Best 17inch Flat Panel LCD for Games/DVDs ???

[azkiwi]

Hey Jenova,

I should have checked before I spoke. I looked at the VG175 on the Viewsonic website and though I note they claim fast response times for better resolution of moving images they don't mention Optisync (their version of Pixelworks) and they don't actually quote a response time in the spec's - which they do for the 181 and up (and which have Optisync). The 175 is also analog only, if I read correctly, which also may be a cue to a slightly older tech.

How does your brother like it?

 

[Jenova314]

well he likes it just fine. he knows there is ghosting but says it doesn't botehr him since he hardly plays any fast-moving games, just stuff like civ3.

i haven't read up too much about the current new generation of lcd panels being manufactured yet though, is there a tangible difference even though the old generation claims the same response time on paper as the new generation ones?

 

[azkiwi]

As far as I can tell, those monitors that don't specifically quote a figure for response time are in the 40-50ms range. Those that do are in the 25-30ms range. What does this actually translate to on the screen? Hard for me to say - I haven't seen a fast one, but I guess I'm going to find out soon...

By all accounts LCDs have reached the point where they are of sufficient visual quality to satisfy 90% of users (if not 90% of buyers - due to price). The big price drops are probably over too.

If you in the 10% of users that need more, you should wait another year for 10ms response times to become more the norm.

 

[test99]

Accoring to a representative from NEC/Mitsubishi the FFD displays will not be sold this year at ALL.

So we are going to have to wait or just buy whatever is avilable now.

 

[billhod]

FYI, I returned my VG191 and decided to give LCDs one more try with the Compaq TFT8030 (this was my 4th LCD). While it is not perfect (I can still see some ghosting), it is the best of all the LCDs that I've tried for gaming. It has a 20ms response time (which is the best spec I've seen), and pretty good scaling (1024x768 looks great, 640x480 is a little too blurry). Given that the new FFD monitors won't be out until next year and I need a monitor now, I think I can live with this montior's limitations. Plus, the silver/black design looks great with my other peripherals...

Bill

 

[azkiwi]

billhod,

What card did you end up using with that?
I picked up a VG191 and am quite satisfied with the screen, though wouldn't mind eventually trying a DVI. The only FPS I've tried was RTCW (demo) which looked fine to me on a Voodoo3, though I imagine it would be a lot more happening at higher res.

 

[stevens]

What about this sony LCD? SDM-M61

Has a pretty low pixel pitch, but not many other specs.

 

[azkiwi]

In LCDs pixel pitch is in fixed relationship to resolution and screen size. All 16" screens with 1024X768 resolution will have the same pixel pitch. I'm pretty sure the Sony is behind in response times.

 

[GarthMan]

Hey All,

As noted on Anandtech's web news page, there's (finally!!) a LCD comparison courtesy of Tom's Hardware. Check it out at http://www.tomshardware.com/display/02q1/020114/index.html.

In summary, looks like MVA based monitors (i.e. Viewsonic VX500, VG191) win out for web pages and business apps while some latter TN+Film (newer NEC, Solarism, etc.) do better for higher motion applications (video, games).

My faves have been the VG191, Samsung 181T, Nec 1850X, Dell 2000FP and Compaq TFT8030. Since the FFD won't be out for a bit now (they're steering the first production units for TV based displays, #^#(&@!) looks like I'll take the plunge now. Based with what I've read (and given price and features), I'm w/Billhod and will probably go with the Compaq TFT8030 (it's middle of the road, with the VG191 at $1K, the TFT8030 at $1,200 and the NEC 1850X at a whopping $1,500!)

Cheers!

~g

 

[badga]

Garthman, where did you hear the info about the FFD controllers being allocated to TV displays? i have been waiting to hear anything on this technology. I gave up waiting as well....just got a Planar yesterday

 

[GarthMan]

Badga - actually azkiwi found it from an earlier post (here: Link). I will admit some interpretation. In the article, Mitsubishi mentions "which is aimed at LCD televisions and multimedia displays". I also considered Test99's comment above.

In addition, checking the latest Samsung Press Releases (Link) states the rival PVA technology is being introduced in their TV panels first with an introduction to the LCD market later (not sure when).

Overall it appears that TV will be the immediate benefactor with a follow up in the PC market (I would prefer the reverse).

 

[badga]

Having read up on all the dirt from CES last week, it appears that the home theatre crowd was not all that impressed by the performance of the 40" LCD panels that were demoed there by Samsung and Panasonic. The former had a spec'd response time of <12ms but lots of comments about ghosting, and excessive brightness, etc (mind you that is in comparison to competing CRT, Plasma and DLP. So seems to me that the technology is wasted in that market. Interestingly enough, niether Mitsubishi or NEC is making any investment in LCD technology at this time, Mits is doing all CRT projectors and NEC is big in plasma.

Since the extremetech.com article i have heard nothing about FFD in the PC market, but i am guessing no earlier that 3Q/4Q at this point......

