BCS standings released, 10/29/2007

[kalster]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: her209

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: kalster

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I really really really (infinity) hate the college system. It's gotten bad enough that I'm getting to where I hate college football. The SEC is basically screwed if Ohio St. and BC win out. Even last year it was impossible for the obviously dominant Florida to go undefeated throughout the season.

We need a playoff. I'd really like to know what the odds makers think as far as LSU vs. ANYONE in the national title game. Hell, I'd rather the odds makers put together a top 25 poll than some idiotic sports writers/coaches/random people (Harris). It would more than likely be far more realistic than the crap we have now.

How is the sec screwed if BC and OSU win out (i dont think BC will win out), Lsu should have beaten kentucky, which as it turns out wasn't that good, if there are 2 undefeated teams from bcs conferences then they should be given the nod over a 1 loss team from any conference, if there are multiple one loss teams, then i agree, an SEC team should get the nod since their conference is stronger.

If you admit the conference is stronger then why should 1 loss automatically count them out if there are two undefeated teams? Let's face it, some people want to call the regular season a playoff but we all know that is a joke. If all teams played the same schedule then I would agree. But anyone who tries to tell me BC is a more deserving team than LSU because they are undefeated just doesn't feel the pain of an SEC fan trying to enjoy a sport that is skewed against their conference.

How do you determine how "strong" a conference is?

I guess it all comes down to needing a playoff. Let's put it into perspective: Last year everyone touted the dominance of OSU and Michigan and cried 'Are you going to come whine on the forums when OSU destroys your Florida Gators?' We all know how that turned out.

That's the problem with this stupid system. It rewards mediocrity without knowing for sure if it is or is not mediocrity. OSU proved last year that the Big 10 and it's supposed speed was overrated all season. Did you see just how slow Troy Smith looked against the Gators? Holy crap.

We will never know who the best team is unless the top team from the top 6 conferences plus 2 at large meet in an 8 team playoff.

sec fans seem to love bringing up last year's NC game, the year before that pat white and steve slaton made a complete mockery of sec champions georgia, did that make big east better than sec, no
playoffs are ideal obviously, but we are not going to get it anytime soon, in the current situation i don't think it is acceptable to drop an undefeated team from the NC game in favor of a 1 loss team from a supposedly better conference

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

Originally posted by: kalster
i don't think it is acceptable to drop an undefeated team from the NC game in favor of a 1 loss team from a supposedly better conference

So if BC and Hawaii win out and ASU and Ohio St. lose you're in favor of a BC vs. Hawaii NC game? I understand where you're coming from but a little common sense has to factor in here.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I really really really (infinity) hate the college system. It's gotten bad enough that I'm getting to where I hate college football. The SEC is basically screwed if Ohio St. and BC win out. Even last year it was impossible for the obviously dominant Florida to go undefeated throughout the season.

We need a playoff. I'd really like to know what the odds makers think as far as LSU vs. ANYONE in the national title game. Hell, I'd rather the odds makers put together a top 25 poll than some idiotic sports writers/coaches/random people (Harris). It would more than likely be far more realistic than the crap we have now.

Right, because the odds makers nailed it on the head when they predicted USC's and Michigan's first losses...no wait, the teams they lost to were each 40+ point underdogs...

I'll forgive this horrible oversight, you're probably just too dazed from what must be a perpetual state of ecstasy you must be in because of all the fellatio the media gives to the SEC.

The SEC is screwed because no one in the conference can maintain an unblemished schedule. Win your games and you're in. This isn't like last year where we have a Florida that lost to one good team - LSU's one loss is pulling them down because Kentucky keeps losing - just like everyone else in the SEC. What's worse is that this year's SEC has done a near complete 180 in that the supposed strong defenses have disappeared and has given way to sloppy offensive shootouts.

Besides, LSU needs to win out, and with 3 straight games where they could have lost all 3 instead of just the one...I don't see them doing that. They still have to take care of their own business, it isn't just "if Ohio St. and BC win out", because things change a lot if LSU loses another game, no body but the most irrational and sore LSU/SEC fans would be upset.

Oh and you forgot ASU, who if they go undefeated would possibly leapfrog their way up past a one loss LSU and an undefeated BC. Cry me a river, LSU/SEC missing out isn't the only possible 'unfair' scenario.

