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BREAKING NEWS!!!--- Israel to bar UN fact-finding team from entering

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Touchy huh??? Thats what you said was it not??
I don`t think I misread your post........
So you refuse to say NO, THATS NOT WHAT I MEANT???

Hmmmm...so you do think that what happenned to the jews during WWII was deserved...okay so be it.......

Defamation and libel......say it isn`t so thats all you have to do......instead you agree with the events of WWII...okay.....

Sorry for getting off the posted topic.....

Obviously, your need to repeat & elaborate your original libel indicates that you're desperate, even more desperate than in the thread you had locked. You fail at your mission, the mission of Israeli propaganda if you can't acknowledge that the rightful accusation of libel against you isn't repudiation of your claim. Resorting to malicious character assassination reveals the defects of your own character & the emptiness of your argument, reflecting badly on the cause you serve so zealously.

For one who seeks to shame others into submission, you seem to have none of your own.
 
Israel s acting like Iran and there is again an hypocrisy and applause for Israel. This shame is on you !
 
He requested the thread be locked



Heh, I like that
There definitively would be a different tune being sung here if Israel was a Muslim majority country, like their new best friends in the region

If Israel was a Muslim majority country it would likely not be a democracy like it is now.

There would also not been several wars where the Arabs tried to kill all the Israelies but lost.

How about we pretend Europe is not filled with Europeans...or China is not filled with Chinese...or it is not forbidden to build a church or synagogue in Mecca...or that the US is actually populated with Wookies...
 
Here comes the leader of the ATPN war on Islam.
lol ')

You mean like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azerbaijan ?
They have no problem with the UNHRC
Why does Israel trust them enough build and trade weapons with?

That is easy. Azerbaijan actively roots out Iranian terrorists and captures them.

A month after a terror attack against Israelis was foiled in Azerbaijan, local authorities have arrested a terrorist cell whose members belonged to the Hizbullah terror group and held Iranian passports.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/153013

You can trust people who actively root out and capture the people trying to kill you.
 
For one who seeks to shame others into submission, you seem to have none of your own.
You don't seem to be any less zealous concerning your own position, Jhhnn. That's not to mention that you, and a few others in here, have completely disregarded the elephant in the room, which is that the UNHRC has been co-opted and politicized by a few members who want to persue their own agenda.

Then again, their agenda and bias seems to match your own so maybe it's not much of a surprise. /shrug
 
Obviously, your need to repeat & elaborate your original libel indicates that you're desperate, even more desperate than in the thread you had locked. You fail at your mission, the mission of Israeli propaganda if you can't acknowledge that the rightful accusation of libel against you isn't repudiation of your claim. Resorting to malicious character assassination reveals the defects of your own character & the emptiness of your argument, reflecting badly on the cause you serve so zealously.

For one who seeks to shame others into submission, you seem to have none of your own.

You see we are sort of like the Israeli`s and the Palestinians....
You expect me to acknowledge what did you call it libel?

Yet even when you were presented with irrefutable proof that you
lied and misled and used articles that were several years old to attempt to mislead and defend your misguided position you would not even admit that you had lied and misled and misrepresented the truth......


If you know the meaning of the words -OFF TOPIC....
Then you will know that I had the thread locked because it had gone totally off topic.......what was the sense of arguing over and over things that had absolutely nothing to do with the article that the thread was based on???

So here we go again...round and round.....


Since when do things like "Gitmo"....the camp David accord....the US Supreme Court...Iran.....Saudi Arabia ...the mullahs.....the EU......

Since when does any of the above have anything to do with Israel denying access to the HRC???

If you stick with the premise of the article in both threads including the locked thread and this thread....they have nothing to do and even the so-called comparisons between Iran denying the IEAE access to all their facilities has nothing at all to do with the HRC and Israel......

YES!! It was locked and reasonably so....off topic is off topic.

For some reason it doesn`t matter what is posted about Israel or for that matter the Palestinians every thread gets taken off track; maybe even intentionally by the same people in their zeal as devoted members of their cause to cast stones at the other party.

I would dare say it is NOT even possible to post anything about the Middle East without somebody posting nonsense that has nothing to do with the original premise of what was posted.

This is not a callout at all of anybody; but some people who post are so long winded that in their zeal to defend the other side just the very nature of their response lends itself to being off the beaten path so to speak...

But I am honored that certain people would cry foul that I asked for my thread to be closed!!!

Shalom!!



 
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hmm God certainly didn't keep his word to Israel.

Ezekiel 28

24 And there shall be no more a pricking brier unto the house of Israel, nor any grieving thorn of all that are round about them, that despised them; and they shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
25 Thus saith the Lord GOD; When I shall have gathered the house of Israel from the people among whom they are scattered, and shall be sanctified in them in the sight of the heathen, then shall they dwell in their land that I have given to my servant Jacob.
26 And they shall dwell safely therein, and shall build houses, and plant vineyards; yea, they shall dwell with confidence, when I have executed judgments upon all those that despise them round about them; and they shall know that I am the LORD their God.
 
