Bioware dev talks about misogyny, racism and homophobia in games

[Rakehellion]

I can tell you've never been in the Military, and I can also tell you don't know jack sh!t about the Military, or Military history..

99% of people who play games aren't in the military and don't give a rat's ass about military history. "Historical accuracy" hasn't kept people from putting mechs, rail guns, and BFG 9000s in video games.

 

[Rakehellion]

Commanders of battleships are always Men, so it stands to reason that the captain in the future would also be portrayed as a Man.

Games are fiction. They don't rely on American history. And if you're playing a character, you probably want it to represent you.

Explain to me how a fictional narrative is bound by your local history or even the laws of physics.

 

[Stringjam]

There are plenty of minority groups in real life, but not in fiction for some reason.

What is that reason? Why is it important for non-minority groups to field a forced perspective of those groups in their creative process?

Nobody is forcing this issue in South America, Africa, Asia, India, etc....

What you really mean is that there is not enough minority groups included in fiction written by English-speaking Caucasians, because the world is full of these works otherwise (you might have to buy a translated version or learn a different language to read /watch them, though).

Despite the misguided criticism, U.S. entertainment is the most diverse in the entire world - - just watch some foreign films and this fact becomes glaringly obvious. Other cultures are not nearly as obsessed with this "everything must be representative" philosophy. They write / create about what they know...the culture and the people they know, and they aren't burdened with the posturing and pretentious BS that gets lapped on by people like the author of that article.

 

[thedosbox]

People are taking a run at him not because of what they're trying to build, but because apparently according to him, we're all supposed to be super accepting of that.

If he simply kept his mouth shut and made a game, and that game lived or died on its own merits, then no one would care. He's still free to make any game he likes, people voicing their opinion on his stupidity doesn't stop him from doing that.

So free speech is OK, so long as he says something you agree with. Got it.

It's still a free market and that's the point, if he was confident that their new approach is so right then they'd just shut up and make their games that way, not preface it with social conditioning where we're all politely told that shouldn't like what we currently like and instead alter our preferences to like the new more politically correct content they're making.

I can tell who in this thread has actually read the link in the OP as he addresses many of the points being raised. But hey, why bother when they can get an uninformed rant in.

Most importantly, he's addressing people in the industry, not customers. Customers can choose whether to buy games that are more diverse, or not. Funny how that works.

Lastly, the header image on the PCgamer article about this is amusing/sad:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2014/03/24/w...es-was-the-most-important-moment-of-gdc-2014/

 

[BladeVenom]

What about scatophobia? Where's the tolerance for what 2 girls do with 1 cup.

 

[Blue_Max]

 

[cmdrdredd]

Games are fiction. They don't rely on American history. And if you're playing a character, you probably want it to represent you.

Explain to me how a fictional narrative is bound by your local history or even the laws of physics.

Every work of fiction has an element that relates to the audience. Didn't you ever study literature?

 

[PrincessFrosty]

So free speech is OK, so long as he says something you agree with. Got it.

Where did I say that?

I'm explaining why people have a negative opinion of the guy, he's free to say or do whatever he wants, but so are we to give backlash on his comments and actions.

Most importantly, he's addressing people in the industry, not customers. Customers can choose whether to buy games that are more diverse, or not. Funny how that works.

Who he's addressing doesn't matter, the validity of his claims and the theory behind them don't rely on that.

 

[Arsinek]

kill whitey!

 

[SMOGZINN]

kill whitey!

The Revolution will not be Twitchcast?

 

[Red Storm]

He says it's "very cynical" to assume the audience isn't capable of embracing a gay hero or heroine, or "more exclusive women protagonists in games that aren't glorified sex objects and actually have personalities beyond supporting the men in the game"

When Bioware actually practices what they preach I'll bother listening to them:

 

[darkewaffle]

When Bioware actually practices what they preach I'll bother listening to them:

But if you get rid of them then you won't be adequately representing the "sexualized woman" segment.

That's kind of cherrypicking as well. Miranda and whatever that other chick's name is (it escapes me) are portrayed as overly sexified and strong. But they all certainly aren't. Morrigan, Jack, Leliana, Wynne are all major characters representing a myriad of strengths, weaknesses, backgrounds, personalities and appearances.

The only thing you don't see in games imo are fat people

 

[Red Hawk]

When Bioware actually practices what they preach I'll bother listening to them:

I think the point there is for them to not be just glorified sex objects. Isabella and Miranda do have their own personalities.

 

[smackababy]

I think the point there is for them to not be just glorified sex objects. Isabella and Miranda do have their own personalities.

And Jack's clothes clearly display that she is a strong independent woman who doesn't need a man! Miranda as well. Every female humanoid in ME has a low cut top or form fitting clothes with large breasts. Perhaps, if they wanted them to be more than sex objects, they shouldn't make them be. The male characters are far more diverse. Joker doesn't even have working legs!

 

[Red Storm]

And Jack's clothes clearly display that she is a strong independent woman who doesn't need a man! Miranda as well. Every female humanoid in ME has a low cut top or form fitting clothes with large breasts. Perhaps, if they wanted them to be more than sex objects, they shouldn't make them be. The male characters are far more diverse. Joker doesn't even have working legs!

This. Even Morrigan from NWN was somehow wearing full plate mail that had her entire chest exposed. Bioware are the biggest hypocrites because they talk up a storm but do exactly what they speak out against. Isabella was nothing but a walking sex object, Her attire (and figure) was made to look provocative and nothing else. Miranda from Mass Effect was also running around in combat with low cut, ass hugging clothes and for some reason always had her ass up in the camera when speaking to her. This stuff isn't unintentional, it's just Bioware doing the very thing they apparently speak out against.

