Best 17inch Flat Panel LCD for Games/DVDs ???

[IKnowKungFu]

I'm looking for a 17" LCD for general use. I play a lot of games (cs, max payne, wolfenstein) so I need something that has a high pixel refresh rate. I missed that SGI deal this past summer so please suggest some models for me. I've heard people suggest Planar and KDS but a few say they suck. My budget is about $1000 and it can be either digital DVI or analog. I'm lucky enough to have the money to buy a good LCD and I want to get away from my Sony G400 cause I'm losing my eyesight by staring at the text on this thing.
Thanx

PS: any links to reviews or comparisons relating to lcds and gaming would be appreciated.

 

[Demonicon]

I just got a Planar 18.1" LCD that's absolutely amazing for under $1000 at Dell. It has changed my computer experiece for the better. Alot.

BTW, make sure you have a video card with DVI. I would consider it mandatory.

 

[IKnowKungFu]

what are your thoughts about the planar in terms of gaming and dvd playback? any ghosting? I was one of those guys that pushed my system to get 200fps in quake3, so i wanna know how much of a sacrifice i'd make by going for a lcd instead of a crt.

 

[IKnowKungFu]

bump

 

[IMO]

Viewsonic VA800 have very fast response time and design to work well for dvd/gameing

 

[Demonicon]

I don't notice any ghosting on my Planar.

 

[codeyf]

I would not recommend the 17.4" Planar for gaming. I'm running it on DVI thru a Gainward GF3. I get very noticible ghosting while playing Counterstrike and Everquest.

 

[laugh]

ghosting on my Planar 17.4 when playing Quake3.

I wonder if adjusting refresh rate to 75Hz can help? I am using it under 60Hz (i feel it's healthy to LCD).

 

[Link]

I think 25ms is currently the lowest pixel refresh rate for the LCD. Take a look at the Compaq LCD monitor. Theirs are quite expensive comparing to others, but since the best is what you looking for......

Compaq 17" LCD


p.s. make sure you get the one with the base, that is if you get one.

 

[azkiwi]

Look at the Viewsonic Graphics series. The new 19" VG191 has exceptional contrast (500:1) and can be had for around your price range. 25ms response time.

 

[ADxS]

Have a look at this DVI+analog 18.1" LG unit for $900:
http://www.techonweb.com/shop/products/productdetails.asp?id=765513

 

[Hawkes]

Amazingly, I'm in the exact same boat as the original poster (Except I'm still using a Sony 17sf II!). I've heard very good things about the Viewsonic VG181, but could also buy a NICE 21" CRT for around the same price (~$1000).

I'm a pretty avid gamer - is there an issue with playing games on LCD's? Mostly play CS and Tribes2, with a little Flight Simulator thrown in for variety.

Also a bit concerned with being "stuck" at 1280x1024 resolution. I suppose that's OK for a 18.1" screen, but from experience with my laptop, anything other than native resolution looks pretty crappy.

Anyone want to make any comments to try and sway me towards either the CRT or LCD side of the camp? If you had $1000 to spend, which monitor (LCD or CRT) would you buy, and why?

 

[azkiwi]

Here is what I have gleaned - please add / correct if you have experience.

The pros and cons seemly largely thus:

Pro

LCDs are cool and sexy
big space savers - 3-4" deep, often wall mountable
comparatively totable for LAN parties
no flicker at all, so less eyestrain
some can rotate into portrait mode (I guess some CRTs can too)

Con

big $$ (about $5 to 1 compared to a CRT)
some say CRTs still have better text resolution
LCDs look best at their native resolution, other resolutions are scaled (interpolated) which can result in a degree of fuzziness
if you choose a model with a response time greater than 35-50ms ghosting can occur in fast motion graphics
they don't to get reviewed of as often as other peripherals -which probably means we're out there on the bleeding edge of technology

Shopping Points

brightness is a factor - try to get at least 230-250 nits brightness
contrast is a factor - shoot for 250:1+
best image is usually with a DVI - though some question the marginal utility in this - it seems wise to have a DVI capable LCD to provide an upgrade path
As TFT prices have dropped so have CRT prices. You will always get more inches from a CRT ( of course that's width and depth)
There are different technologies in use in LCD screens - some are on their way out.

 

[Apex]

I'd definitely have to go with azkiwi on this one. The 19" Viewsonic VG191 is the best in class for right about $1000. It's $1045 from mwave.com.

Whatever you get, look for something with a 25ms or lower total average response time.

 

[IKnowKungFu]

thanx for all the replies.
i want to ask one more thing: how many of you have actually seen these flat panels run games or dvds in person? i assume ghosting is still present even if a lcd has a response time as low as 25ms.....but how noticable is it? will games look like they're running at really low fps or do the moving images look blurry?

 

[IMO]

I am running a Viewsonic VA800, play Q3 and redalert2 mostly, also watch a lot of dvd movie

it is beautiful and no ghosting that I can tell at all! also very bright and sharp!

 

[ChrisADuffy]

Azkiwi, thanks for the good info. I will be sure to use it while shopping for my LCD.