 

[venkman]

Originally posted by: EvilYoda

Originally posted by: rocadelpunk
wow Michigan at 12, crazy season.

I know! Craziness! Next week, in-state rivalry! I'll be in Seattle working at 3:30PM 🙁

I'll be in East Lansing making fun of Spartan fans. 😀

dang, if they had just beat Appalachian State, they would EASILY be in the top 5 right now since their only loss would be to another Top 5 team!

 

[kalster]

Originally posted by: flxnimprtmscl

Originally posted by: kalster
i don't think it is acceptable to drop an undefeated team from the NC game in favor of a 1 loss team from a supposedly better conference

So if BC and Hawaii win out and ASU and Ohio St. lose you're in favor of a BC vs. Hawaii NC game? I understand where you're coming from but a little common sense has to factor in here.

i said in my first post, undefeated teams from bcs conferences,

 

[JasonCoder]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak
Oh please. I know (or at least hope) you're being sarcastic, but OSU-PSU is not even close when talking about the big rivalries. Just off the top of my head, I can think of 4 rivalries bigger than that game and that's without even leaving the SEC.

OSU and PSU both have 110k seat stadiums, they arent just "southeastern big" they are "really big" not to mention MUCH bigger fan bases than any SEC school. I know SEC people like to think they have something amazing going on down there but thats just because most southerners refuse to pay attention to anything north of the mason dixon line.

I knew you'd go Bucktastic with that comment. I was born and raised in Big Ten country (East Liverpool, OH) and lived in SEC country for 15 years (attended Auburn after HS and lived in AL 1992-2007). Comparing stadium size to determine a rivalry is ridiculous. Without even thinking about it I can come up with 3 rivalries that are much bigger than OSU-PSU:

1)Auburn-Alabama
2)Alabama-Tennessee
3)Auburn-LSU

I've been to big games in both conferences. My little brother is an OSU alum and when I got him to come down for a couple of Auburn games he agreed....OSU-UM is a huge rivalry, but week-in and week-out the Big Ten doesn't hold a candle to the SEC in regards to intensity and fierce rivalries. OSU-PSU isn't even a blip on the radar when talking about good rivalries...hell, PSU wasn't even in the Big Ten until recently (early 90's, right?).

I think what my friend from the buckeye state was saying is that to us the PSU-OSU rivalry is where it's at after the UM-OSU game. For awhile it looked like Illinois (yes you read that right) and/or Wisky was going to set up for solid rivalry but for my dollar I just loved that beat down in happy valley last Saturday. Oh was that sweet. A southerner may look at that and say so what but buddy let me tell you that was one sweet ass whippin.

CAN I GET AN AMEN

So yeah I can almost agree that if UM doesn't wire its head and ass together than we're going to have to look east instead of north for a good game. Les Miles? MWUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA..... come get some!

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I really really really (infinity) hate the college system. It's gotten bad enough that I'm getting to where I hate college football. The SEC is basically screwed if Ohio St. and BC win out. Even last year it was impossible for the obviously dominant Florida to go undefeated throughout the season.

We need a playoff. I'd really like to know what the odds makers think as far as LSU vs. ANYONE in the national title game. Hell, I'd rather the odds makers put together a top 25 poll than some idiotic sports writers/coaches/random people (Harris). It would more than likely be far more realistic than the crap we have now.

Don't blame OSU or BC, blame LSU for losing to a crappy Kentucky. OSU was screwed out of 2 or 3 NC games in the 90's because of one loss, despite having the #1 tougest schedule. (they played like what, 5 top 10 teams in 95? about as many in 96) All the reasons why everyone said the Big 10 sucked in the 90's (i.e. couldnt produce an undefeated team, beat themselves up) is the same reason the SEC is supposedly good now? OSU would like nothing more than to face LSU and get thier revenge on the SEC (Florida is obviously not going to represent the SEC this year) If everyone gets all hyped up on the Florida win in the NC, thats great, Tressel and crew would like nothing more than to go in as an underdog. (Remember they werent supposed to have a chance against Miami in the 02 NC game?)

