Bernie Sanders

[Greenman]

Are you sure you're a conservative? Openness to learn? Realize you don't know everything? Formerly the most well informed human on the planet?

Sounds like a conservative turned liberal to me. 😉 It's the same route I took by the way.

I'm not a big fan of abortion, I'm a huge believer in personal responsibility, I don't think Bruce Jenner is any kind of hero for having his dick cut off, I really liked Reagan, I sometimes read Drudge, and most progressives annoy me. I think I'm a conservative, but I may be a little lib curious.

 

[glenn1]

Yes, another Bernie thread.

I listened to him on the radio last night while driving home. While I'm a fairly conservative fellow, I found myself agreeing with much of what he had to say. He comes across as genuine and likable, I just don't see how we could pay for all of his ideas. Does he have an actual plan with real numbers laid out somewhere? I'd like to have a look.

We don't need the normal "he's a rat bastard/savior of humanity" discussion, there are twenty of those threads, I'd like some insight as to if his grand plans are possible.

 

[Genx87]

And you're useless. Go away. Preferably somewhere without the internet.

He needs to go to his safe space. It is a giant echo chamber where his ideas are never challenged.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

I'm not a big fan of abortion, I'm a huge believer in personal responsibility, I don't think Bruce Jenner is any kind of hero for having his dick cut off, I really liked Reagan, I sometimes read Drudge, and most progressives annoy me. I think I'm a conservative, but I may be a little lib curious.

That's fine. A real conservative can see that we have to stop the corruption, before anything productive can be done, left or right.

 

[cubby1223]

Yes, another Bernie thread.

I listened to him on the radio last night while driving home. While I'm a fairly conservative fellow, I found myself agreeing with much of what he had to say. He comes across as genuine and likable, I just don't see how we could pay for all of his ideas. Does he have an actual plan with real numbers laid out somewhere? I'd like to have a look.

We don't need the normal "he's a rat bastard/savior of humanity" discussion, there are twenty of those threads, I'd like some insight as to if his grand plans are possible.

No surprise there. Sanders is part populist. The things he talks about are things just about everyone wants. The difference between conservatives and Sanders devotees is conservatives don't have faith that government will be able to execute on the ideals.

Socialism only has a chance of being beneficial to commoners *if* government is extremely efficient in its implementation. When's the last time you described a government program as efficient?

 

[Grooveriding]

There must be a demographic of conservatives in the US who feel disenfranchised and unrepresented by the Republican party. Maybe the fiscal, national and progressive conservatives.

I can think of only one nation where being conservative is significantly represented by the wanting of a pseudo theocracy invoking the name of the great Zombie, the bombing of third world nations, denial of science and considering social programs, such as universal health care, as some sort of abomination. :sneaky:

 

[mysticjbyrd]

No surprise there. Sanders is part populist. The things he talks about are things just about everyone wants. The difference between conservatives and Sanders devotees is conservatives don't have faith that government will be able to execute on the ideals.

Socialism only has a chance of being beneficial to commoners *if* government is extremely efficient in its implementation. When's the last time you described a government program as efficient?

Medicare

food stamps

social security

Pretty much all the social programs.... lol

Some things shouldn't be privatized. Healthcare is absolutely one of them.

Bernie also runs on stopping the corruption, and he is the only one saying anything about that.

 

[nickqt]

No surprise there. Sanders is part populist. The things he talks about are things just about everyone wants. The difference between conservatives and Sanders devotees is conservatives don't have faith that government will be able to execute on the ideals.

Socialism only has a chance of being beneficial to commoners *if* government is extremely efficient in its implementation. When's the last time you described a government program as efficient?

Medicare is efficient. Check out its administrative costs compared with any private health insurance administrative costs.

Good government is possible. It's just unlikely when half of the people in charge of hiring and firing don't care, because inefficiency usually means profits for some vested interest or another that directly or indirectly benefits those people in charge of hiring and firing.

Corruption will always exist. The goal is limiting it as much as possible, as well as making the effort not worth it.