 

[ijablokov]

Has anyone tried this Planar monitor?

http://www.planar.com/monitors/CT1904N.asp

It's an MVA-based solution and seems to have great specs...

 

[azkiwi]

looks basically identical to the Viewsonic VG191 except with USB ports. Nice warranty too.

 

[ijablokov]

...does it suffer from ghosting or is it relatively fast for dvd, gaming, etc?

 

[azkiwi]

it is "relatively" fast. I don't play FPS - the 15 minutes of RTCW Demo I played looked fine to me - but quite a few hard gamers complain about even the 25ms LCDs. There are also variables like individual games and video cards. There have been a lot of posts on this lately so cruise the Search function and you might get more explicit feedback from other VG191 owners anyway.

 

[billhod]

The Planar monitor was the first one that I tried. I'm very sensitive to ghosting in fast games, and I found it to be unacceptable. YMMV. When i talked to the tech support guy at Planar about it, I think I remember him saying that the response time was more like 50ms, not the posted 25ms. I found the text to be great on it (like most of the ones that I tried).

Bill

 

[ijablokov]

bill--

which planar did you try? there are 2 different 19" versions, one 1280 and one 1600... the 1280 SXGA is rated faster than the 1600 UXGA... the 1280 was the one i was looking at... i called them and they said it should be sufficient for dvd's but was looking for someone with direct experience...

 

[Chippy]

Can anyone else chime-in here???
I'm trying to decide between a:

Viewsonic VG191B 19in (~$950 +shipping online)
Compaq TFT8030 18in (~$1300 + shipping online)
Dell 2000FP 20in (~$1359 w/free shipping online)

I'm going to use it for LAN gaming-only. Any first-hand experience or opinions are appreciated!!!

 

[billhod]

ijablokov--
I tried the 1280 version. I wanted the 1280 native resolution as I thought it would be optimal for games. (1600 being too high a native resolution for a smooth framerate). I didn't think that the response time was acceptable, but I'm very picky. Regardless, I'd suggest that you purchase from a store that will either let you take a look yourself or that has a good return policy.


Chippy---
I haven't used the Dell (which I've heard good things about), but I have used the other two. I wasn't interested in the Dell because of its 1600 native resolution. I ended up keeping the TFT8030. I thought that it was the best for me as it seemed to have the least ghosting. As I mentioned above it is best to see for yourself or go with a vendor that has a good return policy. While I'm happy with my choice, it is not as "clear" for games as my old sony G500 CRT. I'd never go back to a big heavy CRT again, though!

Bill

 

[Chippy]

billhod;
Since you are the 1st person to post that seems to actually own a 8030, can you tell me more about it???

How much you paid for it?
Where you bought it?
Any negatives you've noticed?
Any & all gaming impressions - I'm going to use this LCD exclusively for LAN gaming - and I want the best one I can find. Any FPS (Q3A/RTCW/UT/Etc,...) information is appreciated!

 

[billhod]

Chippy,

- I paid $1299 + tax + shipping (ouch).
- From Compaq directly. They have the highest price (full retail price + tax + shipping), but they also had the best return policy (30 days no questions asked with no restock fee and free return shipping). I was willing to trade off the higher price for the easy of return. I had four other LCDs, so finding a store with a good return policy was more important than the lowest price. I already got burned once on a restocking fee from the place where I purchased the VG191.
- Negatives--well, my first unit had a couple stuck sub-pixels. I had to squint to see them, but I'm anal enough to send it back for a new one. Other than that, it is the best 18"-19" I've used. Again, it's still not perfect for fast FPS games. LCDs have a ways to go (FFD, maybe?), but it's acceptable for me. I'm not a competitive gamer, I only play FPS for a couple hours a week, and for that the advantages of a flat screen overcome the negatives.
- Positives--best response time, cool "graphical" OSD, best color scheme (silver/black), good I/O (analog, DVI, S-Video), good warranty (3 years).
- The bottom line is that it's the best I've found in this size/price range, but it may or may not be good enough for you, depending on your sensitivity to ghosting and how demanding you are on the display. LCDs are very personal...

Bill

 

[Chippy]

billhod;
So I take it you sent it back to Compaq & they sent you another LCD which had no stuck sub-pixels???
I'm really scraed of getting a monitor with a bunch of bad pixels...almost as scared as I am of getting an LCD that BLOWS for FPS games...

Thanks in advance for the info!!!!

 

[billhod]

Chippy,

My new 8030 should be here tomorrow or Tuesday. Hopefully it will not have any stuck pixels. I'm waiting to receive the replacement before I send my first one back. If the new one does have stuck pixels, it will probably go back. Although to be honest, I never notice the minor stuck sub-pixels on my current one... It's more the thought that counts. BTW, Compaq is back ordered on the 8030, I had to wait over a week for new shipments both times I ordered it.

Bill

 

[Chippy]

billhod;
Backordered, Huh??? That sucks - I was looking to have whichever one I go with before 2/9/02, which is the next KC Beatdown ...
Maybe I should just bite the bullet & order one now....