Bergdahl to be charged with desertion

Page 10 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,350
4,973
136
The guy has been punished plenty already. His punishment was the hell he went through as a Taliban prisoner. Let him get on with his life.

No, he has not been punished at all. What happened when he was "captured" was his own choice when he deserted and presented himself to the Taliban.

People died looking for him. He deserves life IMO. Which is less than the maximum:

The maximum punishment for desertion during "time of war" is death.

Oh and a big negative on that mountain of cash too.
 

Nograts

Platinum Member
Dec 1, 2014
2,534
3
0
No, he has not been punished at all. What happened when he was "captured" was his own choice when he deserted and presented himself to the Taliban.

People died looking for him. He deserves life IMO. Which is less than the maximum:

The maximum punishment for desertion during "time of war" is death.

Oh and a big negative on that mountain of cash too.


I'm really interested to hear Bergdahl's comments.

"Aw gee whiz, I was just going out for my weekly stroll to Taco Bell and outta nowhere these Taliban guys just snagged me". I mean seriously, what could you possibly have to say in a defense to this?

Can't wait to hear his side of the story (regarding the events of him leaving).
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
How about his buddies in his unit that let him leave?

He left in the middle of the night while his buddies were sleeping. This will not bode well for him as he left his fellow soldiers in a dangerous position as he was no longer guarding the camp.

hi signed up to defend the country, not be shipped off to a foreign country to rob, rape and pillage

LMAO!!!!! He knew when he joined the Army that the US was sending troops to Iraq and Afghanistan. My daughter was informed that the possibility that she would either serve in Iraq, Afghanistan, or Kuwait was very high when she joined the Army. Lo and behold she wound up serving a one year tour in Afghanistan.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
He left in the middle of the night while his buddies were sleeping. This will not bode well for him as he left his fellow soldiers in a dangerous position as he was no longer guarding the camp.

Pure ontological speculation that he was on guard duty at the time.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
He left in the middle of the night while his buddies were sleeping. This will not bode well for him as he left his fellow soldiers in a dangerous position as he was no longer guarding the camp.

Pure ontological speculation that he was on guard duty at the time.
I fully expect these soldiers to testify to such should a court martial take place.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/06/01/us/bergdahl-deserter-or-hero/
[quote[According to firsthand accounts from soldiers in his platoon, Bergdahl, while on guard duty, shed his weapons and walked off the observation post with nothing more than a compass, a knife, water, a digital camera and a diary.[.quote]

The denial is strong here and they dig the hole deeper each time.

Apparently firsthand accounts to not count when it discredits ones story():)
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
The denial is strong here and they dig the hole deeper each time.

Apparently firsthand accounts to not count when it discredits ones story():)

Gawd. So if his buddies were all sleeping, how were there witnesses?

Londo tried to paint the picture that Bergdahl left the camp undefended while everybody slept.
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
Gawd. So if his buddies were all sleeping, how were there witnesses?

Londo tried to paint the picture that Bergdahl left the camp undefended while everybody slept.

He was assigned guard duty.
He was not there when he was to be relieved.
He did not have his kit with him.

Had he been taken involuntarily from his post; why no noise /alert was raised?
If the Taliban had incapacitated him; why would they want to leave the rest of his team unharmed when they had the opportunity to wipe all out?

He walked away and did not care for the safety of others. :thumbsdown:

You want to back up Obama to the point that all others will suffer
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
He was assigned guard duty.
He was not there when he was to be relieved.
He did not have his kit with him.

Had he been taken involuntarily from his post; why no noise /alert was raised?
If the Taliban had incapacitated him; why would they want to leave the rest of his team unharmed when they had the opportunity to wipe all out?

He walked away and did not care for the safety of others. :thumbsdown:

You want to back up Obama to the point that all others will suffer
Crap, I did not realize he had abandoned a guard post in a combat zone. That is freakin' HUGE. Why the fuck would his maximum penalty be only five years?
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Crap, I did not realize he had abandoned a guard post in a combat zone. That is freakin' HUGE. Why the fuck would his maximum penalty be only five years?

Maximum penalty is death.

If he had tried to leave any other time than when he was on guard, then the guy on guard duty would have seen him. Like I've said from the beginning, a total shitbird.
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
This guy is a hero-just like GWB was a hero. Mission accomplished.
Wasn't Bush awol from the national guard?
With a record like this, we should run this guy for president. What could go wrong?
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
Maximum penalty is death.