 

[dank69]

Medicare

food stamps

social security

Pretty much all the social programs.... lol

Some things shouldn't be privatized. Healthcare is absolutely one of them.

Bernie also runs on stopping the corruption, and he is the only one saying anything about that.

I see Hillary talking about corruption as well. Whether or not it's all talk or not remains to be seen. She claims Wall Street is paying for ads against her, so if that is true that does tell you something. Then again, it could just be that they think Sanders can't win the general so this is their best shot to get a Republican elected...

 

[mysticjbyrd]

I see Hillary talking about corruption as well. Whether or not it's all talk or not remains to be seen. She claims Wall Street is paying for ads against her, so if that is true that does tell you something. Then again, it could just be that they think Sanders can't win the general so this is their best shot to get a Republican elected...

Rofl... come on, Hillary is as corrupt as they come. Why do you think wall street pays her millions of dollars to give speeches? She isn't giving them the answers to the universe, and the meaning of life! It's legal bribery!

Corporations buy both sides! That's nothing new.



On Wall Street they don’t believe it for a minute. While the finance industry does genuinely hate Warren, the big bankers love Clinton, and by and large they badly want her to be president. Many of the rich and powerful in the financial industry—among them, Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein, Morgan Stanley CEO James Gorman, Tom Nides, a powerful vice chairman at Morgan Stanley, and the heads of JPMorganChase and Bank of America—consider Clinton a pragmatic problem-solver not prone to populist rhetoric. To them, she’s someone who gets the idea that we all benefit if Wall Street and American business thrive. What about her forays into fiery rhetoric? They dismiss it quickly as political maneuvers. None of them think she really means her populism.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/11/why-wall-street-loves-hillary-112782#ixzz3zGEeM32Z
​

 

[videogames101]

Bernie Sanders supporters are morons. Yea, everything sounds grand --- until you realize nothing can be paid for. Any other candidate could easily propose the bullshit this Marxist proposes, but most candidates at least try to have a realistic plan for how to pay for things. Free college? I'm sure Trump would propose that if he wasn't immediately going to become a laughingstock when there's no way to pay for it. Healthcare? I'm sure Cruz would love to toss that one under his belt... minus the part about not being able to pay for it.

Bernie Sanders is a fucking joke. Pay for nothing, take away more of your rights and/or choices, and transition us even further from a hard-working society to a society of leeches. Also, the whole continually expanding the pathetic federal government we have while doing it thing. Sounds like a loser in all regards.

I mean, think about this: how many people do you personally know that you work harder than? Now, ask yourself if you want to keep working harder than those shitheads so they can have the things you work hard for. If you don't mind, then feel free to vote for Sanders. If you do mind, any other candidate, even Clinton (and trust me, I hate Clinton), is better.

Leaches? I bet you like the idea of the american dream no? Do you realize that manufacturing isn't worth a dime anymore? Let me lay it out for you, although I'm sure you'll come back with some bullshit about an inner city student getting $50k in debt to go get a liberal arts degree as a example of how the current system is totally fine and you can pull yourself up by your bootstraps... (lmao)

1. You MUST be educated to have a chance of making middle class wages. Why?

2. You can't have a house and white picket fence stamping car parts anymore. So?

3. If we want to create wealth with our economy, we need workers who are educated because that is the only way to MAKE MONEY in the modern age. THERE IS NO MONEY IN MANUFACTURING.

4. Problem: There is a huge portion of the country who cannot currently afford a college education. (They are the people I would guess you are calling leaches.)

5. If we want our economy to continue to expand, we cannot afford to keep so many poor Americans out of the higher education system. It limits our ability as a country to create wealth by excluding all the "leaches".

6. Because of 1-5: College education for high-demand wealth-creating skillsets must be free for all Americans in order to increase the size of the useful workforce which in turn grows the economy.

7. Conclusion: They aren't leaching off of you, you will be investing your tax dollars in the potential of all Americans and growing the size of our educated workforce. This is how we can continue to create wealth in the 21st century.

 

[dank69]

Rofl... come on, Hillary is as corrupt as they come. Why do you think wall street pays her millions of dollars to give speeches? She isn't giving them the answers to the universe, and the meaning of life!

