Bergdahl to be charged with desertion

[Vic]

The military has a whole separate justice system, that apply once you join it.

Basically, if you are full time military you follow that one, on top of the civil courts.

No way!

 

[Vic]

War is a testament to human stupidity.

IMO, Asimov said it best: "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."

 

[MongGrel]

No way!

 

[MongGrel]

IMO, Asimov said it best: "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."

And Robert A. Heinlein and Dr. Paul Linebarger would disagree with him on several levels if we're going to start quoting Sci-Fi writers.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordwainer_Smith

Kurt Vonnegut would agree, there have been both liberal and highly conservative authors there of course over time.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Kurt_Vonnegut

 

[Vic]

And Robert A. Heinlein and Dr. Paul Linebarger would disagree with him on several levels if we're going to start quoting Sci-Fi writers.

Kurt Vonnegut would agree, there have been both liberal and highly conservative authors there of course over time.

I've read Starship Troopers, thanks!

 

[MongGrel]

I've read Starship Troopers, thanks!

That is like barely scratching the surface.

Too far off topic, stopping there.

 

[cabri]

A June 5, 2014 article, that mentions a (unsourced) survey of 8,800 service members, their spouses, veterans and retirees isn't exactly "his peers have spoken".

responses from more than 8,800 service members, their spouses, veterans and retirees to questions regarding Bergdahl's release show the military community would not forgive Bergdahl and want him held accountable if he willingly left his post on June 30, 2009.


Members of Bergdahl's former unit have said Bergdahl deserted his post in Afghanistan. A 2010 classified Army report confirmed those allegations saying it also might not have been the first time Bergdahl left his post, according to a report by Military Times.

1) They want him held accountable IF he WILLINGLY left his post.

2) There is an Army report that states he deserted his post.

So now it is up to a military court that determines if he is formally held accountable for his actions and what the result will be if so.

If there is no military court; then the UCMJ is being thrown out the window for political expediancy

 

[werepossum]

Seems many here wish to think that Bergdahl's friends and fellow soldiers are liars. They've been on TV and in other media many times. I don't think it's reasonably possible to be unaware of their accusations.

They have first hand knowledge. The only proof that could possibly be more persuasive is if a camera crew followed him around filming the entire thing. Anybody requiring such proof is an idiot.

This case couldn't be any simpler. He left: He wasn't abducted. The complication is politics.

Fern

Agreed. There is absolutely no question that he left, and probably no question that constitutes desertion. There are however levels of desertion, especially for purposes of punishment.

The military has a whole separate justice system, that apply once you join it.

Basically, if you are full time military you follow that one, on top of the civil courts.

True, but I think you missed that Vic's point was about whether we should have traded to get him back. Imagine if you'd strayed and been abducted on patrol, and all your mates said you'd gone over to the enemy. You'd still expect government to do everything in its power to repatriate you. People can be wrong, especially about motivation ("I could see what he did, but I could not see his heart to know why he did it") and while I am certain that he walked off of his own volition, I don't want to see a serviceman left in enemy hands because we all know he went there voluntarily. I don't want to see a serviceman left in enemy hands even if he went there voluntarily.

I'm all for Bergdahl facing a second inquiry (to add his side to the previous investigation) and a court martial, and I'm with nearly everyone in believing that Bergdahl certainly deserted and probably intentionally sought out the Taliban, but legally he should start with the presumption of innocence.

I've read Starship Troopers, thanks!

Better read than watched.

 

[werepossum]

1) They want him held accountable IF he WILLINGLY left his post.

2) There is an Army report that states he deserted his post.

So now it is up to a military court that determines if he is formally held accountable for his actions and what the result will be if so.

If there is no military court; then the UCMJ is being thrown out the window for political expediancy

Agreed, and that's a very bad thing.

 

[MongGrel]

I'll just agree with werepossum on all of the above, rather than reposting anything.

:thumbsup:

 

[Jhhnn]

NBC

How about a media outlet that also has habit of frothing up the base?

You have a habit of killing the message because you do not like the messenger.

Faux News & the Washington Times, for starters, are not reliable sources. That's particularly true when the story is rumor set to print.

 

[Victorian Gray]

1) They want him held accountable IF he WILLINGLY left his post.

2) There is an Army report that states he deserted his post.

So now it is up to a military court that determines if he is formally held accountable for his actions and what the result will be if so.

