Brawl at Walmart

[AHamick]

It seems as though every interaction with police that involves a physical altercation results in a 'civilian' death.

I would wager the problem with your statement is the "every"

You can find PLENTY of videos of police alterations where no one dies. Your statement was over exaggerated or a deliberate trolling lie.

 

[NoStateofMind]

I would wager the problem with your statement is the "every"

You can find PLENTY of videos of police alterations where no one dies. Your statement was over exaggerated or a deliberate trolling lie.

You'd have to ignore the caveat of 'it seems' and that of 'physical altercation'. You do that? Yeah you're right but by then its not even a sentence.

 

[AHamick]

If it "seems" to YOU that every physical altercation with the police ends in a "civilian" death then the problem is your perception. Or Honesty.

 

[NoStateofMind]

If it "seems" to YOU that every physical altercation with the police beds in a "civilian" death then the problem is your perception. Or Honesty.

You can keep beating on that door if you'd like. Its the wrong one.

Do you need someone to define the meaning of 'it seems'? You really are getting more of my time than you deserve. In fact believe what you like. Say what you like. I care not.

 

[DrPizza]

You can keep beating on that door if you'd like. Its the wrong one.

Do you need someone to define the meaning of 'it seems'? You really are getting more of my time than you deserve. In fact believe what you like. Say what you like. I care not.

So, it seems to you that nationwide, there are only 3 physical altercations with police per day? Gee, that sounds a little too good to be true.


It seems to me that every time I buy a lottery ticket, I win.
It seems to me that every single car on the road is a 1987 Buick.
It seems that every bird that flies by my house is a bald eagle.
It seems to me that it's 20 degrees every day.
It seems to me that NoStateOfMind is attempting to back peddle by weaseling out with a claim that "it seems" makes any sentence logically correct.

 

[Darwin333]

You are such a raging moron.

The cop clearly walks up and says "We need to separate these people and talk to them" , at which point one of the inbred fuck nuggets starts throwing punches.
People who instigate fights and are continuing to act confrontational and irrational do not get to set the terms of how and when the police are going to talk to them, after an assault and criminal complaint has already come in and officers are already on scene.

Seeing how the situation didn't play out well for anyone, including the cops, I think he has a valid point. No one is saying that the perps get to set the terms just that the cops used piss poor tactics in this case as proven by the results.

 

[Darwin333]

The fact remains the cops have ta duty to investigate and the authority to detain certain individuals during that investigation. That includes separating suspects from their supporters/protectors. I don't know what the first officers on scene knew about the initial assault but it's possible they needed to single out anyone involved and get them away from other who would hinder the cops from taking police action against them.

"The results of the situation" is due purely to the actions of the family members who violently attacked police officers who were doing exactly what they have the authority to do. They attacked the cops, they tried to disarm them that resulted in an officer being shot, their violent and murderous behaviour forced cops to shoot at least two of them. This is the family's fault. Not the cops.

If you are lawfully detained by the police they have the authority to hold you and control your movements. This means removing you from a car, seating you in a chair/on the curb/in the back seat of a car/etc. Refusal to comply is a crime. The orders to separate were reasonable and lawful. Not only did they refuse But they attacked police officers who attempted to separate them.

I don't think anyone is trying to argue what the mob did was right or that the police didn't have the legal right to do what they did. They are trying to argue that a better approach to the situation would have resulted in a much better ending for all involved and that is including the police officers.

 

[DrDoug]

IMO the biggest mistake the police made was one of ego; they waded into a bad situation without taking time to properly assess it, probably under the assumption that their authority would be respected. They ran into some crazies who didn't give a shit about their authority and who had no problem jumping the cops. They thought they were taking control of the situation and ended up losing it.

