The most annoying things about LCD are those stuck or dead pixels. I have returned couple of laptops just because of it.
I can see that stuck or dead pixels in just the wrong place would be irritating, at least for the very anal among us. I thought I was picky, but maybe not. My VG191 has one always bright pixel high and centered. At first i was pished off about it - more the point of it than the appearace though - but very quickly I just forgot about it. Its only when the topic comes up that I even remember it and sometimes it takes a while to find it - it usually ends up in a menu bar.
If you are really that hung up on prefection (and I know we all expect a lot when we lay out all those hard-earned greenbacks) then its just too early for an LCD. The technology is just getting rolling and in 2-3 years yields, prices and techniques will probably make LCDs as flexible an option as CRTs. Right now they still don't scale well, they have issues with response time and want expensive cards to run at their best. Their greatest virtue is still small footprint, not superior image - its pretty and I love it, but I can't honestly say its a Ferrari to the Hyundai of my CRT. If it was the same bulk as my CRT I doubt I would pay the $700 premium.
If you are really that hung up on prefection (and I know we all expect a lot when we lay out all those hard-earned greenbacks) then its just too early for an LCD. The technology is just getting rolling and in 2-3 years yields, prices and techniques will probably make LCDs as flexible an option as CRTs. Right now they still don't scale well, they have issues with response time and want expensive cards to run at their best. Their greatest virtue is still small footprint, not superior image - its pretty and I love it, but I can't honestly say its a Ferrari to the Hyundai of my CRT. If it was the same bulk as my CRT I doubt I would pay the $700 premium.
askiwi is right. If you're buying an LCD, you're rolling the dice. Dead pixels, slower repsonse are problems, especially for the hardcore gamer or perfectionist. I just wish there was a damn CRT that had the convergence and text crispness of an LCD and I would buy it in a heartbeat, but I've yet to see one. I have a Planar PV174 and Viewsonic PF790 side by side. The CRT looks much better in 3D games. The LCD looks much better in 2D, especially at 1280x1024. My CRT is supposed to do that resolution well, but the text is a bit fuzzy. I'm still deciding if I want to just keep them both, or send the LCD back and maybe get a better CRT or just wait and stick with 1024x768 resolution. Hmmmm.
Hi,
Okay, I took the plunge and am looking at this page via my shiny new Compaq TFT8030.
It showed up at work today. My fellow works, being the ever curious sort, wanted to see what it looked like. Displaying the monitor and my desk solicited many a "ooh" and "ahh". Compaq definitely did a good job with the design of the monitor. Equally amazing is that this unit has *no* dead or stuck pixels. I got really lucky!
I'm running the panel on a Abit TH7-II RAID w/ P4 1.8Ghz, 512MB RDRAM and VisionTek GeForce 3 Ti500 card.
Some cursory tests:
As with any LCD, text and web pages looked fantastic. I did some test streaming video - looked great, no smearing or artificacts. So far so good.
I then did the acid test and booted up RtCW running at 1280 x 1024 (native). I was pleasantly surprised! I did the same test that I do with most LCD monitors, I walk up to a table real close and turn around quickly. No discernable ghosting at all! For comparison, I did notice ghosting on some basic models at CompUSA (HP, low-end Samsung) but this monitor held it's own. As expected, moving images were slightly dimmer (due to a LCD's weaker contrast) . I played the first level for 30 minutes and enjoyed it as much as my 5 year old Mag 17T.
Unlike most LCD's, the Compaq's pixel clock supports 1280 x 1024 at 85Hz (analog) - most only go up to 75Hz.
The only negative is that there is a slight high-pitched hum from the unit. I didn't expect that.
A question: I'm running the latest Nvidia 23.11 drivers and the DVI port is not recognized. Has anyone else come across this? I remember that some folks had to revert back to the WHQL 21.83 to get the digital output running...
~g
Okay, I took the plunge and am looking at this page via my shiny new Compaq TFT8030.