If there is no military court; then the UCMJ is being thrown out the window for political expediancy

There is no such report that I've been able to find a record of. What I have found is a report that said this:

"A classified military report detailing the Army’s investigation into the disappearance of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl in June 2009 says that he had wandered away from assigned areas before — both at a training range in California and at his remote outpost in Afghanistan — and then returned, according to people briefed on it.

The roughly 35-page report, completed two months after Sergeant Bergdahl left his unit, concludes that he most likely walked away of his own free will from his outpost in the dark of night, and it criticized lax security practices and poor discipline in his unit. But it stops short of concluding that there is solid evidence that Sergeant Bergdahl, then a private, intended to permanently desert."


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/06/w...-walked-away-before-military-report-says.html

Why do the people who wish him ill have to keep making shit up?

 

[Jhhnn]

Actually we found quite a lot of WMDs in Iraq. Most are still extant, as Iraq has not yet built a facility to safely dispose of them. What we didn't find were the WMDs we thought had been manufactured during the sanctioned post-war period.

So what we didn't find were serviceable WMD's, correct?

Hell, it's remarkable that tactical artillery rounds & rockets can be classed as WMD's, anyway. They were never intended to be anything other than weapons of local destruction.

That was a bit of propaganda wizardy, for sure.

"Quite a lot" as compared to what? To this?

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Chemical-Weapon-Stockpile-Destruction-Pueblo-CO-05121/

Shee-it, Sherlock- over 20 years into it, the richest & most technologically advanced civilization on the planet still has ~1/3 of what we started with.

https://www.defencetalk.com/us-destroying-chemical-weapon-stockpiles-24069/

The Iraqis obviously needed to do a helluva lot better than that, huh? Under sanctions, of course.

And we did find that reconstituted nuclear weapons program- the centrifuge buried in the guy's back yard, remember?

Wasn't that right near the Terrarist! training grounds? Just down the road from the mountain of Niger uranium?

 

[rudeguy]

There is no such report that I've been able to find a record of. What I have found is a report that said this:

"A classified military report detailing the Army’s investigation into the disappearance of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl in June 2009 says that he had wandered away from assigned areas before — both at a training range in California and at his remote outpost in Afghanistan — and then returned, according to people briefed on it.

The roughly 35-page report, completed two months after Sergeant Bergdahl left his unit, concludes that he most likely walked away of his own free will from his outpost in the dark of night, and it criticized lax security practices and poor discipline in his unit. But it stops short of concluding that there is solid evidence that Sergeant Bergdahl, then a private, intended to permanently desert."


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/06/w...-walked-away-before-military-report-says.html

Why do the people who wish him ill have to keep making shit up?

If he deserted his post, he deserves his courts martial and whatever punishment that brings.

 

[werepossum]

There is no such report that I've been able to find a record of. What I have found is a report that said this:

"A classified military report detailing the Army’s investigation into the disappearance of Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl in June 2009 says that he had wandered away from assigned areas before — both at a training range in California and at his remote outpost in Afghanistan — and then returned, according to people briefed on it.

The roughly 35-page report, completed two months after Sergeant Bergdahl left his unit, concludes that he most likely walked away of his own free will from his outpost in the dark of night, and it criticized lax security practices and poor discipline in his unit. But it stops short of concluding that there is solid evidence that Sergeant Bergdahl, then a private, intended to permanently desert."


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/06/w...-walked-away-before-military-report-says.html

Why do the people who wish him ill have to keep making shit up?

Yeah the military doesn't really allow desertion as long as you intend to return some day.

So what we didn't find were serviceable WMD's, correct?

Hell, it's remarkable that tactical artillery rounds & rockets can be classed as WMD's, anyway. They were never intended to be anything other than weapons of local destruction.

That was a bit of propaganda wizardy, for sure.

"Quite a lot" as compared to what? To this?

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/Chemical-Weapon-Stockpile-Destruction-Pueblo-CO-05121/

Shee-it, Sherlock- over 20 years into it, the richest & most technologically advanced civilization on the planet still has ~1/3 of what we started with.

https://www.defencetalk.com/us-destroying-chemical-weapon-stockpiles-24069/

The Iraqis obviously needed to do a helluva lot better than that, huh? Under sanctions, of course.

And we did find that reconstituted nuclear weapons program- the centrifuge buried in the guy's back yard, remember?

