Brawl at Walmart

[Vdubchaos]

Yeah. Since nearly every Walmart is 24/7, the camping family could always claim to be waiting for someone who is inside, shopping. I think Walmart usually just tolerates it with no challenge. I think Walmart probably tolerated the Gaver family for a while until they started causing trouble.

Family like this ruins it for the rest of them.

Now, expect Walmart to change that policy....cause of these idiots.

 

[Blanky]

I'm off to Walmart now. Walmart is great. Pure 'merica.

 

[Humpy]

This is one of my most favorite racist things. "if only black people acted white they can join us in economic prosperity"

Let me ask all the white people - If the tables were turned and you had to act "black" to have economic security would you do it? Would you act black to fit in and have a good job?

I act intelligent, professional, non-sexist, and tolerant in order to fit in and have a good job. So sure, I'd totally act black if I had to. I might try it just for fun.

 

[Ichinisan]

I'm off to Walmart now. Walmart is great. Pure 'merica.

I wish I lived at Walmart!

 

[Blanky]

Finally watched most of the video. Totally ridiculous, all of it.

 

[MongGrel]

yes. and one way they do that is separate people. They tried that and the family started throwing fist.

I'm one of the first to say a cop made mistakes. This is not one of them.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[MongGrel]

So you are going to tell us that if this had been a black family who had attacked a bunch of cops, that they would have waited three full minutes and until one of there coworkers was shot before even shooting ONE of them? Please.


Let me try and explain it to all you: Cops brutalize both white and black americans. Nobody is arguing that you are not going to find tons of cases of white guys being beat and shot and abused by cops, just like that white guy who got beat for stealing that horse. That said, black people are brutalized far more, and under far more dubious circumstances, than white people. White people have a certain amount of leeway when dealing with SOME cops that just isn't there for blacks. So stop freaking out about how somebody could possibly suggest that life isn't just as hard for you as it is for DaQueel in his tenament in detroit. I'm sure your life is hard too, ok? We recognize you as a white man who has had a tough life, and we sympathize.


As to the topic at hand, I also don't think anybody here is suggesting that the cops were not in their legal rights to do everything they did. They certainly were, and I don't think they should be prosecuted at all. What is concerning is the lack of professional judgement and even more concerning, physical ability on the part of the cops. They weren't even good at brutalizing these people, terrible in fact. I venture to guess that if a single one of those brothers had really known how to fight, and wasn't some choir boy (literally what they were), we would have 4 dead cops right now. It was comical to see the cops try to portray them as having 'special tactical training' against tasers when it is clear from the video that none of them know how to fight, officers or the family members. The wal mart guy was probably the best fighter in the video, lol.

So we aren't saying the cops are bad people, just that they are terrible police officers in many different ways. If you are going to be jackboot thugs and attack families for camping at walmart then at least go to the gym once in awhile and maybe take some tai-bo classes. I mean, c'mon...

Grow up a bit if you're going to be hanging out around here.

Who is "WE", you have a mouse in you're pocket ?

 

[highland145]

Grow up a bit if you're going to be hanging out around here.

Who is "WE", you have a mouse in you're pocket ?

If you are going to be jackboot thugs and attack families for camping at walmart

Willis, you don't know shit about what you are talking.

 

[Darwin333]

I agree that a different approach may have led to a better outcome but all of that is in hindsight and their approach was appropriate for most situations of similar nature. This family was the exception. Their approach failed because the family was bat shit crazy which the officers can't necessarily tell before a fight starts.

I agree completely, the only point I am trying to make is one that I can not prove actually happened in this case but does happen more often than not. Cops these days are very very type A assholes. They often charge into a scene and escalate tension instead of, at least initially, trying to deescalate the situation. Deescalation of any dangerous situation is the best way for everyone to go home healthy but too many times we see the cops as the escalators.

People are fucking stupid, if you don't believe me go to your local walmart and talk to 10 people. Then realize that half the population is dumber than the 10 people people you just talked to. Stressful situations can make people do things they normally wouldn't, that goes for both cop and civilian. For some reason LEO has forgotten about that in general and instead are quicker to escalate the situation, and force, than they are to try and deescalate.

I will honestly say that, at least per the status quo, these cops in this particular instance showed great restraint in the escalation of force regardless of what it was that set off the brawl. I would like to know though, if other cops were already at the scene and engaged with the perps what exactly was it about the other cops showing up that caused them to go batshit crazy?

