Brawl at Walmart

[AHamick]

The family absolutely needed to be detained and questioned/arrested.

It is disingenuous to say that what ended up happening is due purely to the family resisting. Part of the job of professional policing is to anticipate that people will not always comply and to have an alternative course of action that results in the intended outcome without officers losing control of, and getting shot with, their own weapons or getting kicked in the head by a coworker.

And the girl being raped shouldn't have dressed like a slut?

The cops were not at fault for the criminal actions of the family. We can sit here and make judgements of their actions in hindsight and say their tactics were poor or they could have done x y and/or z to have more control.

The truth is when the poop his the fan any plan can and frequently does go right out the window. Training only goes so far in helping someone maintain that plan when your adrenaline is flowing, tunnel vision has set in and you are being attacked in unconventional ways, especially if you are fighting for your life.

Could it have been done differently to prevent injury or loss of life? A truthful answer is "maybe" no one knows how these people will react to different scenarios or situations. What we do know is they attacks cops, tried to disarm them and one of them died as a result. That was the choice of the family. Lay the blame where it belongs.

 

[Humpy]

In this case, it seems that the officers had much better training than in other cases. For idiots who say, "they should have waited for backup" - THESE TWO CARS WERE THE BACKUP. There were already officers on the scene. One can clearly be scene in front of the car as it pulls up. For those who think what the officer's said was confrontational and escalating, what were they supposed to say? "Let's all sit down and sing some songs"? But, they attempted to use tasers - the tasers were ineffective. They attempted to use their batons - also ineffective. After seeing how ineffective the tasers and batons were, I guess it makes a fairly compelling case why an officer might choose to use a gun first.

The article states that four more officers arrived after the officer was shot with his own gun so I'm not sure why you are yelling about the two cars being the backup. There was time to take a more reasoned approach.

The idea that this was a family of superhumans immune to fists, tasers, pepper spray, and batons and who could only be defeated by bullets is ludicrous. It's sad that anyone would buy such a weak explanation for why the events got so out of hand.

 

[brycejones]

The article states that four more officers arrived after the officer was shot with his own gun so I'm not sure why you are yelling about the two cars being the backup. There was time to take a more reasoned approach.

The idea that this was a family of superhumans immune to fists, tasers, pepper spray, and batons and who could only be defeated by bullets is ludicrous. It's sad that anyone would buy such a weak explanation for why the events got so out of hand.

I'm curious have you actually watched the first 45 seconds of the dash cam footage?

 

[michal1980]

You make a moronic comment, you get called a moron. It isn't an attack it is a statement of fact.

But let me expound for a minute on why you are a moron.

1. The situation was anything but calm before the officers got there. As you can see and hear (you aren't blind and deaf are you?) one of the original officers on the scene says the family needs to be separated (a standard technique in an investigation) and someone in the crowd points back and says they won't be separated. This is certainly not a "calm" situation.
2. Since the family is non-compliant the cops move to the next step which is to put them in handcuffs at this point all hell breaks loose with the family throwing punches.

So you're a moron because as usual you refuse to look at the evidence and base your "analysis" on your blind outrage instead of the facts of the situation.

I looked at the evidence. It's very clear that the back up cops set everyone off.

There was no fighting on camera when they were setting arriving.


Your original response still makes you nothing but an asshole. And you seem obsessed with me.

 

[Humpy]

I'm curious have you actually watched the first 45 seconds of the dash cam footage?

I watched the video and read the article.

What I saw was a group of unruly retards, not a family of superhumans.

I am somewhat astonished by how the police handled this and even more astonished that people accept that it was handled OK.

 

[DrPizza]

I watched the video and read the article.

What I saw was a group of unruly retards, not a family of superhumans.

I am somewhat astonished by how the police handled this and even more astonished that people accept that it was handled OK.

It's Saturday night. I can't tell if you're drunk, trolling, mentally challenged, or blind. You can see multiple tasers being used to no effect. You can see batons being used multiple times... to little or no effect.

 

[brycejones]

I looked at the evidence. It's very clear that the back up cops set everyone off.

There was no fighting on camera when they were setting arriving.


Your original response still makes you nothing but an asshole. And you seem obsessed with me.