If he had tried to leave any other time than when he was on guard, then the guy on guard duty would have seen him. Like I've said from the beginning, a total shitbird.
At least from the NBC story which is specific about the charges, Bergdahl is not being charged with desertion from a guard post nor desertion with intent to never return nor defection to the enemy, but merely being AWOL. This may be the result of pressure from Obama who of course wants this to go away quietly, but it may also be recognition of the five years he spent as the Taliban's guest. Personally I don't know I'd drop the more serious charges nor take into account his time as a prisoner since there's a good chance he sought them out, especially if I'm trying to pressure him into accepting mast to avoid the publicity of a trial, but since that's a matter where reasonable people can certainly disagree I'm certainly not going to quibble with the decisions of those responsible. It's worth considering the point of view of the servicemen though. If you allow people to walk off guard duty in a war zone, seriously endangering the whole camp, without significant punishment then you may have a serious morale problem.

We should also remember that being served with a list of violations and charges does not necessarily mean he'll face a court martial. The news stories from Fox News, NBC News, CS Monitor and others can be totally true in facts without Bergdahl being charged, as the "will be charged" is necessarily speculation by either the newsies or Bergdahl's lawyer.
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
We should also remember that being served with a list of violations and charges does not necessarily mean he'll face a court martial. The news stories from Fox News, NBC News, CS Monitor and others can be totally true in facts without Bergdahl being charged, as the "will be charged" is necessarily speculation by either the newsies or Bergdahl's lawyer.

True
The information about a courts martial could have been a balloon floated / leaked by Bergdahl's lawyer, the WH or someone within the military judicial system to see what the public responses would be.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
True
The information about a courts martial could have been a balloon floated / leaked by Bergdahl's lawyer, the WH or someone within the military judicial system to see what the public responses would be.
That's a good point.

I wish DVC would weigh in. He could shed a lot of light on the procedure.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
136
He was assigned guard duty.
He was not there when he was to be relieved.
He did not have his kit with him.

Had he been taken involuntarily from his post; why no noise /alert was raised?
If the Taliban had incapacitated him; why would they want to leave the rest of his team unharmed when they had the opportunity to wipe all out?

He walked away and did not care for the safety of others. :thumbsdown:

You want to back up Obama to the point that all others will suffer

That's not what your own link & quote actually says, no matter how desperately you want to believe your own bullshit. How would firsthand accounts describe what he took if they weren't watching him do it?
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
He was *not* on active guard duty when he left the outpost. That has been stated in what's leaked from the official 2010 report as well as by others who where there like this officer (who *does* believe that he is a deserter):

"Nathan Bradley Bethea, who served as an officer in Bergdahl's unit, said in an article Monday on the Daily Beast website that Bergdahl was not on patrol, as some reports have suggested.

"There was no patrol that night," he wrote. "Bergdahl was relieved from guard duty, and instead of going to sleep, he fled the outpost on foot. He deserted. I've talked to members of Bergdahl's platoon_including the last Americans to see him before his capture. I've reviewed the relevant documents. That's what happened."

http://news.yahoo.com/us-concluded-2010-bergdahl-walked-away-185047684--politics.html

Again I ask, what's with the need to lie?
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
55
86
I haven't gone through the whole thread, but from some of the replies ( death, jail for life) I'm guessing there is no way this guy was suffering any mental issues?
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
67
91
That's a good point.

I wish DVC would weigh in. He could shed a lot of light on the procedure.

You rang?

49a9e509-775e-408a-8fa9-c94587325dec.jpg


The military charging process begins with preferral of charges. This is the formal preparation of a charge sheet and its signature by a military member with knowledge of the facts behind the charge (normally the accused's immediate commander). The accused is then served with a copy of the charge sheet by his commander. In the case of a general court-martial (a felony-level crime, which this would be), there is then what's called an Article 32 hearing, which is essentially a preliminary hearing, overseen by an experienced JAG, who reviews the legal sufficiency of the charges and makes recommendations on which if any charges should be pursued to trial (this process is frequently, but not always, waived by the accused). The Article 32 officer's recommendations are not binding - just advisory. The case is then presented to the General Court-Martial Convening Authority (normally the first general/admiral in the accused's chain of command, though in some instances a Colonel can be a GCMCA). The GCMCA formally decides what charges are referred for trial.

In terms of publicity, the military is kind of its own creature since it is in effect a relatively small court (in terms of caseload) that has worldwide jurisdiction. Relatively few military cases attract media attention. I actually sent someone to prison for life as a JAG for child molestation, but few people even on our base knew about it. Technically the existence of a court-martial is a matter of public record once charges are referred, but as a practical matter the military trial courts don't have a docket that is searchable by the public and so information about pending cases is only public if a reporter elects to file a FOIA request.