Is Israel violating law with their settlements? Yes. Is the HRC the right body (in that their investigation would be impartial and would carry weight with the international community) to investigate the situation? Absolutely not. Simple as that.
 
Is Israel violating law with their settlements? Yes. Is the HRC the right body (in that their investigation would be impartial and would carry weight with the international community) to investigate the situation? Absolutely not. Simple as that.

Then who would be the right body to investigate?
 
Then who would be the right body to investigate?

With the HCR effectively out of the running, there probably isn't one. The fault for that body being discredited instead of being able to produce useful work falls squarely in the lap of Syria et al.
 
With the HCR effectively out of the running, there probably isn't one. The fault for that body being discredited instead of being able to produce useful work falls squarely in the lap of Syria et al.

So Israel gets a pass because there's nobody you'll grant the credibility to bust them, even though you acknowledge they're in the wrong. Round & round in the circular logic of obfuscation until the conclusion is... Catch 22.
 
You know as well as I do that Israel is recognized worldwide as a serial violator of human rights, the Geneva Conventions, the ICCPR, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and so on and so forth. No one, not even the United States, disputes the illegality of their settlement activities. In fact the United States regularly joins in the universal condemnation of settlement activity. Why are you trying to defend their outrageous behavior?

The investigation will take place under the mantle of OHCHR and the investigator is appointed by Uruguay. Do you think Uruguay has some axe to grind with Israel that will make it appoint someone biased and unfair? Why would they bother anyway? Everyone knows they will find gross violations of treaty obligations and human rights, it's not a secret.

If this were anyone but Israel flipping out because a human rights body was attempting to take them to task for universally agreed upon violations of human rights, they wouldn't have a single defender. I simply do not understand why it is so hard to recognize that a country which has many admirable qualities also in this case has a a few absolutely despicable ones.

We've discussed this before and I think you're being obtuse. This body has put disproportionate focus on Israel. It hardly even investigated any other country between 2006, the year it was founded, and 2009, when the U.S. joined and insisted that it investigate other countries. Israel is hardly the worst violator of human rights on the planet.

And furthermore, this body has previously investigated Israel over the same issues. And since you yourself have said that everyone knows the result, why are they bothering to do this again? Your "gross violations" bias aside, you've admitted that the entire exercise is a waste of time and resources. I agree with the decision not to let them in.

- wolf
 
The lands are disputed territory and housing is allowed to be built in disputed territory. Many nations are currently doing it.

Which nations?

We need also to realize that all of the west bank & Gaza are "disputed territory", so by your reasoning, Israel can just take it all, or as much as they want.

UN resolutions deny that the territory is disputed at all, but rather call for Israel to withdraw to the 1967 borders...
 
We've discussed this before and I think you're being obtuse. This body has put disproportionate focus on Israel. It hardly even investigated any other country between 2006, the year it was founded, and 2009, when the U.S. joined and insisted that it investigate other countries. Israel is hardly the worst violator of human rights on the planet.

And furthermore, this body has previously investigated Israel over the same issues. And since you yourself have said that everyone knows the result, why are they bothering to do this again? Your "gross violations" bias aside, you've admitted that the entire exercise is a waste of time and resources. I agree with the decision not to let them in.

- wolf

So you're just arguing against investigation into human rights violations on efficiency standards? I'm certain that is a position for the UN budget office to make, not the parties being investigated for violations themselves.

I'm sorry, but I believe your affinity for Israel is clouding your judgment. I find it highly unlikely that if this were any state other than Israel that you would be siding with the violating party's decision to bar international scrutiny on their illegal behavior.

Finally, while you might think the term 'gross violations' is biased, Israel has been vehemently condemned for war crimes, human rights violations, violations of the Geneva Conventions, and so on and so forth by a huge range of national and international bodies including every western nation, basically every relevant UN body, international human rights organizations like Amnesty International, the Red Cross, and so on and so on. I think it is quite a fair description.

Will you at least admit that Israel is a serial human rights violator that should be investigated, even if the HRC is not your preferred body?
 
What's another UN violation. What do they care. Israel could literally go around nuking 3rd world countries and nothing would get done about it.
 
Which nations?

We need also to realize that all of the west bank & Gaza are "disputed territory", so by your reasoning, Israel can just take it all, or as much as they want.

UN resolutions deny that the territory is disputed at all, but rather call for Israel to withdraw to the 1967 borders...

1) Many of the UN resolutions were pushed through by the Arabs and Russia against Israel, but few were directed against the Arabs and Palestinians.

2) The Arabs/Palestinians have routinely broken the UN resolutions without any repercussions.

3) Whose territory is the West Bank - Jordan? Gaza - Egypt? Neither wants it - it is a vacuum; The Palestinians did not want it until Israel had control of it. We know that nature abhors a vacuum - something moves in to fill it. Israel gave internal control back to Gaza and that did not help - it made things worse.
 
The lands are disputed territory and housing is allowed to be built in disputed territory. Many nations are currently doing it.