It showed up at work today. My fellow works, being the ever curious sort, wanted to see what it looked like. Displaying the monitor and my desk solicited many a "ooh" and "ahh". Compaq definitely did a good job with the design of the monitor. Equally amazing is that this unit has *no* dead or stuck pixels. I got really lucky!
I'm running the panel on a Abit TH7-II RAID w/ P4 1.8Ghz, 512MB RDRAM and VisionTek GeForce 3 Ti500 card.
Some cursory tests:
As with any LCD, text and web pages looked fantastic. I did some test streaming video - looked great, no smearing or artificacts. So far so good.
I then did the acid test and booted up RtCW running at 1280 x 1024 (native). I was pleasantly surprised! I did the same test that I do with most LCD monitors, I walk up to a table real close and turn around quickly. No discernable ghosting at all! For comparison, I did notice ghosting on some basic models at CompUSA (HP, low-end Samsung) but this monitor held it's own. As expected, moving images were slightly dimmer (due to a LCD's weaker contrast) . I played the first level for 30 minutes and enjoyed it as much as my 5 year old Mag 17T.
Unlike most LCD's, the Compaq's pixel clock supports 1280 x 1024 at 85Hz (analog) - most only go up to 75Hz.
The only negative is that there is a slight high-pitched hum from the unit. I didn't expect that.
A question: I'm running the latest Nvidia 23.11 drivers and the DVI port is not recognized. Has anyone else come across this? I remember that some folks had to revert back to the WHQL 21.83 to get the digital output running...
~g
GarthMan,
Congrats on the 8030, I hope you like yours as much as I like mine--it sounds like it. Looks like you got a winner with the no stuck pixels. Funny thing about the high pitched hum--mine doesn't do that. Maybe it will go away after some burn-in time... I'm not using the DVI port (yet), so I can't comment on that. (I'm waiting for a GF4 before I upgade from my analog only GF3). Let us know if you get the DVI port working.
Bill
Congrats on the 8030, I hope you like yours as much as I like mine--it sounds like it. Looks like you got a winner with the no stuck pixels. Funny thing about the high pitched hum--mine doesn't do that. Maybe it will go away after some burn-in time... I'm not using the DVI port (yet), so I can't comment on that. (I'm waiting for a GF4 before I upgade from my analog only GF3). Let us know if you get the DVI port working.
Bill
GarthMan;
I think I saw posted in another LCD thread - it's on here but I can't remember which one - that you need to use the 21.83 drivers to get DVI to work properly.
Let me/us know how it goes!!!
PS: Where did you get your 8030 & how much did you pay??? Shipping cost???
I think I saw posted in another LCD thread - it's on here but I can't remember which one - that you need to use the 21.83 drivers to get DVI to work properly.
Let me/us know how it goes!!!
PS: Where did you get your 8030 & how much did you pay??? Shipping cost???
chippy can you post a link to that thread...i have been looking and LCDs and DVI for a while and have yet to see any talk about specific detonators being required for DVI - makes me think that this is not the case.
Garthman,
I just received my replacement 8030 from Compaq. This one seems to be free from stuck pixels, but I am now noticing the slight high-pitched hum that you mentioned. Has yours gone away at all? I like things quiet, and this may end up being worse than having stuck pixels for me! FYI, I noticed that this monitor has a later build date and a different revision number than my first 8030...
Bill
I just received my replacement 8030 from Compaq. This one seems to be free from stuck pixels, but I am now noticing the slight high-pitched hum that you mentioned. Has yours gone away at all? I like things quiet, and this may end up being worse than having stuck pixels for me! FYI, I noticed that this monitor has a later build date and a different revision number than my first 8030...
Bill
Billhod: slight hum is still there. I didn't notice it in the office (ambient noise level is higher) but at my home office I can hear it (much quieter here). My guess is it's from the integrated power supply (no brick on these puppies). I'm ambivalent towards it right now (my pc technically makes more noise than it does). But I agree that it's strange. If you still have the original unit, you may want to take them both out to compare.
Stevens: actually the TFT5030 is a comparable unit that's 15".