Corporations buy both sides! That's nothing new.

I don't buy that. Lots of retired politicians get huge speaking fees. That doesn't necessarily prove corruption.

 

[cubby1223]

Medicare is efficient. Check out its administrative costs compared with any private health insurance administrative costs.

Depends on what you define efficiency to be.

Medicare pays out more in administrative costs per person than private health insurances. Medicare doesn't have to factor in the administrative costs per person to receive payments - this is handled by the IRS. Medicare doesn't devote as much administrative costs to reducing fraud and other improper payments, estimated to be as high as 10% of Medicare payouts - greater fraud & improper payouts improve the administrative / total expenses ratio.

It all depends if you want the two-second soundbyte answer of what's efficient, or a deep-dive analysis of what is efficient.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

I don't buy that. Lots of retired politicians get huge speaking fees. That doesn't necessarily prove corruption.

Holy shit dude..... How in the hell can you be that naive, yet survived past puberty?

Wall street LOVES Hillary!!!!!

On Wall Street they don’t believe it for a minute. While the finance industry does genuinely hate Warren, the big bankers love Clinton, and by and large they badly want her to be president. Many of the rich and powerful in the financial industry—among them, Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein, Morgan Stanley CEO James Gorman, Tom Nides, a powerful vice chairman at Morgan Stanley, and the heads of JPMorganChase and Bank of America—consider Clinton a pragmatic problem-solver not prone to populist rhetoric. To them, she’s someone who gets the idea that we all benefit if Wall Street and American business thrive. What about her forays into fiery rhetoric? They dismiss it quickly as political maneuvers. None of them think she really means her populism.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...#ixzz3zGEeM32Z

 

[videogames101]

Depends on what you define efficiency to be.

Medicare pays out more in administrative costs per person than private health insurances. Medicare doesn't have to factor in the administrative costs per person to receive payments - this is handled by the IRS. Medicare doesn't devote as much administrative costs to reducing fraud and other improper payments, estimated to be as high as 10% of Medicare payouts - greater fraud & improper payouts improve the administrative / total expenses ratio.

It all depends if you want the two-second soundbyte answer of what's efficient, or a deep-dive analysis of what is efficient.

Do you count the profit insurance companies make as "administrative costs"? I'm betting no. :\

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

I hope Sanders gets the nod on the Democratic side. I will vote for him for president. If he gets elected I also hope that his plans get implemented so they cost this country incredible amounts of money, don't end up really helping anything (because they won't really screw just the rich, they'll screw everyone), and it will finally shut up all of his pie-in-the sky supporters who are so fucking naïve it's not even funny. I'll be happy to do that just to prove a point, so no snake oil salesman like Bernie ever comes along again.

Of course, even if the above happens another snake oiler will come along eventually again telling people exactly what they want to hear, but never able to actually fulfill their ridiculous promises. It's just human nature. People love to hear what they want to be told. There are too many suckers out there.

So, vote for Bernie...suckers.

 

[mrjminer]

Leaches? I bet you like the idea of the american dream no? Do you realize that manufacturing isn't worth a dime anymore?

1. You MUST be educated to have a chance of making middle class wages. Why?

2. You can't have a house and white picket fence stamping car parts anymore. So?

3. If we want to create wealth with our economy, we need workers who are educated because that is the only way to MAKE MONEY in the modern age. THERE IS NO MONEY IN MANUFACTURING.

4. Problem: There is a huge portion of the country who cannot currently afford a college education. (They are the people I would guess you are calling leaches.)

5. If we want our economy to continue to expand, we cannot afford to keep so many poor Americans out of the higher education system. It limits our ability as a country to create wealth by excluding all the "leaches".

6. Because of 1-5: College education for high-demand wealth-creating skillsets must be free for all Americans in order to increase the size of the useful workforce which in turn grows the economy.

7. Conclusion: They aren't leaching off of you, you will be investing your tax dollars in the potential of all Americans and growing the size of our educated workforce. This is how we can continue to create wealth in the 21st century.