Really? You look at that situation and it says calm to you? Family starts throwing punches and you blame the cops?

Don't post stupid shit and you won't be called a moron. I see at least 3 other posters have pointed out how dumb your "analysis" of the situation was.

 

[brycejones]

I watched the video and read the article.

What I saw was a group of unruly retards, not a family of superhumans.

I am somewhat astonished by how the police handled this and even more astonished that people accept that it was handled OK.

Unruly retards who were being investigated for having assaulted someone in the store and who refused to comply with instructions from the cops. As someone else pointed out are you expecting them to get a cookie and a pat on the head? The brawl is quiet astonishing but the family kicked it off and unfortunately they have and will pay a very substantial price for that collective lack of judgement.

 

[Humpy]

It's Saturday night. I can't tell if you're drunk, trolling, mentally challenged, or blind. You can see multiple tasers being used to no effect. You can see batons being used multiple times... to little or no effect.

Back to the topic, I would surmise that, rather than some unnatural super powers of the Gaver family, the police methods had such little effect due to the incompetent, chaotic nature in which they were deployed.

 

[Humpy]

Unruly retards who were being investigated for having assaulted someone in the store and who refused to comply with instructions from the cops. As someone else pointed out are you expecting them to get a cookie and a pat on the head? The brawl is quiet astonishing but the family kicked it off and unfortunately they have and will pay a very substantial price for that collective lack of judgement.

It really appeared to me that the second group of cops jumped into something that they didn't have a good understanding of.

All I expected was for their vehicle to be blocked in, observe and try to get a good understanding of the situation, if time allows gather up a good ratio of good guys to bad guys, provide for cooler heads to prevail, and in the end if the suspects can't be talked down simply overwhelm them with manpower, not firepower.

I don't think that is unrealistic. I know it's not very heroic or adrenalin boosting but if there isn't something imminent it seems prudent to take it a little slower.

 

[michal1980]

Really? You look at that situation and it says calm to you? Family starts throwing punches and you blame the cops?

Don't post stupid shit and you won't be called a moron. I see at least 3 other posters have pointed out how dumb your "analysis" of the situation was.

When you get stuck on stupid you just don't stop.

I said the extra cops coming and trying to separate everyone was the spark that set everything off.

The situation before was tense, but there weren't fists flying. Of course it wasn't the cops fault the family reacted the way they did. But there wasn't a brawl happening before the extra cops were attempting to separate them.


I blame the cops for making a bad situation worse. Their training failed. When I started watching the video without knowing the story I knew what was going to happen when those cops went into the crowd and would want to separate people. That the cops didn't is sad.



I also like how once again your hard on for me caused you to call me a moron for stating the obvious. While you ignored the people that said the cops should have gunned everyone down.

You must agree with that logic if you skip over those comments but continue to attack me.

 

[brycejones]

When you get stuck on stupid you just don't stop.

I said the extra cops coming and trying to separate everyone was the spark that set everything off.

The situation before was tense, but there weren't fists flying. Of course it wasn't the cops fault the family reacted the way they did. But there wasn't a brawl happening before the extra cops were attempting to separate them.


I blame the cops for making a bad situation worse. Their training failed. When I started watching the video without knowing the story I knew what was going to happen when those cops went into the crowd and would want to separate people. That the cops didn't is sad.



I also like how once again your hard on for me caused you to call me a moron for stating the obvious. While you ignored the people that said the cops should have gunned everyone down.

You must agree with that logic if you skip over those comments but continue to attack me.

I don't think anyone said they SHOULD have gunned down everyone. But keep playing the victim.

 

[michal1980]

I don't think anyone said they SHOULD have gunned down everyone. But keep playing the victim.

How am I playing the victim. I'm just stating facts. Your have some sort of sick stalker thing going on where you'd rather attack me for who knows what, and ignore people that call for mass murder.

 

[CZroe]

The article seems to intentionally gloss over certain things.

What was the initial confrontation with the Wal-mart employee in the restroom about? What does the "No Camping" sign they put up later have to do with anything? Were they living in the Wal-mart parking lot and using Wal-mart's restrooms or something?

 

[NoStateofMind]

It seems as though every interaction with police that involves a physical altercation results in a 'civilian' death.

