Biden moves to mandate vaccines for large part of workforce

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Sunburn74

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Oct 5, 2009
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"The Occupational Safety and Health Administration has suspended implementation and enforcement of the Biden administration’s vaccine mandate for private employers after a federal court blocked the measure. "
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Well yes they were ordered to by the court. Also the mandate was supposed to kick in in January 2022 which made the ruling a bit moot. Its now being appealed to the 6th circuit and probably will make its way to the SCOTUS regardless of the outcome. The issue is more that companies are confused because very likely it'll be upheld at some point and they are caught in limbo. Most likely private companies will still mandate vaccinations just to be safe.
People seem to forget, the mandate allows for opting out in favor of testing. You're not forced to get a shot if you get weekly tests, but no longer can you freely just assume you don't have covid when you're unvaccinated and going to work.
 
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weblooker2021

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Jan 18, 2021
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Well yes they were ordered to by the court. Also the mandate was supposed to kick in in January 2022 which made the ruling a bit moot. Its now being appealed to the 6th circuit and probably will make its way to the SCOTUS regardless of the outcome. The issue is more that companies are confused because very likely it'll be upheld at some point and they are caught in limbo. Most likely private companies will still mandate vaccinations just to be safe.
People seem to forget, the mandate allows for opting out in favor of testing. You're not forced to get a shot if you get weekly tests, but no longer can you freely just assume you don't have covid when you're unvaccinated and going to work.
If there is any mandate that SCOTUS will block as result of Covid, this is the one. Considering that SCOTUS is conservative, i will be very shocked if they let this one go.
 

NWRMidnight

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Jun 18, 2001
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If there is any mandate that SCOTUS will block as result of Covid, this is the one. Considering that SCOTUS is conservative, i will be very shocked if they let this one go.
Please explain what being a conservative has to do with ruling based on law and the constitution, as there is only so far that a "conservative" interpretation can go before it becomes bias and not based on law and the constitution. specially since the current SCOTUS has so far not ruled against any vaccine mandate that they have been asked to rule on. Basically, all you are doing is throwing out shit based on feelz, hoping they rule in a way that prevents you from looking like a fool ... even though you looking like a fool, has come and gone a long time ago.
 
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DarthKyrie

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Please explain what being a conservative has to do with ruling based on law and the constitution, as there is only so far that a "conservative" interpretation can go before it becomes bias and not based on law and the constitution. specially since the current SCOTUS has so far not ruled against any vaccine mandate that they have been asked to rule on. Basically, all you are doing is throwing out shit based on feelz, hoping they rule in a way that prevents you from looking like a fool ... even though you looking like a fool, has come and gone a long time ago.

I know Barrett and Sotomayor have already said no to appeals. Have any of the other SCOTUS judges ruled yet on their circuits?
 

VW MAN

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Jun 27, 2020
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weblooker2021

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Jan 18, 2021
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Please explain what being a conservative has to do with ruling based on law and the constitution, as there is only so far that a "conservative" interpretation can go before it becomes bias and not based on law and the constitution. specially since the current SCOTUS has so far not ruled against any vaccine mandate that they have been asked to rule on. Basically, all you are doing is throwing out shit based on feelz, hoping they rule in a way that prevents you from looking like a fool ... even though you looking like a fool, has come and gone a long time ago.
It have to do with the fact that this mandate gone above what congress intended when they created OSHA regulations. There is no dispute that i am aware of that congress can pass new law that would mandate every single citizen get vaccinated and/or give that authority to OSHA. As it stands right now, base on 5th circuit ruling, OSHA do not have that authority.

LMAO at the consivitard source...but hey rot your brain however you like, it is working based on your posting history.

Keep your little boner in your pants there highspeed - 6th Circuit will decide if 5th Circuit ruling stands or not
6th circuit is pretty conservative court as well, i will be very surprise if they rule differently.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
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People seem to forget, the mandate allows for opting out in favor of testing. You're not forced to get a shot if you get weekly tests, but no longer can you freely just assume you don't have covid when you're unvaccinated and going to work.

Yes the regulation is structured as a testing mandate with a vaccination escape hatch, which is why the consensus is that it ultimately survives SCOTUS.
 