~g
Stevens: actually the TFT5030 is a comparable unit that's 15".
~g
Garthman,
Yes, I still have the first 8030, and I put them next to each other to compare. The first unit is completely silent. The second makes a very noticeable high-pitch buzz when it first comes on, then settles down after a few seconds to a much quieter, but still audible, hum.
I have to return the first 8030 tomorrow, and if this hum continues in the second unit, it will be going back too. The drone of my case fan is one thing, but this noise is at a much higher frequency and *very* annoying at home in a quiet room. I'm really bummed since this unit is perfect otherwise...
Bill
Yes, I still have the first 8030, and I put them next to each other to compare. The first unit is completely silent. The second makes a very noticeable high-pitch buzz when it first comes on, then settles down after a few seconds to a much quieter, but still audible, hum.
I have to return the first 8030 tomorrow, and if this hum continues in the second unit, it will be going back too. The drone of my case fan is one thing, but this noise is at a much higher frequency and *very* annoying at home in a quiet room. I'm really bummed since this unit is perfect otherwise...
Bill
Hi guys. I just wanted to give my first impression of my Planar PV174 w/geforce 3 ti-500 dvi.
Obviously, 2d images are excellent... i've never seen anything quite as clear or as crisp on my normal working windows desktop (I'm upgrading from a Panasonic SL90, also a very good monitor). Anyway, I can notice the pixel redraw in my 2d desktop if i look for it, and especially when looking at a window that has a black background with white text, moving that window around you can really notice the fade in and fade out.
In gaming, I play a lot of starcraft still and am very disappointed with this game, although it is about 4 years old and only runs in 640x480 without 3d. The colours are washed out and faded, and of course blurry because the pv174 is native 1280x1024. I can see ghosting when the fighters walk around but you get used to it.
In RTCW, i can notice the ghosting, it's actually quite bad for my eyes. I am disappointed in the combo definitely, although I haven't tried many other games yet. It's not to say that RTCW is not playable as it is still okay (and makes me motion sick regardless of what monitor i use). In 3dmark 2k1, I can notice ghosting on certain tests. The nature game is beautiful, as are the pixel point sprite tests and fill rate and bump mapping and so on. But the other two games which typically have > 150fps you can see ghosting in certain areas, which looks like motion blur in a way.
I haven't tried any other games yet but I'm gonna look for some to see how it responds in that. Sad to hear that the planar guys even said it was about 50ms response instead of the 25ms response, the 25ms response is what made me choose this one.
I feel that it'll be possible to get used to this although it'll take some time.
Hope this helps somebody, any questions or whatever just let me know. Thanks.
Obviously, 2d images are excellent... i've never seen anything quite as clear or as crisp on my normal working windows desktop (I'm upgrading from a Panasonic SL90, also a very good monitor). Anyway, I can notice the pixel redraw in my 2d desktop if i look for it, and especially when looking at a window that has a black background with white text, moving that window around you can really notice the fade in and fade out.
In gaming, I play a lot of starcraft still and am very disappointed with this game, although it is about 4 years old and only runs in 640x480 without 3d. The colours are washed out and faded, and of course blurry because the pv174 is native 1280x1024. I can see ghosting when the fighters walk around but you get used to it.
In RTCW, i can notice the ghosting, it's actually quite bad for my eyes. I am disappointed in the combo definitely, although I haven't tried many other games yet. It's not to say that RTCW is not playable as it is still okay (and makes me motion sick regardless of what monitor i use). In 3dmark 2k1, I can notice ghosting on certain tests. The nature game is beautiful, as are the pixel point sprite tests and fill rate and bump mapping and so on. But the other two games which typically have > 150fps you can see ghosting in certain areas, which looks like motion blur in a way.
I haven't tried any other games yet but I'm gonna look for some to see how it responds in that. Sad to hear that the planar guys even said it was about 50ms response instead of the 25ms response, the 25ms response is what made me choose this one.
I feel that it'll be possible to get used to this although it'll take some time.