 

[xboxist]

Michigan is competitive, sometimes. In the big games, they always seem to face athletic quarterbacks with spread offenses. Their coaching staff just doesn't have the modern day mindset to deal with those schemes. It's like they're living in the 30s, where they think that the leather skullcap helmets are still being used today. Their linebackers and secondary get absolutely schooled by 4 or 5 wideout-sets.

That's just my observation, as a lifelong Michigan fan.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak
Oh please. I know (or at least hope) you're being sarcastic, but OSU-PSU is not even close when talking about the big rivalries. Just off the top of my head, I can think of 4 rivalries bigger than that game and that's without even leaving the SEC.

OSU and PSU both have 110k seat stadiums, they arent just "southeastern big" they are "really big" not to mention MUCH bigger fan bases than any SEC school. I know SEC people like to think they have something amazing going on down there but thats just because most southerners refuse to pay attention to anything north of the mason dixon line.

I knew you'd go Bucktastic with that comment. I was born and raised in Big Ten country (East Liverpool, OH) and lived in SEC country for 15 years (attended Auburn after HS and lived in AL 1992-2007). Comparing stadium size to determine a rivalry is ridiculous. Without even thinking about it I can come up with 3 rivalries that are much bigger than OSU-PSU:

1)Auburn-Alabama
2)Alabama-Tennessee
3)Auburn-LSU

I've been to big games in both conferences. My little brother is an OSU alum and when I got him to come down for a couple of Auburn games he agreed....OSU-UM is a huge rivalry, but week-in and week-out the Big Ten doesn't hold a candle to the SEC in regards to intensity and fierce rivalries. OSU-PSU isn't even a blip on the radar when talking about good rivalries...hell, PSU wasn't even in the Big Ten until recently (early 90's, right?).

Big stadiums make for big games.
What about fan bases? You didnt touch that one. Theres a reason the Big Ten is the "money conference" they have far and away the most fans. What makes a rivalry big? How many people care? After OSU-UM, OSU-PSU is probably next. Why are you talking week in and week out when we are talking rivalries? Rivalries burn because they are once a year. Week in and week out is a conference thing, not a rivalry thing. You cant have a regular season full of rivalries, thats called conference bragging rights. A rivalry means if you win one game a year, its that one, and your happy. Im not saying OSU-PSU is that big NOW, (re: one main rivalry thing) but if UM were to fall off the earth tomorow, PSU would be the likely candidate to step up and take theier place.

 

[Alkaline5]

Originally posted by: kalster
sec fans seem to love bringing up last year's NC game, the year before that pat white and steve slaton made a complete mockery of sec champions georgia, did that make big east better than sec, no
playoffs are ideal obviously, but we are not going to get it anytime soon, in the current situation i don't think it is acceptable to drop an undefeated team from the NC game in favor of a 1 loss team from a supposedly better conference

It always amazes me that a 3-point win over the SEC champion that was only preserved by a fake punt in the final minutes is considered a blowout by SEC detractors. WVU's offense looked good in that game, absolutely, but I think your memory of the game may be a bit skewed by your obvious bias.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I really really really (infinity) hate the college system. It's gotten bad enough that I'm getting to where I hate college football. The SEC is basically screwed if Ohio St. and BC win out. Even last year it was impossible for the obviously dominant Florida to go undefeated throughout the season.

We need a playoff. I'd really like to know what the odds makers think as far as LSU vs. ANYONE in the national title game. Hell, I'd rather the odds makers put together a top 25 poll than some idiotic sports writers/coaches/random people (Harris). It would more than likely be far more realistic than the crap we have now.

Don't blame OSU or BC, blame LSU for losing to a crappy Kentucky. OSU was screwed out of 2 or 3 NC games in the 90's because of one loss, despite having the #1 tougest schedule. (they played like what, 5 top 10 teams in 95? about as many in 96) All the reasons why everyone said the Big 10 sucked in the 90's (i.e. couldnt produce an undefeated team, beat themselves up) is the same reason the SEC is supposedly good now? OSU would like nothing more than to face LSU and get thier revenge on the SEC (Florida is obviously not going to represent the SEC this year) If everyone gets all hyped up on the Florida win in the NC, thats great, Tressel and crew would like nothing more than to go in as an underdog. (Remember they werent supposed to have a chance against Miami in the 02 NC game?)