I think this is a case that they should try to learn from and using hindsight try to better train their officers in deescalation and nothing more. As much as I am against the way cops use force these days, I can't say they did wrong here.

 

[DrDoug]

... They often charge into a scene and escalate tension instead of, at least initially, trying to deescalate the situation. Deescalation of any dangerous situation is the best way for everyone to go home healthy but too many times we see the cops as the escalators.

...

One of the ways I used to see cops discreetly take over a situation (I was a wild youth) was for one cop to pull one person 'off to the side to get their side if the story'. The another cop does the same, then the next and so on until the cops have control of a situation before a group of people realize it. Now cops tend to stay together (for protection!) and try to order people around to secure them before assessing the situation. They want immediate control and in this case, as in their past, they expected compliance. I say this because I bet that the local constabulary is used to people complying with them and they thought this would be just another call. The problem for them is that this was not the usual situation since this was a crazy family willing to go ape shit on cops, as they quickly found out. They became complacent in doing their jobs and they recklessly put themselves within reach of nuts who were willing to go for their guns.

Complacency and overconfidence nailed them in the ass, big time.

 

[touchstone]

Grow up a bit if you're going to be hanging out around here.

Who is "WE", you have a mouse in you're pocket ?

I am not sure I get your meaning. I'm grown.





It's a an instructive 'we'. We are learning new things.

 

[Darwin333]

Family like this ruins it for the rest of them.

Now, expect Walmart to change that policy....cause of these idiots.

Wait, so these assholes just fucked it up for the rest of the assholes that are camping in Wallyworlds parking lot?

I dunno, I guess if I was broke as shit that a Wallyworld parking lot would be a pretty good camping ground. Good lighting and somewhat decent security at night, relative to the woods at least, but during business hours....... every customer of Walmart in a days time being within less than a minutes walk of my "home".... Fuck that shit, I'll take the woods were the least crazy bastards (again, relatively) generally reside.

 

[Carson Dyle]

I think most "campers" at Walmart are RVs or travelers passing through the area, and staying a night or two. Some of them are also used by truckers as rest stops.

We have one nearby Super Walmart that is right on the interstate. On any given night, there are several dozen RVs, tractor-trailers, cars and trucks parked out front. It's like a small city, but they're a good 100 yards or more from the store itself. You can tell that they built the parking lot to accommodate them, as the furthest point in the lot is probably close to 500 feet from the store.

 

[Dari]

Wow I woud've expected more people getting shot when they go for the cops gun

They weren't black.

 

[Darwin333]

One of the ways I used to see cops discreetly take over a situation (I was a wild youth) was for one cop to pull one person 'off to the side to get their side if the story'. The another cop does the same, then the next and so on until the cops have control of a situation before a group of people realize it.

This is exactly the type of thing I talk about when I say they should attempt to deescalate situations instead of walking up to a situation and acting like the big bad wolf right off the bat.

Complacency and overconfidence nailed them in the ass, big time.

I don't think its necessarily complacency, it's a complete shift in the way they police. We used to have peace officers whose job was simply to do as their name said, keep the peace. Today we have military like organizations that can damn near do anything they please with impunity

 

[waggy]

I think most "campers" at Walmart are RVs or travelers passing through the area, and staying a night or two. Some of them are also used by truckers as rest stops.

We have one nearby Super Walmart that is right on the interstate. On any given night, there are several dozen RVs, tractor-trailers, cars and trucks parked out front. It's like a small city, but they're a good 100 yards or more from the store itself. You can tell that they built the parking lot to accommodate them, as the furthest point in the lot is probably close to 500 feet from the store.

yeap. Also Walmart allows semi-truck drivers to sleep in the parking lot.

 

[kage69]

You mean like the blanket statement from righties "if you black people would just behave and comply everything would be fine" But then you get this if you are black...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeT_oSLtI-o

BTW - South Carolina again!

I guess you'd have to ask the 'righties' you heard that from. But yes, I would consider that another example of an emotionally charged absolutist view that relies on personal bias and a selective view of history. In other words, bullshit.

To be fair though, I'm sure some might qualify keeping your hands in view as "behaving" around cops, although that in of itself is of course no reason to open fire. I myself consider non-compliance and attacking LEOs to be bad behavior in police encounters. Proper behavior for police should entail utilizing deadly force only when dealing with an imminent threat or unique emergency situation. It's clear that clip involved neither.