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NWRMidnight

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It have to do with the fact that this mandate gone above what congress intended when they created OSHA regulations. There is no dispute that i am aware of that congress can pass new law that would mandate every single citizen get vaccinated and/or give that authority to OSHA. As it stands right now, base on 5th circuit ruling, OSHA do not have that authority.


6th circuit is pretty conservative court as well, i will be very surprise if they rule differently.
Please show us where it says every citizen has to get vaccinated, hell, tell us where it says all workers has to get vaccinated. Not even the OSHA regulation does that. Also, we haven't had a real ruling based on OSHA's authority.. as usual, you are pulling lies and bullshit out of your ass. The 5th Circuit is a joke, and always has been Guess what, IF their ruling stands, you can watch other OSHA Safety regulations get shut down, as this is about work place safety. Pretty soon, we will be working in sweat shops with no safety guidelines as it was decades ago. Also, how is it that the 5th circuit can determine what Congress intended.. wouldn't that be Congress's determination to explain what their intentions where? It's like the 5th circuit telling you what your intentions are when doing something. Also, a stay is not a final ruling.. Aka the regulation hasn't been official struck down as illegal.


Also, you still haven't explained how they are going to make the ruling stand. Again, you can only go so far on ruling using conservatives values before it becomes bias an not based on law or the constitution. So far, that is what their ruling is based on.. not law, not the constitution, but bias in their "beliefs".

Again, as your whole argument is "forcing" everyone to get a vaccine.. please. .show us where it states everyone has to get a vaccine.. we will wait... till hell freezes over for you to present such statement, as it doesn't exist..
 

zinfamous

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Jul 12, 2006
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If there is any mandate that SCOTUS will block as result of Covid, this is the one. Considering that SCOTUS is conservative, i will be very shocked if they let this one go.

well, at least we agree that conservatives don't give a dick about the constitution or public health, safety, rationality, and science.

and SCOTUS too, of all things.
 

weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
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Please show us where it says every citizen has to get vaccinated, hell, tell us where it says all workers has to get vaccinated. Not even the OSHA regulation does that. Also, we haven't had a real ruling based on OSHA's authority.. as usual, you are pulling lies and bullshit out of your ass. The 5th Circuit is a joke, and always has been Guess what, IF their ruling stands, you can watch other OSHA Safety regulations get shut down, as this is about work place safety. Pretty soon, we will be working in sweat shops with no safety guidelines as it was decades ago. Also, how is it that the 5th circuit can determine what Congress intended.. wouldn't that be Congress's determination to explain what their intentions where? It's like the 5th circuit telling you what your intentions are when doing something. Also, a stay is not a final ruling.. Aka the regulation hasn't been official struck down as illegal.


Also, you still haven't explained how they are going to make the ruling stand. Again, you can only go so far on ruling using conservatives values before it becomes bias an not based on law or the constitution. So far, that is what their ruling is based on.. not law, not the constitution, but bias in their "beliefs".

Again, as your whole argument is "forcing" everyone to get a vaccine.. please. .show us where it states everyone has to get a vaccine.. we will wait... till hell freezes over for you to present such statement, as it doesn't exist..
It requires everyone that is not vaccinated to get tested unless they get vaccinated. That is basically back door mandate to get vaccinated. Regardless of what you think of 5th circuit, the fact is , it's federal court and their ruling is enforceable. Only 1 emergency regulation from OSHA actually survived legal challenge, that should tell what court think of OSHA emergency regulations.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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It requires everyone that is not vaccinated to get tested unless they get vaccinated. That is basically back door mandate to get vaccinated. Regardless of what you think of 5th circuit, the fact is , it's federal court and their ruling is enforceable. Only 1 emergency regulation from OSHA actually survived legal challenge, that should tell what court think of OSHA emergency regulations.
What's the actual issue with being vaccinated? We know it's not safety, as that horse dewormer is certainly more dangerous. And the virus is more dangerous still. And it can't be freedom, because the anti-vax crowd chants "comply or die" when their side controls the govt. Could it be that you're just triggered about Brandon? Get over it.
 

weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
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What's the actual issue with being vaccinated? We know it's not safety, as that horse dewormer is certainly more dangerous. And the virus is more dangerous still. And it can't be freedom, because the anti-vax crowd chants "comply or die" when their side controls the govt. Could it be that you're just triggered about Brandon? Get over it.
It's federal mandate vs state and that is really the issue. If state to issue a mandate tomorrow, i would tell everyone that got a problem with it to get vaccinated or move to another state, simple as that. SCOTUS ruled in 1905 that state can issue such mandate so that point is not in dispute.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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It's federal mandate vs state and that is really the issue. If state to issue a mandate tomorrow, i would tell everyone that got a problem with it to get vaccinated or move to another state, simple as that. SCOTUS ruled in 1905 that state can issue such mandate so that point is not in dispute.

I strongly doubt your sincerity to federalism. Just quit being a baby.
 
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weblooker2021

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Jan 18, 2021
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I strongly doubt your sincerity to federalism. Just quit being a baby.
It makes no difference my sincerity to federalism, it's a fact that state can issue a mandate. That is why mandate to health care workers, police etc all been upheld by SCOTUS.
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
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It requires everyone that is not vaccinated to get tested unless they get vaccinated. That is basically back door mandate to get vaccinated. Regardless of what you think of 5th circuit, the fact is , it's federal court and their ruling is enforceable. Only 1 emergency regulation from OSHA actually survived legal challenge, that should tell what court think of OSHA emergency regulations.
So they are not required to be vaccinated. You back door bullshit is just that, bullshit. As you are trying to manipulate the truth using a manipulated false definition to dress it up to mean something different entirely, they also have religious and medical exemptions.... So no, they are not forcing anyone to get vaccinated. You are just using manipulation to support your falsehood.

I never said that the 5th circuit's ruling where not enforcable. I said they are a joke. Lets tell you why. First, the last I heard, the 5th circuit hasn't ruled, they put a stay on it until they receive all arguments, etc, which they recieved on the 12th, and they are still reviewing it. Now if that is their ruling, that Congress did not intend for OSHA to have such authority, how is that ruling based on law and the constitution? It's not, it a ruling on their interpretation of Congress and their intention, not the actual language of the law giving them the authority. They are not even applying the constitution, or their interpretation of what the constitution says in such ruling as it's a ruling based on the interpretation of Congress, not the constitution. Which is why the 5th circuit is a joke because they often do not rule based on constitutional law or standing lawsz but on other interpretations and beliefs outside of the constitution.

Either the law that grants OSHA emergency authority is constitutionally legal, or it isn't. But that isn't what you are arguing, and that is the real argument. You have thrown out "OSHA has lost all cases challenging emergency orders but one". Which really means nothing because there have been very few, and every case is different and to why the challenge succeeded or failed. Currently, by your own admission, it's not being based on laws or the constitution, but the interpretation of what Congress meant, not the language of the law itself.
 
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weblooker2021

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Jan 18, 2021
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So they are not required to be vaccinated. You back door bullshit is no just that, bullshit. As you are trying to manipulate the truth using a manipulated false definition to dress it up to mean something different entirely, they also have religious and medical exemptions.... So no, they are not forcing anyone to get vaccinated. You are just using manipulation to support your falsehood.

I never said that the 5th circuit's ruling where not enforcable. I said they are a joke. Lets tell you why. First, the last I heard, the 5th circuit hasn't ruled, they put a stay on it until they receive all arguments, etc, which they recieved on the 12th, and they are still reviewing it. Now if that is their ruling, that Congress did not intend for OSHA to have such authority, how is that ruling based on law and the constitution? It's not, it a ruling on their interpretation of Congress and their intention, not the actual language of the law giving them the authority. They are not even applying the constitution, or their interpretation of what the constitution says in such ruling as it's a ruling based on the interpretation of Congress, not the constitution. Which is why the 5th circuit is a joke because they often do not rule based on constitutional law or standing lawsz but on other interpretations and beliefs outside of the constitution.

