Bergdahl to be charged with desertion

[Victorian Gray]

Indeed.

I have no idea who that was a picture of and don't give a shit. I'm referring to the assholes *here* who are lying and apparently don't care that they are.

The chum was tossed into the water and the wannabe sharks are biting. Fucking pathetic.

 

[werepossum]

I have no idea who that was a picture of and don't give a shit. I'm referring to the assholes *here* who are lying and apparently don't care that they are.

The chum was tossed into the water and the wannabe sharks are biting. Fucking pathetic.

That was Susan Rice, who said Bergdahl served with honor and distinction. Something with which you seem to agree.

For someone who supposedly cares so much about accuracy you are remarkably good at not knowing anything which detracts from your presumed to be morally superior position.

 

[Orignal Earl]

That was Susan Rice, who said Bergdahl served with honor and distinction. Something with which you seem to agree.

For someone who supposedly cares so much about accuracy you are remarkably good at not knowing anything which detracts from your presumed to be morally superior position.

You guys don't consider soldiers who suffer from mental breakdowns as served with honor and distinction?
I have to think that's pretty fucked up

 

[Victorian Gray]

That was Susan Rice, who said Bergdahl served with honor and distinction. Something with which you seem to agree.

No, I have no fucking idea as to how he served. AND NEITHER DO YOU.

For someone who supposedly cares so much about accuracy you are remarkably good at not knowing anything which detracts from your presumed to be morally superior position.

Sorry, I thought that you were better than this crap. Apparently I was wrong. Your little partisan war is apparently more important than anything else, including wanting to know the truth.

 

[werepossum]

No, I have no fucking idea as to how he served. AND NEITHER DO YOU.

Sorry, I thought that you were better than this crap. Apparently I was wrong. Your little partisan war is apparently more important than anything else, including wanting to know the truth.

Hey, I supported Obama in making the trade to get him back. I've even pointed out in this very thread that he may have simply cracked (people do that under stress, although it's worth pointing out that if you start making plans beforehand it's hard to sell that defense) or may simply be bat shit crazy. If that isn't good enough for you, then have fun in your very small circle. Doesn't really affect me either way, but supporting investigating and probably trying a soldier who voluntarily left his base in a war zone, which at the very least requires his fellow soldiers to take on more risk to search for him, is hardly a partisan position. Or at least, it wasn't before Obama.

 

[werepossum]

You guys don't consider soldiers who suffer from mental breakdowns as served with honor and distinction?
I have to think that's pretty fucked up

I absolutely do. But again, if one starts planning to leave by asking questions about consequences, that makes it hard to sell that mental breakdown defense.

It's amusing that you guys insisting that we don't know what happened are also comfortable insisting that he had a mental breakdown when we have nothing to support that hypothesis.

 

[Orignal Earl]

I absolutely do. But again, if one starts planning to leave by asking questions about consequences, that makes it hard to sell that mental breakdown defense.

It's amusing that you guys insisting that we don't know what happened are also comfortable insisting that he had a mental breakdown when we have nothing to support that hypothesis.

Seems to me he almost certainly had mental issues.

...

 

[werepossum]

...

Um, "mental issues" is not necessarily a mental breakdown, dude, and does not necessarily excuse desertion. (NOT "walkabout", desertion.)

 

[Victorian Gray]

I absolutely do. But again, if one starts planning to leave by asking questions about consequences, that makes it hard to sell that mental breakdown defense.

It's amusing that you guys insisting that we don't know what happened are also comfortable insisting that he had a mental breakdown when we have nothing to support that hypothesis.

So here we go back to the issue of an honest argument/debate again. Which "guys" would those be?

It certainly wasn't me. I've never "insisted he had a mental breakdown". In fact, I don't believe I've even mentioned his mental health at all.

I noticed that a few posts back that you seemed pretty sure that he had some mental issues though? Maybe you're a bit confused?

 

[Jhhnn]

That was Susan Rice, who said Bergdahl served with honor and distinction. Something with which you seem to agree.