 

[BUTCH1]

So you are going to tell us that if this had been a black family who had attacked a bunch of cops, that they would have waited three full minutes and until one of there coworkers was shot before even shooting ONE of them? Please.


Let me try and explain it to all you: Cops brutalize both white and black americans. Nobody is arguing that you are not going to find tons of cases of white guys being beat and shot and abused by cops, just like that white guy who got beat for stealing that horse. That said, black people are brutalized far more, and under far more dubious circumstances, than white people. White people have a certain amount of leeway when dealing with SOME cops that just isn't there for blacks. So stop freaking out about how somebody could possibly suggest that life isn't just as hard for you as it is for DaQueel in his tenament in detroit. I'm sure your life is hard too, ok? We recognize you as a white man who has had a tough life, and we sympathize.


As to the topic at hand, I also don't think anybody here is suggesting that the cops were not in their legal rights to do everything they did. They certainly were, and I don't think they should be prosecuted at all. What is concerning is the lack of professional judgement and even more concerning, physical ability on the part of the cops. They weren't even good at brutalizing these people, terrible in fact. I venture to guess that if a single one of those brothers had really known how to fight, and wasn't some choir boy (literally what they were), we would have 4 dead cops right now. It was comical to see the cops try to portray them as having 'special tactical training' against tasers when it is clear from the video that none of them know how to fight, officers or the family members. The wal mart guy was probably the best fighter in the video, lol.

So we aren't saying the cops are bad people, just that they are terrible police officers in many different ways. If you are going to be jackboot thugs and attack families for camping at walmart then at least go to the gym once in awhile and maybe take some tai-bo classes. I mean, c'mon...

First off they went in there and were trying to separate the family members BEFORE any fights erupted, had the family members simply complied there would have been NO issues resolving it, everyone would have had time to calm down. This group decided instead to attack the cops right off the bat, I would hardly call those cops "jack-booted thugs" and the family members were tased, beaten, punched, kicked but still refused to get on the ground and stop, I would have been fine if ALL of them got shot TBH.

 

[JSt0rm]

the cops charged in grabbing people. Im not excuse the behavior of the clan but they were already agitated. Cops need to understand people who are agitated and under duress arent in the position to make the best choices. How someone who has been trained to deal with people like that actual deal with people like that is a real problem.

 

[Ichinisan]

This is exactly the type of thing I talk about when I say they should attempt to deescalate situations instead of walking up to a situation and acting like the big bad wolf right off the bat.



I don't think its necessarily complacency, it's a complete shift in the way they police. We used to have peace officers whose job was simply to do as their name said, keep the peace. Today we have military like organizations that can damn near do anything they please with impunity

They have to use force to keep the peace. You seem to think their use of force is the opposite of peace.

They attempted to use force to separate the family members so they could be talked to. It didn't work. The "lack of peace" was caused by the Gavers' resistance.

 

[AntonioHG]

Cops should have left them to beat each other up...

 

[Darwin333]

They have to use force to keep the peace.

No they most certainly do not and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

You seem to think their use of force is the opposite of peace.

Umm, yes I do think that using force is the opposite of peace. It's pretty much the textbook opposite of peace...

Please see the post I quoted as an example of peace officers doing a good job of protecting not only the public but themselves.

I bet the shot and injured cops wish they would have employed a bit more conflict resolution and bit less "do what the fuck I say right the fuck now" in an already extremely heated situation. What you advocate is akin to teaching hostage negotiators to start the conversation with "Let the fucking hostages go now or we're sending in the swat team to kill you right now". You want to know why they don't start the conversation that way, it's because it doesn't work out very well for anyone involved.

The difference between a cop walking up to a guy and talking to him in a calm and low tone versus walking up to him and grabbing him in a hostile way makes a world of difference in the reaction. Not requiring force protects not only the "bad guy" or the innocent bystanders that can be hit by stray bullets but also the cops themselves.

 

[JSt0rm]

Hes got that Orwellian peace through war shit in his head.

 

[Ichinisan]

Cops should have left them to beat each other up...

That's definitely not "keeping the peace."

 

[highland145]

That's definitely not "keeping the peace."

What if they turned around?