 

[darkewaffle]

Jack's clothes and ink are indicative of psychosis as much as anything else. And aside from those wearing armor pretty much everyone (regardless of species) wears very form fitting, tight clothing throughout the series - it's just a futuristic aesthetic.

 

[Red Storm]

Jack's clothes and ink are indicative of psychosis as much as anything else. And aside from those wearing armor pretty much everyone (regardless of species) wears very form fitting, tight clothing throughout the series - it's just a futuristic aesthetic.

Nah, it's just sex sells. It's business sense, nothing more.

 

[darkewaffle]

Nah, it's just sex sells. It's business sense, nothing more.

Well, yes but at the same time clothing/uniforms like that are a common theme across a lot of futuristic fiction and is usually applied equally to both genders. I think it probably stems from the idea that "in the future everyone might need to wear a spacesuit so they better wear spandex at all times just in case they want to hop into one!".

If only the women were dressed that way, sure it may be questionable. But basically everyone is wearing spandex unless they're armored up. I mean the men are all Terrell Owens level of ripped, it's not like their abs, arms and ass also aren't on full display as well.

Unrealistic? Sure. Unfair? I wouldn't say so.

 

[smackababy]

Well, yes but at the same time clothing/uniforms like that are a common theme across a lot of futuristic fiction and is usually applied equally to both genders. I think it probably stems from the idea that "in the future everyone might need to wear a spacesuit so they better wear spandex at all times just in case they want to hop into one!".

If only the women were dressed that way, sure it may be questionable. But basically everyone is wearing spandex unless they're armored up. I mean the men are all Terrell Owens level of ripped, it's not like their abs, arms and ass also aren't on full display as well.

Unrealistic? Sure. Unfair? I wouldn't say so.

So, as long as they are equally treating everyone as a sex object? And it isn't really true. There are plenty of males in the ME universe that aren't sexed up. Joker? Garrus? Wrex? The only female I can even think of that isn't in a form fitting suit, with large breasts is the female version of Wrex. Even the girl who needs a special breather has a nice body in spandex.

 

[Rakehellion]

What is that reason? Why is it important for non-minority groups to field a forced perspective of those groups in their creative process?

You have it backwards. What game developers are doing is ethnic cleansing. They make it white as possible on purpose.

Nobody is forcing this issue in South America, Africa, Asia, India, etc....

No one's forcing anything.

 

[Rakehellion]

Every work of fiction has an element that relates to the audience. Didn't you ever study literature?

And so we alienate the majority audience who aren't white males.

But I guess you're intentionally missing my point.

 

[Rakehellion]

Miranda from Mass Effect was also running around in combat with low cut, ass hugging clothes and for some reason always had her ass up in the camera when speaking to her. This stuff isn't unintentional, it's just Bioware doing the very thing they apparently speak out against.

I guess you were too busy jerking it to Miranda to notice Jacob's bulge. All characters in the game wear skintight suits.

 

[Red Storm]

I guess you were too busy jerking it to Miranda to notice Jacob's bulge. All characters in the game wear skintight suits.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that they were doing it equally? Armor is one thing, look at the clothes, look at how all the women have the exact same "teen fantasy build", look at how they position the view so Miranda's ass takes up half the screen while you sit and think about what reply to pick. I don't know why you're trying to defend Bioware. It's not just Mass Effect, it's in Dragon Age as well. It was in Neverwinter Nights too.

Sex sells, and these companies happen to be in this business to make money. Not to satisfy the political desire of every group on Earth. This is such a non-issue, the only reason why I felt like commenting was because Bioware are being hypocrites.

 

[darkewaffle]

So, as long as they are equally treating everyone as a sex object? And it isn't really true. There are plenty of males in the ME universe that aren't sexed up. Joker? Garrus? Wrex? The only female I can even think of that isn't in a form fitting suit, with large breasts is the female version of Wrex. Even the girl who needs a special breather has a nice body in spandex.

I guess if one of your definitions of a sex object is merely wearing tight clothes, sure. By that logic though, is every character in Apocalypto a sex object because almost all of them are wearing nothing more than loincloths basically? The point I was making is that the women are no more scantily clad than the men and that at some point it's just part of the aesthetic or the period.

There's plenty of ME woman who are presented without their sexuality figuring as a large part of who they are. For some of them it does become evident as you become better friends (or romance them of course) but it's not a significant part of their presentation - Liara, Ashley (though she does get a makeover), Tali, Chambers, Traynor, Kasumi, Samara. Yes, they do have breasts and yes many (all?) of them wear tight clothing. I guess if that is your sole criteria, then there's not much you can do about that though. I think the devil is in the details.

How do you define a sexed up male? They almost all have the tight clothing and bodybuilder bodies. That seems pretty analogous to "form fitting suit with large breasts". Even Joker is pretty jacked.

Ultimately I think sex appeal is comes down to much more than body and dress, even in a game. Sure, Miranda is sexed up. But so are some girls (and probably guys) in my office, they put in the effort because they want to look or feel a certain way. Those girls are Miranda, and Miranda is those girls. It's just realistic and human to have some dose of it. Even then though she's strong, smart, very family oriented and selfless. It's not like she's just there for decoration; she's a complete character and sex appeal is but one facet that feeds into that.

 

[cmdrdredd]

And so we alienate the majority audience who aren't white males.

But I guess you're intentionally missing my point.

I said that there is something that makes the story relatable and you say we alienate the audience? No...we simply present something that they are familiar with when creating a story. If they don't relate to it at all, then they won't care and you'll have lost your audience. It doesn't have to be a person or idea. It can simply be a feeling. The fact that every Navy in the history of the world was commanded by Men is something that is well known by everyone. It's easy to accept and move on. Nobody will question it. Making the captain of a future space armada a man is not by any stretch an attempt at sexism. Some people just want to find controversy and perceive it that way.