For someone who supposedly cares so much about accuracy you are remarkably good at not knowing anything which detracts from your presumed to be morally superior position.

So silly. That's usually what the muckety-mucks say about captured & dead soldiers in general, has been since long before either of us were born.

It's a platitude, a way of being supportive of all the troops. Nothing more.

 

[Jhhnn]

Hey, I supported Obama in making the trade to get him back. I've even pointed out in this very thread that he may have simply cracked (people do that under stress, although it's worth pointing out that if you start making plans beforehand it's hard to sell that defense) or may simply be bat shit crazy. If that isn't good enough for you, then have fun in your very small circle. Doesn't really affect me either way, but supporting investigating and probably trying a soldier who voluntarily left his base in a war zone, which at the very least requires his fellow soldiers to take on more risk to search for him, is hardly a partisan position. Or at least, it wasn't before Obama.

Which is, of course, to say that you make it partisan because of Obama.

He sent a message to the troops- "You're ours, & we'll do our damndest to get you back if you're captured." Any who aren't fools took it as good news.

That's unequivocal, with circumstances of capture being irrelevant. What may or may not happen next is secondary & those determinations must proceed within the Army, not the court of frothed up attack Obama right wing opinion. Yet here we have the usual suspects passing judgment from third & fourth hand accounts merely to serve that purpose.

Bergdahl? The guy held by the Taliban for 5 years? Fuck him. He's just a stepping stone leading to the Hate-Um Obama podium.

 

[Angry Irishman]

So silly. That's usually what the muckety-mucks say about captured & dead soldiers in general, has been since long before either of us were born.

It's a platitude, a way of being supportive of all the troops. Nothing more.

Maybe in the civilian world, it actually means something in the military. Not just traditionally but your honorable status drives benefits and such. Sticks with you for the rest of your life. There have many POWs that have been deemed dishonorable; I expect Bergdahl may very well join that crowd when this is all said and done.

 

[unokitty]

I have no idea who that was a picture of and don't give a shit. .... Fucking pathetic.

Ignorant, apathetic, vulgar...

 

[Jhhnn]

Maybe in the civilian world, it actually means something in the military. Not just traditionally but your honorable status drives benefits and such. Sticks with you for the rest of your life. There have many POWs that have been deemed dishonorable; I expect Bergdahl may very well join that crowd when this is all said and done.

Who was Rice addressing? Civilians.

Dishonorable POW's? That's determined only after they're recovered, and not by us.

 

[Nebor]

What an annoying thread. Wait for the FORSCOM commander to say what's what. In my opinion, and literally every service member I know, including people who were assigned to do nothing but find him, this guy is a huge dirtbag. I see him a couple times a week (we're in the same unit) sitting at a desk doing nothing. He has to be escorted everywhere by his poor squad leader SSG. The Air Force (in charge of security here) wanted to put him under guard by security forces 24/7 and this was the compromise. His commanders literally aren't allowed to speak with him. It's ridiculous. And it all rubs me the wrong way. I can't wait for this to be over so we can forget about it.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Ignorant, apathetic, vulgar...

The lynch mob forms to the right.

 

[Angry Irishman]

Who was Rice addressing? Civilians.

Dishonorable POW's? That's determined only after they're recovered, and not by us.

Whatever, you're more interested in defending an administration than reality.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

Care to venture an educated guess if Bergdahl will be charged, accept a plea, or walk with his back pay and rank?

I have no earthly idea. It seems reasonably clear to me that he deserted, but he has, in effect, already paid a tremendous price, and the case is so politically charged that there is no way of knowing whether he will be charged. I guess if you were to ask my preference, which you have not, it would be that he be charged, simply because American GIs died trying to rescue him after he walked away from his post.

 

[nickqt]

Whatever, you're more interested in defending an administration than reality.

Let US soldiers being held captive, be held captive forever.

Because Patriotism.