It's funny that my two OSU buddies say 'Believe me, the best thing that could have happened to us was an LSU loss. We know our schedule is weak and have no problem with that if it results in a national championship bid.' (obviously this is not word for word. This was a summary of our discussion following the OSU/PSU game.) They hit the nail on the head with that one.

BTW, I'll bet if you put Kentucky in the Big 10 they would definitely be top 3 or 4. That's how sad the conference is this year. You have a team in Michigan that loses to a Div 1-AA and gets blown out in the second game then amazingly rights the ship in conference play.

 

[destrekor]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I really really really (infinity) hate the college system. It's gotten bad enough that I'm getting to where I hate college football. The SEC is basically screwed if Ohio St. and BC win out. Even last year it was impossible for the obviously dominant Florida to go undefeated throughout the season.

We need a playoff. I'd really like to know what the odds makers think as far as LSU vs. ANYONE in the national title game. Hell, I'd rather the odds makers put together a top 25 poll than some idiotic sports writers/coaches/random people (Harris). It would more than likely be far more realistic than the crap we have now.

Don't blame OSU or BC, blame LSU for losing to a crappy Kentucky. OSU was screwed out of 2 or 3 NC games in the 90's because of one loss, despite having the #1 tougest schedule. (they played like what, 5 top 10 teams in 95? about as many in 96) All the reasons why everyone said the Big 10 sucked in the 90's (i.e. couldnt produce an undefeated team, beat themselves up) is the same reason the SEC is supposedly good now? OSU would like nothing more than to face LSU and get thier revenge on the SEC (Florida is obviously not going to represent the SEC this year) If everyone gets all hyped up on the Florida win in the NC, thats great, Tressel and crew would like nothing more than to go in as an underdog. (Remember they werent supposed to have a chance against Miami in the 02 NC game?)

It's funny that my two OSU buddies say 'Believe me, the best thing that could have happened to us was an LSU loss. We know our schedule is weak and have no problem with that if it results in a national championship bid.' They hit the nail on the head with that one.

BTW, I'll bet if you put Kentucky in the Big 10 they would definitely be top 3 or 4. That's how sad the conference is this year. You have a team in Michigan that loses to a Div 1-AA and gets blown out in the second game then amazingly rights the ship in conference play.

as a student at OSU who would love to root for his school in the NC, and not be disappointed, like last year.. twice... I can agree with you and your buddies.
The Big 10 is weaker this year, last year it was a better conference even, and years prior to that it had been better as well. Plus, our non-conference games this year we a joke.
However, I have no doubt that OSU, should they stay undefeated, deserves a crack at the NC. They play good ball and I want to see them up against whoever it considered the best in the country, because the way OSU plays, shows they should be able to dance with all the other top dogs.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak
Oh please. I know (or at least hope) you're being sarcastic, but OSU-PSU is not even close when talking about the big rivalries. Just off the top of my head, I can think of 4 rivalries bigger than that game and that's without even leaving the SEC.

OSU and PSU both have 110k seat stadiums, they arent just "southeastern big" they are "really big" not to mention MUCH bigger fan bases than any SEC school. I know SEC people like to think they have something amazing going on down there but thats just because most southerners refuse to pay attention to anything north of the mason dixon line.

I knew you'd go Bucktastic with that comment. I was born and raised in Big Ten country (East Liverpool, OH) and lived in SEC country for 15 years (attended Auburn after HS and lived in AL 1992-2007). Comparing stadium size to determine a rivalry is ridiculous. Without even thinking about it I can come up with 3 rivalries that are much bigger than OSU-PSU:

1)Auburn-Alabama
2)Alabama-Tennessee
3)Auburn-LSU

I've been to big games in both conferences. My little brother is an OSU alum and when I got him to come down for a couple of Auburn games he agreed....OSU-UM is a huge rivalry, but week-in and week-out the Big Ten doesn't hold a candle to the SEC in regards to intensity and fierce rivalries. OSU-PSU isn't even a blip on the radar when talking about good rivalries...hell, PSU wasn't even in the Big Ten until recently (early 90's, right?).