You are brainwashed beyond belief. Not a single one of the seven points you've made are even close to true.

What's the name of the scholarship or grant you've set up with your money?

 

[dank69]

Holy shit dude..... How in the hell can you be that naive, and survivepast puberty?

Hyperbole just makes you sound like an angry child. Is every person that takes a speaking fee automatically corrupted? That's not realistic.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

Depends on what you define efficiency to be.

Medicare pays out more in administrative costs per person than private health insurances. Medicare doesn't have to factor in the administrative costs per person to receive payments - this is handled by the IRS. Medicare doesn't devote as much administrative costs to reducing fraud and other improper payments, estimated to be as high as 10% of Medicare payouts - greater fraud & improper payouts improve the administrative / total expenses ratio.

It all depends if you want the two-second soundbyte answer of what's efficient, or a deep-dive analysis of what is efficient.

Yah, it's much better to just assume our current corporate greed system is better, despite the overwhelming evidence that shows the US healthcare system is demonstrably worse than the systems in place in other countries.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

Hyperbole just makes you sound like an angry child. Is every person that takes a speaking fee automatically corrupted? That's not realistic.

She has gotten 125 million in speaking fees, and you don't think that's corruption? And that's not counting all the shit that goes under the table, or into her fake charity.

That's not hyperbole. You slipped right through the Darwinian cracks.

Now ffs, just read this.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/11/why-wall-street-loves-hillary-112782

 

[videogames101]

You are brainwashed beyond belief. Not a single one of the seven points you've made are even close to true.

What's the name of the scholarship or grant you've set up with your money?

Uh.

4.

You think every american can afford college? Please don't flat out lie here.

Set up with money or a scholarship? Please. I'm $100k in debt right now, but making $80k a year. I'm living extremely comfortably even paying those loan payments. But I recognize I was extraordinarily lucky to be born into a white middle class family with a good school system that allowed me to be so easily living a fairly good life at 23. I want this same opportunity for everyone, a opportunity so many kids just don't have.

Lets stick to the arguments. I can't imagine any argument you might have against my first 4 points at least.

EDIT: On another note, I'd rather pay $1500/month in taxes for other people's education than in loan payments to the government supported banks.

 

[Jaskalas]

Hyperbole just makes you sound like an angry child. Is every person that takes a speaking fee automatically corrupted? That's not realistic.

It takes a child to not see Wallstreet is our enemy.
And we know who they favor.

 

[cubby1223]

Do you count the profit insurance companies make as "administrative costs"? I'm betting no. :\

I wasn't counting anything. I was pointing out what's not being counted in the efficiency numbers I was replying to.

Medicare's administrative costs in 2015 were $8.8b. Medicare is ~15% of the federal budget. IRS cost taxpayers just over $13b in 2015. 15% of $13b is $2b that should be tacked onto Medicare's administrative costs, reducing it's efficiency.

Medicare is 15% of the budget. Medicare accounts for 15% of the debt. Interest on our federal debt was $230b in 2015. 15% of $230b is $35b.

Congressmen and their staff costs taxpayers over $800b each year. 15% of $800b is $120b.

It's easy to claim efficiency when all you need is to believe in yourself.

 

[Brainonska511]

Rofl... come on, Hillary is as corrupt as they come. Why do you think wall street pays her millions of dollars to give speeches? She isn't giving them the answers to the universe, and the meaning of life! It's legal bribery! Corporations buy both sides! That's nothing new.

So how much do you think she should be paid for speaking to people that want to hear her opinions? Or do you think she should be doing that for free? I'm sure her vast experience and perspective is worth something and people have apparently been willing to pay to hear her views.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

So how much do you think she should be paid for speaking to people that want to hear her opinions? I'm sure her vast experience is worth something and people are willing to pay to hear her views.

Are you serious? Experience at what? Pleasuring corporations?

If her performance is worth so much, why don't they record it, and sell the dvds? Why can't they get this information from anyone else? Why isn't she in huge theaters that seat thousands of people? etc... etc... etc...

They are fucking bribes! Anyone with two brain cells firing could figure this out!