Either the law that grants OSHA emergency authority is constitutionally legal, or it isn't. But that isn't what you are arguing, and that is the real argument. You have thrown out "OSHA has lost all cases challenging emergency orders but one". Which really means nothing because there have been very few, and every case is different and to why the challenge succeeded or failed. Currently, by your own admission, it's not being based on laws or the constitution, but the interpretation of what Congress meant, not the language of the law itself.
At this point 5th circuit ruling is mute. They no longer got the case, any opinion they issue is just that an opinion being now it's in the hand of the 6th circuit. They can vacate 5th circuit ruling, affirm or change it as they want it being it's their case now. Yes 5th circuit issued injunction prior to hearing it as they decided it need to be issued being they seen likelihood in their legal opinion of plaintiff winning the case. Also at the end of the day they been confirm to be on the court by the senate so at least 50 Senators decided they have what it takes to be on the bench.
 

NWRMidnight

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Jun 18, 2001
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At this point 5th circuit ruling is mute. They no longer got the case, any opinion they issue is just that an opinion being now it's in the hand of the 6th circuit. They can vacate 5th circuit ruling, affirm or change it as they want it being it's their case now. Yes 5th circuit issued injunction prior to hearing it as they decided it need to be issued being they seen likelihood in their legal opinion of plaintiff winning the case. Also at the end of the day they been confirm to be on the court by the senate so at least 50 Senators decided they have what it takes to be on the bench.
LOL! So you can't dispute what I said, so you kick the can down the road to a completely different argument. Basically you are a pussy with no backbone with an argument just as limp, so you have to resort to can kicking.
 
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weblooker2021

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Jan 18, 2021
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LOL! So you can't dispute what I said, so you kick the can down the road to a completely different argument. Basically you are a pussy with no backbone with an argument just as limp, so you have to resort to can kicking.
5th circuit issued a ruling of injunction and they basically said that OSHA likely overstepped their authority. Yes Congresses created OSHA, yes that is undisputed fact but what basically OSHA did is mandated everyone to wear reflective jacket regardless if they need it or not as long company got over 99 employees. It's arbitrary number as apparently if you only got 99 employees they are in no danger. If owner got 100 different companies with 99 employees are in the same danger compare to the same owner having 1 big company llike for an example McDonald's?
 

NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
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5th circuit issued a ruling of injunction and they basically said that OSHA likely overstepped their authority. Yes Congresses created OSHA, yes that is undisputed fact but what basically OSHA did is mandated everyone to wear reflective jacket regardless if they need it or not as long company got over 99 employees. It's arbitrary number as apparently if you only got 99 employees they are in no danger. If owner got 100 different companies with 99 employees are in the same danger compare to the same owner having 1 big company llike for an example McDonald's?
Manipulation and lying again I see... They issued a temporary injunction, aka a stay until they can review the case, which you have already admitted, the case moved to the 6th circuit. Also "Likely" is not a constitutional law ruling, it's a "we fucking don't know" but we are going to find a way to rule against it, based on feelz.

The rest of your shit is just that, shit.. it's your own attempt to justify your argument. We have thousands of regulations and laws based off of number of employees and size of the business. How come non of this have been challenged or they have been ruled constitutional?

Oh.. because just like yourself, and most conservatives, along with the conservative judges, they want to be selective when they want to updold laws and the constitution. Which is only done when the laws and constitution supports their position. Otherwise they chose to justify It and rule using other means that support their bias beliefs no matter what the laws and constitution says.
 

fskimospy

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Mar 10, 2006
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Substantial Questions of Statutory Authority Confront OSHA’s COVID-19 Vaccination Emergency Temporary Standard

Here is a long article analyzing exactly why OSHA mandate is in danger of not passing legal test.
Your posts on this are essentially wishcasting. Remember, you were certain that employers wouldn’t have mandates at all right before an avalanche of them.

A mandate is smart policy for the country and hopefully the courts don’t attempt to become judicial activists here and hurt the country further.
 

weblooker2021

Senior member
Jan 18, 2021
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Your posts on this are essentially wishcasting. Remember, you were certain that employers wouldn’t have mandates at all right before an avalanche of them.

A mandate is smart policy for the country and hopefully the courts don’t attempt to become judicial activists here and hurt the country further.
Except courts already blocked Biden mandate and 6th circuit haven't take any action to reverse that.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
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Just my $0.02, but now that vaccination has proven to be successful in significantly reducing the risk of hospitalization and death, I think it's time to dump the mask and vaccine mandates, and let Darwin sort it out.