And it's probably wrong and illegal in most if not all of the situations.

So Israel gets a pass because there's nobody you'll grant the credibility to bust them, even though you acknowledge they're in the wrong. Round & round in the circular logic of obfuscation until the conclusion is... Catch 22.

Yes, they get a pass because the UN doesn't have the credibility to investigate them. What's being obfuscated here? That is simply the reality of the situation. The entire concept of these bodies is use their sufficient reputation and reports to shame a nation into changing their behaviour. That is simply not going to happen with the current makeup of the HRC.
 
Which nations?

We need also to realize that all of the west bank & Gaza are "disputed territory", so by your reasoning, Israel can just take it all, or as much as they want.

UN resolutions deny that the territory is disputed at all, but rather call for Israel to withdraw to the 1967 borders...

You're wasting your time, there's a fairly long thread on this where he tried the same bullshit in the past. Simply put, the highest bodies in international law have deemed the settlement activity to be illegal. That really ends the argument from an international law standpoint.
 
Which nations?

We need also to realize that all of the west bank & Gaza are "disputed territory", so by your reasoning, Israel can just take it all, or as much as they want.

UN resolutions deny that the territory is disputed at all, but rather call for Israel to withdraw to the 1967 borders...
You're wasting your time, there's a fairly long thread on this where he tried the same bullshit in the past. Simply put, the highest bodies in international law have deemed the settlement activity to be illegal. That really ends the argument from an international law standpoint.

Yet no one can say why the '67 borders are any more relevant than the '73 or '48.

And they want the borders before the Arabs planned attacks on Israel; not afterwards.
Essentially being rewarded again for failure. :thumbsdown:
 
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So you're just arguing against investigation into human rights violations on efficiency standards? I'm certain that is a position for the UN budget office to make, not the parties being investigated for violations themselves.

I'm sorry, but I believe your affinity for Israel is clouding your judgment. I find it highly unlikely that if this were any state other than Israel that you would be siding with the violating party's decision to bar international scrutiny on their illegal behavior.

Finally, while you might think the term 'gross violations' is biased, Israel has been vehemently condemned for war crimes, human rights violations, violations of the Geneva Conventions, and so on and so forth by a huge range of national and international bodies including every western nation, basically every relevant UN body, international human rights organizations like Amnesty International, the Red Cross, and so on and so on. I think it is quite a fair description.

Will you at least admit that Israel is a serial human rights violator that should be investigated, even if the HRC is not your preferred body?

And I think your lack of affinity for Israel that is a product of political leftism is clouding your judgment and causing you to be an apologist for hypocrisy. There, now that we both have that out of the way, we can discuss the substance of the matter.

The answer to your question is yes, I would support any other nation being investigated by this body, or any other body, if the body had a track record of bias against that particular nation. Even a nation like Saudi Arabia, who I believe has a far worse track record than Israel. At first I would support such investigation as long overdue. However, if the organization went on for years investigating only Saudi Arabia and ignoring everyone else, eventually I would say, enough is enough.

This particular agency was formed in 2006 and for its first three years it did virtually nothing but investigate Israel. And incidentally, I did not have any initial objection to its earliest investigations because it wasn't yet clear that this organization had only one purpose. It only started investigating other countries at the insistence of the Obama administration in 2009.

Something was wrong with this organization right from its inception. It apparently was conceived for the entire purpose of degrading world opinion of Israel, while at the same time providing distraction from the human rights violations of other nations, and it hides under the guise of the UN and a name that suggests a broader purpose. As such, it either needs to be reformed and re-purposed toward a broader goal and heightened objectivity or else disbanded.

Your explanation of the phrase "gross violations of human rights" is a fallacy and another sidestep of the hypocrisy issue. "Gross" is inherently relative. No nation has a perfect track record on human rights. Predictably, you do not cite the facts on the ground and draw a comparison with other nations on the question of human rights. Instead, you cite how many times the UN has issued resolutions condemning Israel. I'm sorry, but the UN is a political body and its actions reflect the political agenda of its member states. That much should be obvious. I don't necessarily have a problem with the use of the word "gross" in this context, so long as we are given some wider perspective to clarify what it means.

There is a serious issue of disproportion and hypocrisy that is not being addressed here by Israel's critics. The issue is not subtle but glaring, and it isn't only this particular UN agency or the UN in general. It extends way beyond the UN. Until it is answered in a substantive and logical manner, I will continue to not give Israel's critics the time of day because they are not discussing the matter in good faith. I can and am critical of Israeli policies on my own but this is a threshold issue for me.

As for organizations like Amnesty, I don't know their track records with respect to proportion but I know enough to conclude that they are at least somewhat better than the UN. They have condemned many nations. It still doesn't answer the question of why Israel's conduct is particularly egregious in the wider scheme of things. I would suggest looking over a sampling of Amnesty reports and seeing if we can really justify singling Israel out for "gross" violations of human rights. The evidence of appalling behavior on the part of other nations is right there in their reports.
 
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