 

[Victorian Gray]

I have no earthly idea. It seems reasonably clear to me that he deserted, but he has, in effect, already paid a tremendous price, and the case is so politically charged that there is no way of knowing whether he will be charged. I guess if you were to ask my preference, which you have not, it would be that he be charged, simply because American GIs died trying to rescue him after he walked away from his post.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/04/w...ied-to-6-lost-lives-facts-are-murky.html?_r=0

 

[Angry Irishman]

Let US soldiers being held captive, be held captive forever.

Because Patriotism.

I'm sure that all means something....

 

[Nebor]

I have no earthly idea. It seems reasonably clear to me that he deserted, but he has, in effect, already paid a tremendous price, and the case is so politically charged that there is no way of knowing whether he will be charged. I guess if you were to ask my preference, which you have not, it would be that he be charged, simply because American GIs died trying to rescue him after he walked away from his post.

It's silly to think that if they hadn't been searching for Bergdahl that they would have been chilling on the FOB playing Xbox. They would have been on other missions, equally dangerous, in the same areas. Blaming him for their deaths is one of the more ridiculous things slung at him. He's a dirtbag, but their deaths aren't on him.

 

[Jhhnn]

I'm sure that all means something....

It does. The meaning exists in one of your self imposed blind spots, so of course you can't see it.

 

[Angry Irishman]

It does. The meaning exists in one of your self imposed blind spots, so of course you can't see it.

You're always so pleasant. I hope to never look through those lenses you view everything with.

 

[werepossum]

Which is, of course, to say that you make it partisan because of Obama.

He sent a message to the troops- "You're ours, & we'll do our damndest to get you back if you're captured." Any who aren't fools took it as good news.

That's unequivocal, with circumstances of capture being irrelevant. What may or may not happen next is secondary & those determinations must proceed within the Army, not the court of frothed up attack Obama right wing opinion. Yet here we have the usual suspects passing judgment from third & fourth hand accounts merely to serve that purpose.

Bergdahl? The guy held by the Taliban for 5 years? Fuck him. He's just a stepping stone leading to the Hate-Um Obama podium.

See, this is why I maintain that you are a buggy piece of code designed to look for key words and regurgitate the supposedly related proggie talking points. No actual human could be so abysmally bad at reading comprehension without accidentally strangling himself with his computer's power cord.

I have no earthly idea. It seems reasonably clear to me that he deserted, but he has, in effect, already paid a tremendous price, and the case is so politically charged that there is no way of knowing whether he will be charged. I guess if you were to ask my preference, which you have not, it would be that he be charged, simply because American GIs died trying to rescue him after he walked away from his post.

Thanks. I guess I lean toward a dishonorable discharge stripping him of back pay and all rank, but then, he'd have to voluntarily accept that. I'm not at all sure if he intended to go over to the Taliban (as opposed to simply deserting), or if the conditions of his captivity were necessarily onerous (if he defected, then he was basically a guest), or whether soldiers really did die specifically because of the search. But being neither a serviceman nor a lawyer, I have no framework to judge against.

It's silly to think that if they hadn't been searching for Bergdahl that they would have been chilling on the FOB playing Xbox. They would have been on other missions, equally dangerous, in the same areas. Blaming him for their deaths is one of the more ridiculous things slung at him. He's a dirtbag, but their deaths aren't on him.

I've seen four types of accusations here. First, that soldiers were on patrols that otherwise would not have been made when killed, specifically searching for Bergdahl. Second, that soldiers died unnecessarily because assets customarily used for their protection (such as keeping routes under observation to prevent IED emplacement) were diverted to the search. Third, that Taliban fighters were suddenly more deadly because of new knowledge that came from Bergdahl. And fourth, that the Taliban launched attacks in increased intensity because they knew the search for a missing soldier stretches thin American resources, increasing the Taliban's chances of killing Americans.

I have no idea how to evaluate these so I'm not absolutely saying that American soldiers died because of the search for Bergdahl. These points are certainly reasonable, but they may not be correct. Cause and effect in war isn't simple to determine, even for people like you who live it.