Big stadiums make for big games.
What about fan bases? You didnt touch that one. Theres a reason the Big Ten is the "money conference" they have far and away the most fans. What makes a rivalry big? How many people care? After OSU-UM, OSU-PSU is probably next. Why are you talking week in and week out when we are talking rivalries? Rivalries burn because they are once a year. Week in and week out is a conference thing, not a rivalry thing. You cant have a regular season full of rivalries, thats called conference bragging rights. A rivalry means if you win one game a year, its that one, and your happy. Im not saying OSU-PSU is that big NOW, (re: one main rivalry thing) but if UM were to fall off the earth tomorow, PSU would be the likely candidate to step up and take theier place.

Fan bases? The SEC beats the Big Ten in avg. attendance.

From 2006:

SEC total attendance 6,586,408 with an average of 75,706 (+1,127 change in average)
Big Ten total attendance 5,223,202 with an average of 69,643 (-2923 change in average)

Face it, OSU-PSU is not a big rivalry on the national stage. Big stadiums don't make for big rivalries. If UM were to drop off the planet there would be no OSU rivalry that would make people take notice.

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak
Oh please. I know (or at least hope) you're being sarcastic, but OSU-PSU is not even close when talking about the big rivalries. Just off the top of my head, I can think of 4 rivalries bigger than that game and that's without even leaving the SEC.

OSU and PSU both have 110k seat stadiums, they arent just "southeastern big" they are "really big" not to mention MUCH bigger fan bases than any SEC school. I know SEC people like to think they have something amazing going on down there but thats just because most southerners refuse to pay attention to anything north of the mason dixon line.

I knew you'd go Bucktastic with that comment. I was born and raised in Big Ten country (East Liverpool, OH) and lived in SEC country for 15 years (attended Auburn after HS and lived in AL 1992-2007). Comparing stadium size to determine a rivalry is ridiculous. Without even thinking about it I can come up with 3 rivalries that are much bigger than OSU-PSU:

1)Auburn-Alabama
2)Alabama-Tennessee
3)Auburn-LSU

I've been to big games in both conferences. My little brother is an OSU alum and when I got him to come down for a couple of Auburn games he agreed....OSU-UM is a huge rivalry, but week-in and week-out the Big Ten doesn't hold a candle to the SEC in regards to intensity and fierce rivalries. OSU-PSU isn't even a blip on the radar when talking about good rivalries...hell, PSU wasn't even in the Big Ten until recently (early 90's, right?).

Big stadiums make for big games.
What about fan bases? You didnt touch that one. Theres a reason the Big Ten is the "money conference" they have far and away the most fans. What makes a rivalry big? How many people care? After OSU-UM, OSU-PSU is probably next. Why are you talking week in and week out when we are talking rivalries? Rivalries burn because they are once a year. Week in and week out is a conference thing, not a rivalry thing. You cant have a regular season full of rivalries, thats called conference bragging rights. A rivalry means if you win one game a year, its that one, and your happy. Im not saying OSU-PSU is that big NOW, (re: one main rivalry thing) but if UM were to fall off the earth tomorow, PSU would be the likely candidate to step up and take theier place.

I don't think we agree on what makes a rivalry. For me, it's tradition, history and passion. Don't accuse me of having an SEC bias on this (though I am an SEC honk) because I'll agree UM-OSU is one college football's greatest rivalries, no question about it.

But OSU-PSU? That's a joke, right?

Otoh, if you think, as an OSU fan, that winning 4 out of the last 5 against meatchicken diminishes the rivalry significantly... well, maybe I'm wrong and it isn't such a big rivalry. If it's really a rivalry, another team never takes the place of the rival, period.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak
Oh please. I know (or at least hope) you're being sarcastic, but OSU-PSU is not even close when talking about the big rivalries. Just off the top of my head, I can think of 4 rivalries bigger than that game and that's without even leaving the SEC.

OSU and PSU both have 110k seat stadiums, they arent just "southeastern big" they are "really big" not to mention MUCH bigger fan bases than any SEC school. I know SEC people like to think they have something amazing going on down there but thats just because most southerners refuse to pay attention to anything north of the mason dixon line.