 

[IKnowKungFu]

what are the differences between the Viewsonic VA800 and the VG191 in terms of performance? on the website it says the VG191 has a 500:1 contrast ratio and the VA800 is 400:1. But then it says the VA800 has 3x faster response time compared to other lcds, but it dosent give the time in milliseconds. The VG191 has 25ms response time. Any thoughts?

 

[Jetfire]

As per Apex's advice, I picked up the Compaq 17" TFT7020. The thing absolutly rocks, it's clearer than any NEC, Viewsonic, and Samsung I've ever laid eyes on.

Running XP at 1280x1024 is awesome..

My only complaint is that after about 6 hours of use last night it developed 2 dead pixels.. they're not noticeable if the image is white, but at any color it shows up as red.

Played EQ last night at 1200x1024. no ghosting at all, then again, maybe when I upgrade from my TNT card things will change.

 

[GarthMan]

The VG191 is much newer than the VA800/VG175. These models are MVA based, so they will have high contrast ratios. The key difference should be pixel refresh. Since the VA800 is undocumented on the website, my guess is it's about 40 - 50ms. Overall, the VA800 should have very good response with some (minimal) ghosting.

Since the VG191 is rated at 25ms, I'm really curious if anyone has played Q3 on it. The higher 25ms should translate to virtually no ghosting at all!

Does anyone have a VG191 and can talk about it?

~g

 

[kendogg]

Can someone please explain to me the meaning of "ghosting"?

Im guessing it has to do with the flickering during game play?

 

[Apex]

<< As per Apex's advice, I picked up the Compaq 17" TFT7020. The thing absolutly rocks, it's clearer than any NEC, Viewsonic, and Samsung I've ever laid eyes on.

Running XP at 1280x1024 is awesome..

My only complaint is that after about 6 hours of use last night it developed 2 dead pixels.. they're not noticeable if the image is white, but at any color it shows up as red.

Played EQ last night at 1200x1024. no ghosting at all, then again, maybe when I upgrade from my TNT card things will change. >>



Glad you like it. Have you tried massaging out the stuck pixels? Dead (shows up black all the time) pixels cannot be fixed, but stuck pixels often (though not always) can be rubbed out. Try massaging it carefully with your finger or a soft pad. Don't hit it with your fingernail.

Ghosting is when, during fast image changing, the first image bleeds into the second. It looks kind of like mouse trails.

25ms will give you almost no ghosting. I've noticed none with my Dell 2000fp (25ms). I'm NOT a good gamer at all though, and some of the best will tell you there's still a tad bit of ghosting during very fast moves. When panels reach 15ms or so, you shouldn't see any ghosting whatsoever (though who knows... things may be different then).

 

[billhod]

I just purchased a VG191, and I have to say I'm very disappointed with its ghosting. I've tried several other TFT monitors (Planar 19", SGI 18"), and while the VG191 is the best of the lot, it still provides noticeable ghosting during fast action (e.g., Quake 3, RTCW, etc.). Going through DVI helps, but it is still a problem for me. I thought the great specs (25ms pixel response) would allow it to be the perfect gaming monitor. Perhaps I have over-sensitive eyes, but after playing RTCW for an hour last night, I had to stop because my eyes were bothering me. A friend who is not into gaming at all said that the images looked "blurry," and I had to agree.

I'm very disappointed because the VG191 looks great when displaying text and slow moving games (e.g., Red Alert). I really wanted a flat screen to replace my Sony G500 monitor, but the VG191 was my last, best hope. Sigh... Looks like I'm doomed to buying a heavy CRT, at least until a new generation of TFTs (or plasma or OLED or whatever) comes out. I just purchased a GF3 Ti 500 with DVI for it too...

Bill

 

[GarthMan]

Billhod: You saved me! I was looking at the exact combo (VG191, GeForece 3 DVI) to replace my 5 year old stalwart 17" Mag monitor. I don't have the desk space for a 19" or 21", so the LCD would work perfectly. I'm sure you were running at the default resolution (1280 x 1024).

Seems odd that some people see no ghosting at all running some newer TFT's (i.e. Samsung 180T, ViewSonic VA800, some Planar's). It would be cool if Anandtech did a feature on the subject (wink, wink)...

Another option is the Compaq TFT8030. It has the newer Pixelworks chipset and 20ms response time (best I've seen yet). It will set you back $1,300 though...

 

[billhod]

GarthMan,

No problem. I'm just really disappointed that after all my research, and getting what I thought was the best in the market, I'm still seeing unacceptable ghosting. I heard about the Compaq TFT8030, but I was really looking for a 19" screen--it does help with the text size. However, if I could be sure that the Compaq had no ghosting, I'd buy it in a second. The problem is that it is very difficult to know how well the monitors work without buying them first. I don't know of a store around that shows LCDs greater than 18" (and even showing the 18"-ers are very rare), and I live in Silicon Valley!

I'd buy any LCD monitor that had no absolutely ghosting that was 18" or greater and under $2000. Unfortunately, I don't think the technology is there yet. I would love to see a comprehensive roundup of 18" and 19" LCDs by a big tech site.

I'm going to play around with the VG191 for another day or two to see if there is anything I can do to tweak it, but I'm doubtful.

Bill