Essentially, piss poor training and no common sense. Poor people skills too...lol

 

[Darwin333]

The cops showed a LOT of restraint.

the family started the fight. the cops used batons, spray and tazers. Those did not work

It wasn't until one of the idiotic family members tried to take a gun from a officer and shot him in the leg was deadly force used.

within a minute of that all members of the Gaver family were in custody.


The cops did good.

I will agree that once the situation got out of hand, the cops did a very good job at trying to not use deadly force.

And I'm not saying the police were wrong in any of my arguments, I'm simply saying that better tactics could have been employed. Yes hindsight is 20/20 but I personally think that cops are not trained adequately on how to defuse situations. It seems they prefer to use brute force (be it verbal or physical) right off the bat, escalating the situation trying to deescalate it. Not necessarily saying that is what happened here but it does have parallels

 

[kage69]

It's amazing how if you're white, you can continually assault a police officer without getting shot, but if you're black...

Please don't make stupid blanket statements, you hurt your own credibility doing so.

An example off the top of my head which was relatively recent and had it's own thread here:

https://news.vice.com/article/body-...-with-snow-shovel-before-utah-police-shooting

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2416107&highlight=utah+shooting&page=3

 

[touchstone]

Please don't make stupid blanket statements, you hurt your own credibility doing so.

An example off the top of my head which was relatively recent and had it's own thread here:

https://news.vice.com/article/body-...-with-snow-shovel-before-utah-police-shooting

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2416107&highlight=utah+shooting&page=3

So you are going to tell us that if this had been a black family who had attacked a bunch of cops, that they would have waited three full minutes and until one of there coworkers was shot before even shooting ONE of them? Please.


Let me try and explain it to all you: Cops brutalize both white and black americans. Nobody is arguing that you are not going to find tons of cases of white guys being beat and shot and abused by cops, just like that white guy who got beat for stealing that horse. That said, black people are brutalized far more, and under far more dubious circumstances, than white people. White people have a certain amount of leeway when dealing with SOME cops that just isn't there for blacks. So stop freaking out about how somebody could possibly suggest that life isn't just as hard for you as it is for DaQueel in his tenament in detroit. I'm sure your life is hard too, ok? We recognize you as a white man who has had a tough life, and we sympathize.


As to the topic at hand, I also don't think anybody here is suggesting that the cops were not in their legal rights to do everything they did. They certainly were, and I don't think they should be prosecuted at all. What is concerning is the lack of professional judgement and even more concerning, physical ability on the part of the cops. They weren't even good at brutalizing these people, terrible in fact. I venture to guess that if a single one of those brothers had really known how to fight, and wasn't some choir boy (literally what they were), we would have 4 dead cops right now. It was comical to see the cops try to portray them as having 'special tactical training' against tasers when it is clear from the video that none of them know how to fight, officers or the family members. The wal mart guy was probably the best fighter in the video, lol.

So we aren't saying the cops are bad people, just that they are terrible police officers in many different ways. If you are going to be jackboot thugs and attack families for camping at walmart then at least go to the gym once in awhile and maybe take some tai-bo classes. I mean, c'mon...

 

[feralkid]

Please don't make stupid blanket statements, you hurt your own credibility doing so.

An example off the top of my head which was relatively recent and had its own thread here:

You're welcome.

 

[kage69]

So you are going to tell us that if...*irrelevant, misdirected bullshit snipped*

Let me stop you right there genius - I've submitted no such thing. Kindly stop trying to put words in my mouth and back the hell up. I addressed exactly what I meant to address, with a post and example that illustrates my position. Take it for what you will or don't, but don't fucking tell me "what I'm telling people," who the fuck signed you on as my agent? Put that dick away and quit trying to start a pissing match you prissy grade school needledickbugfuck, I'm really not in the mood.

 

[kage69]

You're welcome.

Payment submitted.


Been a trying day, what can I say...

 

[AHamick]

I don't think anyone is trying to argue what the mob did was right or that the police didn't have the legal right to do what they did. They are trying to argue that a better approach to the situation would have resulted in a much better ending for all involved and that is including the police officers.