I knew you'd go Bucktastic with that comment. I was born and raised in Big Ten country (East Liverpool, OH) and lived in SEC country for 15 years (attended Auburn after HS and lived in AL 1992-2007). Comparing stadium size to determine a rivalry is ridiculous. Without even thinking about it I can come up with 3 rivalries that are much bigger than OSU-PSU:

1)Auburn-Alabama
2)Alabama-Tennessee
3)Auburn-LSU

I've been to big games in both conferences. My little brother is an OSU alum and when I got him to come down for a couple of Auburn games he agreed....OSU-UM is a huge rivalry, but week-in and week-out the Big Ten doesn't hold a candle to the SEC in regards to intensity and fierce rivalries. OSU-PSU isn't even a blip on the radar when talking about good rivalries...hell, PSU wasn't even in the Big Ten until recently (early 90's, right?).

Big stadiums make for big games.
What about fan bases? You didnt touch that one. Theres a reason the Big Ten is the "money conference" they have far and away the most fans. What makes a rivalry big? How many people care? After OSU-UM, OSU-PSU is probably next. Why are you talking week in and week out when we are talking rivalries? Rivalries burn because they are once a year. Week in and week out is a conference thing, not a rivalry thing. You cant have a regular season full of rivalries, thats called conference bragging rights. A rivalry means if you win one game a year, its that one, and your happy. Im not saying OSU-PSU is that big NOW, (re: one main rivalry thing) but if UM were to fall off the earth tomorow, PSU would be the likely candidate to step up and take theier place.

Fan bases? The SEC beats the Big Ten in avg. attendance.

From 2006:

SEC total attendance 6,586,408 with an average of 75,706 (+1,127 change in average)
Big Ten total attendance 5,223,202 with an average of 69,643 (-2923 change in average)

Face it, OSU-PSU is not a big rivalry on the national stage. Big stadiums don't make for big rivalries. If UM were to drop off the planet there would be no OSU rivalry that would make people take notice.

Again, are we talking conferences or just that game? OSU & PSU avg 105-110k per game. First you say stadium size doesnt matter, then quote avg attendance for the conference, sorry that Northwestern and Indiana have tiny stadiums. That doesnt change the fact that the overall fan base (people who watch/follow the teams) dwarfs anyone else.

 

[JasonCoder]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I really really really (infinity) hate the college system. It's gotten bad enough that I'm getting to where I hate college football. The SEC is basically screwed if Ohio St. and BC win out. Even last year it was impossible for the obviously dominant Florida to go undefeated throughout the season.

We need a playoff. I'd really like to know what the odds makers think as far as LSU vs. ANYONE in the national title game. Hell, I'd rather the odds makers put together a top 25 poll than some idiotic sports writers/coaches/random people (Harris). It would more than likely be far more realistic than the crap we have now.

Don't blame OSU or BC, blame LSU for losing to a crappy Kentucky. OSU was screwed out of 2 or 3 NC games in the 90's because of one loss, despite having the #1 tougest schedule. (they played like what, 5 top 10 teams in 95? about as many in 96) All the reasons why everyone said the Big 10 sucked in the 90's (i.e. couldnt produce an undefeated team, beat themselves up) is the same reason the SEC is supposedly good now? OSU would like nothing more than to face LSU and get thier revenge on the SEC (Florida is obviously not going to represent the SEC this year) If everyone gets all hyped up on the Florida win in the NC, thats great, Tressel and crew would like nothing more than to go in as an underdog. (Remember they werent supposed to have a chance against Miami in the 02 NC game?)

It's funny that my two OSU buddies say 'Believe me, the best thing that could have happened to us was an LSU loss. We know our schedule is weak and have no problem with that if it results in a national championship bid.' (obviously this is not word for word. This was a summary of our discussion following the OSU/PSU game.) They hit the nail on the head with that one.

BTW, I'll bet if you put Kentucky in the Big 10 they would definitely be top 3 or 4. That's how sad the conference is this year. You have a team in Michigan that loses to a Div 1-AA and gets blown out in the second game then amazingly rights the ship in conference play.

Dude that makes no sense. If LSU was still top dog OSU would be #2. Last I checked #2 went to the NC game. Now if you mean it looks like we won't have to face LSU in their home bowl game, ok, but that wasn't just our good fortune, that was the entire FBS' good fortune.