Hope this helps somebody, any questions or whatever just let me know. Thanks.
Sad to hear that the planar guys even said it was about 50ms response instead of the 25ms response,
Huh.....who said this? that is kind of interesting
Huh.....who said this? that is kind of interesting
Hey All,
Here's something fun. This week my company pulled in a NEC 1850X on a 30 day eval (latest generation NEC w/ 18" display, runs about $1,350 street). Since I have the Compaq 8030, I was able to do some side by side testing.
Pixel Refresh: The 1850X has a pixel refresh of 30ms while the Compaq has 20ms. Running RtCW in native 1280 x 1024 mode, I didn't notice any discernable ghosting on either unit. Running full screen video did great on both units. These both make great gaming panels.
Brightness: The 1850X is not as bright as the Compaq. I have the Compaq at it's mid level (50%) while we had to crank the 1850X to full 100% to get something as close. In games, we left the gamma at default for the Compaq while we had to increase gamma significantly on the 1850X.
Color: Slightly better color satuation on the Compaq.
Features: Ah, the 1850X has the cool-guy pivot feature.
Now that I've tested two latest gen panels, I say we *are* getting close to the perfect gaming panel. If you have the money (over $1K), then I say you'd be happy with either unit. If you "have to have" the pivot feature, go for the NEC. If not, the Compaq provides a good bang for the buck (it's about $1,200 street).
~g
Here's something fun. This week my company pulled in a NEC 1850X on a 30 day eval (latest generation NEC w/ 18" display, runs about $1,350 street). Since I have the Compaq 8030, I was able to do some side by side testing.
Pixel Refresh: The 1850X has a pixel refresh of 30ms while the Compaq has 20ms. Running RtCW in native 1280 x 1024 mode, I didn't notice any discernable ghosting on either unit. Running full screen video did great on both units. These both make great gaming panels.
Brightness: The 1850X is not as bright as the Compaq. I have the Compaq at it's mid level (50%) while we had to crank the 1850X to full 100% to get something as close. In games, we left the gamma at default for the Compaq while we had to increase gamma significantly on the 1850X.
Color: Slightly better color satuation on the Compaq.
Features: Ah, the 1850X has the cool-guy pivot feature.
Now that I've tested two latest gen panels, I say we *are* getting close to the perfect gaming panel. If you have the money (over $1K), then I say you'd be happy with either unit. If you "have to have" the pivot feature, go for the NEC. If not, the Compaq provides a good bang for the buck (it's about $1,200 street).
~g
Zebo
Elite Member
- Jul 29, 2001
- 39,398
- 19
- 81
billhod'
Are you sure the compaq you got does'nt have the same Fujitsu MVA screen as all the others? I have a Princeton Senergy 750 (also w/ alleged 25 ms resp time) and was told by the rep that all MVA LCD's were made by Fujitsu. So it really should'nt matter the brand you buy right? What gives with the compaq?
I also agree that LCD's arnt quite there yet for multimedia applications over 75 fps. But the text and color saturation is outstanding with mine.
Are you sure the compaq you got does'nt have the same Fujitsu MVA screen as all the others? I have a Princeton Senergy 750 (also w/ alleged 25 ms resp time) and was told by the rep that all MVA LCD's were made by Fujitsu. So it really should'nt matter the brand you buy right? What gives with the compaq?
I also agree that LCD's arnt quite there yet for multimedia applications over 75 fps. But the text and color saturation is outstanding with mine.
I guess I will be upgrading my flat panel again soon.
I'm trying to get used to the blurriness in low-res and the ghosting in the games i'm playing right now. Still can't believe how clear the 2d screen is. are there any sub 20ms panels on the way?
I'm trying to get used to the blurriness in low-res and the ghosting in the games i'm playing right now. Still can't believe how clear the 2d screen is. are there any sub 20ms panels on the way?
Carbon, my understanding the Compaq models do not use MVA. I know Planar and Viewsonic do.
Tummy, the FFD technology should reduce response below 20ms but there may be a wait on panels using that until next year.