I agree that a different approach may have led to a better outcome but all of that is in hindsight and their approach was appropriate for most situations of similar nature. This family was the exception. Their approach failed because the family was bat shit crazy which the officers can't necessarily tell before a fight starts.

 

[shady28]

What...the..F did I just watch.

This...

 

[Bird222]

Look at all the shit these cops took off these people before they ever shot one of them.

 

[McLovin]

You go for an Officer's weapon, the expectation should be that you will be shot, so no sympathy from me there.

That family caused 2 physical altercations with Walmart employees that lead to the police being called. This does not sound like a group of people who can "diplomatically be dealt with" as I am pretty sure a Walmart employee isn't going to flat out assault someone for camping in the parking lot.

For those of you who are bringing up the fact that the white people in this scenario, with the exception of 1, weren't all shot but if this was a black family they'd all be dead. I'm sorry I can't help you other than telling you that your gross over-exaggeration doesn't accomplish anything other than raising your blood pressure.

 

[HomerJS]

Please don't make stupid blanket statements, you hurt your own credibility doing so.

An example off the top of my head which was relatively recent and had it's own thread here:

https://news.vice.com/article/body-...-with-snow-shovel-before-utah-police-shooting

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2416107&highlight=utah+shooting&page=3

You mean like the blanket statement from righties "if you black people would just behave and comply everything would be fine" But then you get this if you are black...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeT_oSLtI-o

BTW - South Carolina again!

 

[BoberFett]

LOL @ Cops using non-lethal tactics. So, you aren't going to shoot the kill this time? Let me guess why. Only one person was killed? haha. Such bullshit.

Oh look, the racist scumbag is back.

 

[Gooberlx2]

What was the initial confrontation with the Wal-mart employee in the restroom about? What does the "No Camping" sign they put up later have to do with anything? Were they living in the Wal-mart parking lot and using Wal-mart's restrooms or something?

Most likely yes. Walmart is one of the few places that generally won't hassle people for "camping". It's pretty common among some folks always on the move. Truckers, hobos, bands, etc... (my brother's band would park and sleep in Walmart parking lots when touring). You're not supposed to "shower up" in the restrooms though.

Here's an hour long press conference and narration of the video by the police chief.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki-R0d7DIAE

 

[JSt0rm]

You mean like the blanket statement from righties "if you black people would just behave and comply everything would be fine" But then you get this if you are black...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeT_oSLtI-o

BTW - South Carolina again!

This is one of my most favorite racist things. "if only black people acted white they can join us in economic prosperity"

Let me ask all the white people - If the tables were turned and you had to act "black" to have economic security would you do it? Would you act black to fit in and have a good job?

 

[BoberFett]

This is one of my most favorite racist things. "if only black people acted white they can join us in economic prosperity"

Let me ask all the white people - If the tables were turned and you had to act "black" to have economic security would you do it? Would you act black to fit in and have a good job?

Acting white? Acting black? How very racist of you and HomerJS. I didn't realized that acting civilized had to do with color.

These white people were acting uncivilized, and they got beaten down and shot for it.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Here is my cliff notes:

Bunch of idiots
Cops arrive and act like bunch of idiots themselves.

That was a big cluster fuck of stupidity.

 

[Ichinisan]

Most likely yes. Walmart is one of the few places that generally won't hassle people for "camping". It's pretty common among some folks always on the move. Truckers, hobos, bands, etc... (my brother's band would park and sleep in Walmart parking lots when touring). You're not supposed to "shower up" in the restrooms though.

Here's an hour long press conference and narration of the video by the police chief.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ki-R0d7DIAE

Yeah. Since nearly every Walmart is 24/7, the camping family could always claim to be waiting for someone who is inside, shopping. I think Walmart usually just tolerates it with no challenge. I think Walmart probably tolerated the Gaver family for a while until they started causing trouble.