It sounds like you and your buddies have been watching too much ESPN. The Big10 isn't a dominant conference but neither is the ACC or Big12. So what's your point? Only teams whose conferences are having a good year deserve respect or a trip to the NC game? That is so absurd I don't know where to begin.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: JasonCoder

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I really really really (infinity) hate the college system. It's gotten bad enough that I'm getting to where I hate college football. The SEC is basically screwed if Ohio St. and BC win out. Even last year it was impossible for the obviously dominant Florida to go undefeated throughout the season.

We need a playoff. I'd really like to know what the odds makers think as far as LSU vs. ANYONE in the national title game. Hell, I'd rather the odds makers put together a top 25 poll than some idiotic sports writers/coaches/random people (Harris). It would more than likely be far more realistic than the crap we have now.

Don't blame OSU or BC, blame LSU for losing to a crappy Kentucky. OSU was screwed out of 2 or 3 NC games in the 90's because of one loss, despite having the #1 tougest schedule. (they played like what, 5 top 10 teams in 95? about as many in 96) All the reasons why everyone said the Big 10 sucked in the 90's (i.e. couldnt produce an undefeated team, beat themselves up) is the same reason the SEC is supposedly good now? OSU would like nothing more than to face LSU and get thier revenge on the SEC (Florida is obviously not going to represent the SEC this year) If everyone gets all hyped up on the Florida win in the NC, thats great, Tressel and crew would like nothing more than to go in as an underdog. (Remember they werent supposed to have a chance against Miami in the 02 NC game?)

It's funny that my two OSU buddies say 'Believe me, the best thing that could have happened to us was an LSU loss. We know our schedule is weak and have no problem with that if it results in a national championship bid.' (obviously this is not word for word. This was a summary of our discussion following the OSU/PSU game.) They hit the nail on the head with that one.

BTW, I'll bet if you put Kentucky in the Big 10 they would definitely be top 3 or 4. That's how sad the conference is this year. You have a team in Michigan that loses to a Div 1-AA and gets blown out in the second game then amazingly rights the ship in conference play.

Dude that makes no sense. If LSU was still top dog OSU would be #2. Last I checked #2 went to the NC game. Now if you mean it looks like we won't have to face LSU in their home bowl game, ok, but that wasn't just our good fortune, that was the entire FBS' good fortune.

It sounds like you and your buddies have been watching too much ESPN. The Big10 isn't a dominant conference but neither is the ACC or Big12. So what's your point? Only teams whose conferences are having a good year deserve respect or a trip to the NC game? That is so absurd I don't know where to begin.

ESPN will forever jock the SEC, they have to talk up the games that will make them money. While the large Big Ten games gets picked up by ABC for a lot more.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: JasonCoder

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I really really really (infinity) hate the college system. It's gotten bad enough that I'm getting to where I hate college football. The SEC is basically screwed if Ohio St. and BC win out. Even last year it was impossible for the obviously dominant Florida to go undefeated throughout the season.

We need a playoff. I'd really like to know what the odds makers think as far as LSU vs. ANYONE in the national title game. Hell, I'd rather the odds makers put together a top 25 poll than some idiotic sports writers/coaches/random people (Harris). It would more than likely be far more realistic than the crap we have now.

Don't blame OSU or BC, blame LSU for losing to a crappy Kentucky. OSU was screwed out of 2 or 3 NC games in the 90's because of one loss, despite having the #1 tougest schedule. (they played like what, 5 top 10 teams in 95? about as many in 96) All the reasons why everyone said the Big 10 sucked in the 90's (i.e. couldnt produce an undefeated team, beat themselves up) is the same reason the SEC is supposedly good now? OSU would like nothing more than to face LSU and get thier revenge on the SEC (Florida is obviously not going to represent the SEC this year) If everyone gets all hyped up on the Florida win in the NC, thats great, Tressel and crew would like nothing more than to go in as an underdog. (Remember they werent supposed to have a chance against Miami in the 02 NC game?)

It's funny that my two OSU buddies say 'Believe me, the best thing that could have happened to us was an LSU loss. We know our schedule is weak and have no problem with that if it results in a national championship bid.' (obviously this is not word for word. This was a summary of our discussion following the OSU/PSU game.) They hit the nail on the head with that one.