The Bergdahl case reminds me of one I handled when I was a military defense attorney, and it's a weird one. I had an old man come into my office who had deserted during the Korean War (not from the Korean theater - he had just walked away from his Army base after being sexually assaulted by his NCOIC). He had spent the next 50 years working off the grid, constantly afraid he would be arrested. He had never been married or had a job that didn't pay cash. I helped him turn himself in and the prosecutor let him off with an administrative discharge rather than prosecuting him. Very very odd.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
He was *not* on active guard duty when he left the outpost. That has been stated in what's leaked from the official 2010 report as well as by others who where there like this officer (who *does* believe that he is a deserter):

"Nathan Bradley Bethea, who served as an officer in Bergdahl's unit, said in an article Monday on the Daily Beast website that Bergdahl was not on patrol, as some reports have suggested.

"There was no patrol that night," he wrote. "Bergdahl was relieved from guard duty, and instead of going to sleep, he fled the outpost on foot. He deserted. I've talked to members of Bergdahl's platoon_including the last Americans to see him before his capture. I've reviewed the relevant documents. That's what happened."

http://news.yahoo.com/us-concluded-2010-bergdahl-walked-away-185047684--politics.html

Again I ask, what's with the need to lie?
Nobody here has said he was on patrol, dude, they said he was on guard duty. Probably stems from his gear being left in a guard tower. If he was relieved and then fled, that explains why he's not being charged with the more serious levels of desertion. Deserting from a guard post is incredibly serious; deserting from an unmanned guard tower while off duty is much less so. For that matter, I would not want to be one of the guards on duty who didn't notice a guy sneaking out either.

I haven't gone through the whole thread, but from some of the replies ( death, jail for life) I'm guessing there is no way this guy was suffering any mental issues?
Seems to me he almost certainly had mental issues. That does not necessarily indemnify him though.

You rang?

49a9e509-775e-408a-8fa9-c94587325dec.jpg


The military charging process begins with preferral of charges. This is the formal preparation of a charge sheet and its signature by a military member with knowledge of the facts behind the charge (normally the accused's immediate commander). The accused is then served with a copy of the charge sheet by his commander. In the case of a general court-martial (a felony-level crime, which this would be), there is then what's called an Article 32 hearing, which is essentially a preliminary hearing, overseen by an experienced JAG, who reviews the legal sufficiency of the charges and makes recommendations on which if any charges should be pursued to trial (this process is frequently, but not always, waived by the accused). The Article 32 officer's recommendations are not binding - just advisory. The case is then presented to the General Court-Martial Convening Authority (normally the first general/admiral in the accused's chain of command, though in some instances a Colonel can be a GCMCA). The GCMCA formally decides what charges are referred for trial.

In terms of publicity, the military is kind of its own creature since it is in effect a relatively small court (in terms of caseload) that has worldwide jurisdiction. Relatively few military cases attract media attention. I actually sent someone to prison for life as a JAG for child molestation, but few people even on our base knew about it. Technically the existence of a court-martial is a matter of public record once charges are referred, but as a practical matter the military trial courts don't have a docket that is searchable by the public and so information about pending cases is only public if a reporter elects to file a FOIA request.

The Bergdahl case reminds me of one I handled when I was a military defense attorney, and it's a weird one. I had an old man come into my office who had deserted during the Korean War (not from the Korean theater - he had just walked away from his Army base after being sexually assaulted by his NCOIC). He had spent the next 50 years working off the grid, constantly afraid he would be arrested. He had never been married or had a job that didn't pay cash. I helped him turn himself in and the prosecutor let him off with an administrative discharge rather than prosecuting him. Very very odd.
Thanks, buddy. I had guessed that being presented with a charge sheet did not automatically mean he would be charged, but didn't actually know. Sad about the old man. I have a buddy who just never went back from leave, decided he couldn't handle being in the Army (peace time) any more. He got a hearing (without even being brought back to participate) and an administrative discharge. Of course, this case is a lot more serious than that, especially if people really died looking for him or as a result of his actions. Can't say I've followed this case that closely, but it doesn't seem to me that the case for that is that airtight.

Care to venture an educated guess if Bergdahl will be charged, accept a plea, or walk with his back pay and rank?
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
136
Nobody here has said he was on patrol, dude, they said he was on guard duty. Probably stems from his gear being left in a guard tower. If he was relieved and then fled, that explains why he's not being charged with the more serious levels of desertion. Deserting from a guard post is incredibly serious; deserting from an unmanned guard tower while off duty is much less so. For that matter, I would not want to be one of the guards on duty who didn't notice a guy sneaking out either.


I didn't claim they have. That was a point raised by the officer in my quote. But a number of people here have stated that he 'deserted while on active guard duty'. Based on the official report (and statements such as the officer I referred to) this is not true. (btw, his equipment was found in his tent)

The point being, people are continuously posting stuff that is not true/accurate and they don't care. Hell, you just had to try and make a tiny, rather pedantic point, while still pushing an untrue (based on actual information such as the official 2010 report) position.

Mob mentality/behavior is an incredibly ugly thing to watch.