Tummy, the FFD technology should reduce response below 20ms but there may be a wait on panels using that until next year.
Hmm... next year seems like a bit of a far ways away. I wonder if I should keep this panel..
it's actually amazing, I used it all last night and then looked at my 2nd computer (ADI 5G 17"), and I swear it used to look crystal clear but compared to the FP, it looks like a dog...! About the same as the scaled 1024x768 sharpness but worse geometry and even worse brightness/color saturation/uniformity.. plus that glare...
I wish 5ms fp's were here.
it's actually amazing, I used it all last night and then looked at my 2nd computer (ADI 5G 17"), and I swear it used to look crystal clear but compared to the FP, it looks like a dog...! About the same as the scaled 1024x768 sharpness but worse geometry and even worse brightness/color saturation/uniformity.. plus that glare...
I wish 5ms fp's were here.
and figure the only people really clamoring for FFD technology are gamers - probably not the biggest segment of the LCD market. To the plus; it doesn't require a change in the screens, just the support electronics. That being the case maybe the bugs aren't worked out of it yet..
Back to the top...
what are your thoughts of the Apple 17" TFT and 22" Cinema displays?
Where does everyone stand now with there respective LCD purchases?
what are your thoughts of the Apple 17" TFT and 22" Cinema displays?
Where does everyone stand now with there respective LCD purchases?
To I Know Kung Fu?
What exactly is the problem with the text on your G-400. Most people I know still prefer those models to LCD's, especially for text during long periods of time. What resolution, refresh rate, and graphics card are you running?
What exactly is the problem with the text on your G-400. Most people I know still prefer those models to LCD's, especially for text during long periods of time. What resolution, refresh rate, and graphics card are you running?
i'm running my g400 @1280 x 1024 at 90hz on a Radeon 8500. i know my monitor is great, i mean its the best thing since sliced cheese when it comes to graphics and animation. There's nothing wrong with my monitor. What i meant to say is i dont like reading text on ANY crt. i just can't stand reading the text because i can still notice the flicker. My eyes are very sensitive. I'm one of those gamers that push my system to get the most fps out of my games and i can notice the difference between 100 fps and 110 fps in quake3.
If i browse the web on my g400, my eyes get tired after about 30min whereas if i use an lcd my eyes feel so much better and i can keep reading for hours.
I just wanted to know if there was an lcd out there that could fully replace my g400, but i guess not. I guess right now if i were to choose an lcd i'd consider the compaq TFT8030 or 7020, the solarism LM1711, or maybe even a viewsonic vg181, kds rad-7, bid on a used sgi 1600sw, or the new sgi f180. the new sony sdm-s81 also looks interesting, which has a response time of 30ms.
hope this clears up any confusion.
btw, thanx to all you guys for responding to my thread. its been sooo long since i began this thread and i had no idea how people would respond. guess it goes to show how much we need better information out there about new lcds and how good this anandtech community is.
hope to keep hearing from all u guys about your experiences.
-rich
If i browse the web on my g400, my eyes get tired after about 30min whereas if i use an lcd my eyes feel so much better and i can keep reading for hours.
I just wanted to know if there was an lcd out there that could fully replace my g400, but i guess not. I guess right now if i were to choose an lcd i'd consider the compaq TFT8030 or 7020, the solarism LM1711, or maybe even a viewsonic vg181, kds rad-7, bid on a used sgi 1600sw, or the new sgi f180. the new sony sdm-s81 also looks interesting, which has a response time of 30ms.
hope this clears up any confusion.
btw, thanx to all you guys for responding to my thread. its been sooo long since i began this thread and i had no idea how people would respond. guess it goes to show how much we need better information out there about new lcds and how good this anandtech community is.
hope to keep hearing from all u guys about your experiences.
-rich
sweatypickle,
i'd also love to know why your friends prefer the crt to lcd for text. maybe u can give some advice too.
i'd also love to know why your friends prefer the crt to lcd for text. maybe u can give some advice too.
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