Wasn't that right near the Terrarist! training grounds? Just down the road from the mountain of Niger uranium?

Dude, climb out of the bong. And the Niger uranium has already been sold to Canada.

 

[Jhhnn]

Yeah the military doesn't really allow desertion as long as you intend to return some day.


Dude, climb out of the bong. And the Niger uranium has already been sold to Canada.

Dude, expect ridicule when you try to spin Iraqi WMD's into revisionist history.

 

[DrDoug]

If he deserted his post, he deserves his courts martial and whatever punishment that brings.

How about his buddies in his unit that let him leave? Should they face repercussions for their noted poor performance? Are the guys who are saying that he deserted the ones who let him wander outside the perimeter? If so then that puts a whole new light on what they are claiming he did. That's why I will wait for the military to act, if they even choose to do so. Like any event, there is more than one side to it. Until it's publicly available in official military documents or aired in a court of law (or military court of law), it's all hearsay. If it never sees a courtroom then it's still hearsay (other than what is stated in publicly available military documents). If people want to hang their hats on hearsay then that is their problem. Bergdahl is not Obama, nor is he a proxy for him. I understand that some people virulently hate Obama but this guy is an American soldier and as such he deserves, if necessary, a fair trial.

It's what we are supposed to be all about as Americans, remember?

 

[Vic]

That is like barely scratching the surface.

Too far off topic, stopping there.

Thanks for the links, and I don't want to go off topic either, but I've read literally everything by Heinlein. My favorites are Time Enough for Love and The Cat Who Walks through Walls. I used to have a cat named Pixel (really my wife's cat though).
And yeah, the troopers movie was an abomination.

 

[rudeguy]

How about his buddies in his unit that let him leave? Should they face repercussions for their noted poor performance? Are the guys who are saying that he deserted the ones who let him wander outside the perimeter? If so then that puts a whole new light on what they are claiming he did. That's why I will wait for the military to act, if they even choose to do so. Like any event, there is more than one side to it. Until it's publicly available in official military documents or aired in a court of law (or military court of law), it's all hearsay. If it never sees a courtroom then it's still hearsay (other than what is stated in publicly available military documents). If people want to hang their hats on hearsay then that is their problem. Bergdahl is not Obama, nor is he a proxy for him. I understand that some people virulently hate Obama but this guy is an American soldier and as such he deserves, if necessary, a fair trial.

It's what we are supposed to be all about as Americans, remember?

If someone broke the rules, they pay the price. Period. If his superior did something wrong, that doesn't make what he did right. Let the system work it's course.

 

[DrDoug]

If someone broke the rules, they pay the price. Period. If his superior did something wrong, that doesn't make what he did right. Let the system work it's course.

I agree, let the system work its course. Same with if someone broke the rules, no argument with you there. Same with others doing something wrong and that not being used to excuse his actions. But the reverse applies here too; his actions can not be used to distract from the possible wrong actions of others in his unit. One thing that has always bothered me about this is his having left his post in the past and his unit basically condoning it by not taking action. If he was leaving the base then he had to pass by other men that were stationed at their posts, men who may have not been doing their jobs by letting him leave. He also asked about taking his gear out with him and was told that he couldn't do that.

IMO there is more to this story than meets the eye.

 

[OBLAMA2009]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ith-desertion-ex-military-intel-officer-says/

Gotta be honest, I didn't think any GOs would have the guts to charge him. Should be interesting.

they should charge him with "having a conscience". man i wouldnt have stayed fighting a fricken war either

 

[Nograts]

they should charge him with "having a conscience". man i wouldnt have stayed fighting a fricken war either

If he's going to join a profession like that, maybe his retarded ass should have thought of that BEFORE he fucking signed up to fight the war?

Some people...

 

[OBLAMA2009]

If he's going to join a profession like that, maybe his retarded ass should have thought of that BEFORE he fucking signed up to fight the war?

Some people...

hi signed up to defend the country, not be shipped off to a foreign country to rob, rape and pillage

 

[DCal430]

hi signed up to defend the country, not be shipped off to a foreign country to rob, rape and pillage

He went to help the enemy. He wanted to kill U.S soldiers.

 

[Nograts]

hi signed up to defend the country, not be shipped off to a foreign country to rob, rape and pillage

Because that is so what is going on over there, right?