh, forgot to add, women who work and have adequate insurance (most insurance companies do cover abortion), they just pay the portion of the procedure through insurance. The insurance companies are not required to give any statistics on the number of abortion procedures they cover either.

 

[fskimospy]

You do realize your argument makes absolutely no sense from a pro-life perspective. Arguing that murders might die while committing murder therefore we should legalize murder is beyond stupid.

It makes perfect sense. Research has shown no connection between the legality of abortion and how often abortions take place in a given country. There is a connection between the legality of abortion and safety of abortion, however.

Considering that making abortion illegal doesn't make for fewer abortions, if you're truly pro-life you would want to make as few people die during the procedure as possible.

 

[Texashiker]

Most women, (and I am still looking for the article I read some time ago) who have income (middle class to upper class) do not go to abortion clinics. They go to their personal OBGYN and have their procedure at the local hospital that the OBGYN has admitting privileges at, or their personal clinics.

Your theory does not hold water.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/01/us-abortions-idUSTRE7804JN20110901

In a survey of 1,144 ob-gyns, researchers found that while 97 percent said they'd had patients who sought abortions, only 14 percent ever provided them.

14% is not a very high number.

 

[brycejones]

Good grief TH start a thread about the morality of Abortion if you want to argue that. This is about buffer zones and restricted speech within those zones.

 

[Oldgamer]

Your theory does not hold water.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/01/us-abortions-idUSTRE7804JN20110901



14% is not a very high number.

Reuters is wrong, I am telling you. It may be that only recently this is happening due to all the states shutting down abortion clinics through trap laws and all the crap concerning abortion and the ACA. But these physicians are not required to talk about their patients and what procedures they have performed if they don't want to. I don't believe either of the two articles that you linked. Sorry.

 

[Oldgamer]

Good grief TH start a thread about the morality of Abortion if you want to argue that. This is about buffer zones and restricted speech within those zones.

LOL

I am sooo glad you are bringing this back on topic! Now about that buffer zone!:\

 

[Texashiker]

I don't believe either of the two articles that you linked. Sorry.

It's ok.

Find the article you are referring to and lets go from there.

Buffer zone, the only clear answer is where the property lines start and stop.

 

[pauldun170]

Most women, (and I am still looking for the article I read some time ago) who have income (middle class to upper class) do not go to abortion clinics. They go to their personal OBGYN and have their procedure at the local hospital that the OBGYN has admitting privileges at, or their personal clinics.

Unless OBGYN's priviledges are at a Hospital with a "Saint" in front of the name.
Income doesn't matter if the doctor you've gone to for years is affiliated with a Catholic hospital. Many will not perform abortions on site.
If you cross that threshhold where you need hospital facilities, your Audi\MB\BMW\Lexus will be parked right next to the beat up Hyundais\Chevy's in the clinic parking lot.


Just putting that out there...

 

[MrPickins]

Buffer zone, the only clear answer is where the property lines start and stop.

Then you should also be opposed to any buffer zone for protesters, including those in AZ for Westboro nuts, the zone in front of the Supreme Court, and those near presidential appearances.

No response to this?

Are you against all of these buffer zones (you know, the ones that are an order of magnitude larger than the one being discussed)?

 

[MrPickins]

Unless OBGYN's priviledges are at a Hospital with a "Saint" in front of the name.
Income doesn't matter if the doctor you've gone to for years is affiliated with a Catholic hospital. Many will not perform abortions on site.
If you cross that threshhold where you need hospital facilities, your Audi\MB\BMW\Lexus will be parked right next to the beat up Hyundais\Chevy's in the clinic parking lot.


Just putting that out there...

A rich woman would most likely find another ObGyn.

 

[fskimospy]

No response to this?

Are you against all of these buffer zones (you know, the ones that are an order of magnitude larger than the one being discussed)?

He only wants to protect speech he agrees with.

 

[Texashiker]

No response to this?

Are you against all of these buffer zones (you know, the ones that are an order of magnitude larger than the one being discussed)?

I am opposed to all buffer zones on public property.

The right of the people to peacefully assemble should not be infringed.

 

[bshole]

I am opposed to all buffer zones on public property.

The right of the people to peacefully assemble should not be infringed.

Well the question is when does peacful assemblage turn into bullying? And what recourse is there when protestors cross that line?

A frustrated Yaletown store owner says animal rights activists who have been protesting outside his store for two months have crossed the line to bullying and harassment.

Brooklyn Clothing, a men’s boutique on Davie Street near Homer, has been the target of a small but vocal crowd of anti-fur protesters from the Vancouver Animal Defence League since November.

“I have no issue with them protesting,” said Jason Overbo Wednesday, as about half a dozen demonstrators chanted and waved placards outside. “The problems I have are with the noise levels and the aggression and harassment.”

http://www.theprovince.com/news/Ani...aletown+store+owner+claims/9365445/story.html

 

[Texashiker]

Well the question is when does peacful assemblage turn into bullying? And what recourse is there when protestors cross that line?

A frustrated Yaletown store owner says animal rights activists who have been protesting outside his store for two months have crossed the line to bullying and harassment.

I think it depends on the situation.

Is a childs life on par with an animals life?

 

[Oldgamer]

I think it depends on the situation.

Is a childs life on par with an animals life?

/facepalm

 

[bshole]

I think it depends on the situation.

Is a childs life on par with an animals life?

Ok I think I got it. Its peaceful assemblage if you spit on a 15 year old impoverished girl who attempts to enter an abortion facility. Its bullying if you spit on a wealthy lady entering a store to get a fur coat. Jesus dude, we need you on the Supreme Court.

 

[Texashiker]

Ok I think I got it. Its peaceful assemblage if you spit on a 15 year old impoverished girl who attempts to enter an abortion facility.

No

Its bullying if you spit on a wealthy lady entering a store to get a fur coat. Jesus dude, we need you on the Supreme Court.

And no. You do not get it.

I specifically said "peacefully" assemble. Do you know what peacefully means?

 

[MrPickins]

I specifically said "peacefully" assemble. Do you know what peacefully means?

Pro-lifers assembling outside of abortion clinics are very often not peaceful, though. Read the article posted earlier in the thread for just a few examples.

 

[Texashiker]

Pro-lifers assembling outside of abortion clinics are very often not peaceful, though. Read the article posted earlier in the thread for just a few examples.

We should restrict the many for the actions of a few?