 

[allisolm]

What does the "No Camping" sign they put up later have to do with anything? Were they living in the Wal-mart parking lot and using Wal-mart's restrooms or something?

Apparently so. http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1190&articleID=65055

"A family of nine, packed into a Chevrolet Suburban, was camping at the Cottonwood Walmart parking lot in the days before a deadly brawl with Cottonwood Police Saturday night."

It also says "The Idaho Statesman also reported that the Gaver family became homeowners in 2004 thanks to a PMI Foundation partnership with Boise's Habitat for Humanity." Wonder what happened with that?

 

[waggy]

The cops showed a LOT of restraint.

the family started the fight. the cops used batons, spray and tazers. Those did not work

It wasn't until one of the idiotic family members tried to take a gun from a officer and shot him in the leg was deadly force used.

within a minute of that all members of the Gaver family were in custody.


The cops did good.

 

[CZroe]

Apparently so. http://verdenews.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&subsectionID=1190&articleID=65055

"A family of nine, packed into a Chevrolet Suburban, was camping at the Cottonwood Walmart parking lot in the days before a deadly brawl with Cottonwood Police Saturday night."

It also says "The Idaho Statesman also reported that the Gaver family became homeowners in 2004 thanks to a PMI Foundation partnership with Boise's Habitat for Humanity." Wonder what happened with that?

Thanks. "Matthew 24 Now!" Sounds like a play on "Apocalypse Now!" Sure enough, Matthew 24 is about the end times. Sounds like a kooky gypsy prepper family which is why they were trained to fight with police. How did they possibly fit 9 people and their instruments and other personal items in that vehicle?!

Now I'm really curious to know what their music was about.

 

[JSt0rm]

The cops showed a LOT of restraint.

the family started the fight. the cops used batons, spray and tazers. Those did not work

It wasn't until one of the idiotic family members tried to take a gun from a officer and shot him in the leg was deadly force used.

within a minute of that all members of the Gaver family were in custody.


The cops did good.

Once this shit hit the fan sure but the cops did not do "good". A good cop can descelate the situation.

 

[CZroe]

Once this shit hit the fan sure but the cops did not do "good". A good cop can descelate the situation.

...by doing the exact things they tried to do (separating and questioning individually). Just because it didn't work on this nutter family that was trained to respond this way to police doesn't make them "bad cops." They did good. They did everything right.

Oh. I get it. You are saying that good cops have some supernatural ability to do this by snapping their fingers or wiggling their nose or something and they will never encounter a situation where their technique is less effective.

 

[waggy]

Once this shit hit the fan sure but the cops did not do "good". A good cop can descelate the situation.

yes. and one way they do that is separate people. They tried that and the family started throwing fist.

I'm one of the first to say a cop made mistakes. This is not one of them.

 

[Ichinisan]

It seems as though every interaction with police that involves a physical altercation results in a 'civilian' death.

What a colossally stupid statement. Too many reasons to address them all.

Question: Would you be happy if cops died in 50% of confrontations with civilians?

 

[Ichinisan]

Once this shit hit the fan sure but the cops did not do "good". A good cop can descelate the situation.

So you're saying that, somehow, good cops can prevent a group of dumbasses from escalating the situation 100% of the time, regardless of the dumbasses' attempts to escalate?

The police didn't escalate. The Gaver gang did.

 

[SheHateMe]

It's amazing how if you're white, you can continually assault a police officer without getting shot, but if you're black, you get murdered by just running away from them. And yes, i realize someone died here, but that was after they stole a cop's gun and shot him, and lets be honest, if they were all black, they would have all been shot dead the second a punch was thrown.

Basically.


But, P&N said racism and prejudice is over and we are just upset about this because we are stupid libruhls.

 

[NoStateofMind]

What a colossally stupid statement. Too many reasons to address them all.

Question: Would you be happy if cops died in 50% of confrontations with civilians?

Why should I answer someone who has claimed my statement to be 'colossally stupid' but didn't have the courtesy to tell me why? You don't get to make an assumption about someone's statement and move on to whatever agenda you want to push. That might work with a boat load of dolts on this forum but not me. So explain your position or kindly move along.