BTW, I'll bet if you put Kentucky in the Big 10 they would definitely be top 3 or 4. That's how sad the conference is this year. You have a team in Michigan that loses to a Div 1-AA and gets blown out in the second game then amazingly rights the ship in conference play.

Dude that makes no sense. If LSU was still top dog OSU would be #2. Last I checked #2 went to the NC game. Now if you mean it looks like we won't have to face LSU in their home bowl game, ok, but that wasn't just our good fortune, that was the entire FBS' good fortune.

It sounds like you and your buddies have been watching too much ESPN. The Big10 isn't a dominant conference but neither is the ACC or Big12. So what's your point? Only teams whose conferences are having a good year deserve respect or a trip to the NC game? That is so absurd I don't know where to begin.

ESPN will forever jock the SEC, they have to talk up the games that will make them money. While the large Big Ten games gets picked up by ABC for a lot more.

ABC owns ESPN (or is it Disney that owns both...I can never remember). ESPN and ABC actually play down the SEC a bit because of the SEC's contract with CBS.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak
Oh please. I know (or at least hope) you're being sarcastic, but OSU-PSU is not even close when talking about the big rivalries. Just off the top of my head, I can think of 4 rivalries bigger than that game and that's without even leaving the SEC.

OSU and PSU both have 110k seat stadiums, they arent just "southeastern big" they are "really big" not to mention MUCH bigger fan bases than any SEC school. I know SEC people like to think they have something amazing going on down there but thats just because most southerners refuse to pay attention to anything north of the mason dixon line.

I knew you'd go Bucktastic with that comment. I was born and raised in Big Ten country (East Liverpool, OH) and lived in SEC country for 15 years (attended Auburn after HS and lived in AL 1992-2007). Comparing stadium size to determine a rivalry is ridiculous. Without even thinking about it I can come up with 3 rivalries that are much bigger than OSU-PSU:

1)Auburn-Alabama
2)Alabama-Tennessee
3)Auburn-LSU

I've been to big games in both conferences. My little brother is an OSU alum and when I got him to come down for a couple of Auburn games he agreed....OSU-UM is a huge rivalry, but week-in and week-out the Big Ten doesn't hold a candle to the SEC in regards to intensity and fierce rivalries. OSU-PSU isn't even a blip on the radar when talking about good rivalries...hell, PSU wasn't even in the Big Ten until recently (early 90's, right?).

Big stadiums make for big games.
What about fan bases? You didnt touch that one. Theres a reason the Big Ten is the "money conference" they have far and away the most fans. What makes a rivalry big? How many people care? After OSU-UM, OSU-PSU is probably next. Why are you talking week in and week out when we are talking rivalries? Rivalries burn because they are once a year. Week in and week out is a conference thing, not a rivalry thing. You cant have a regular season full of rivalries, thats called conference bragging rights. A rivalry means if you win one game a year, its that one, and your happy. Im not saying OSU-PSU is that big NOW, (re: one main rivalry thing) but if UM were to fall off the earth tomorow, PSU would be the likely candidate to step up and take theier place.

Fan bases? The SEC beats the Big Ten in avg. attendance.

From 2006:

SEC total attendance 6,586,408 with an average of 75,706 (+1,127 change in average)
Big Ten total attendance 5,223,202 with an average of 69,643 (-2923 change in average)

Face it, OSU-PSU is not a big rivalry on the national stage. Big stadiums don't make for big rivalries. If UM were to drop off the planet there would be no OSU rivalry that would make people take notice.

Again, are we talking conferences or just that game? OSU & PSU avg 105-110k per game. First you say stadium size doesnt matter, then quote avg attendance for the conference, sorry that Northwestern and Indiana have tiny stadiums. That doesnt change the fact that the overall fan base (people who watch/follow the teams) dwarfs anyone else.

I was quoting the avg. attendance stats because you were talking about fan bases. IIRC only Tennessee has a a stadium over 100k in the SEC. Talking great rivalries in the Big Ten and including PSU is laughable. PSU is such a recent addition to the Big Ten that they haven't had time to develop any "real" rivalries in-conference. IMO, that's like trying to come up with a great SEC rivalry for Arkansas...you can't because they were only added after the SWC folded and haven't been around long enough.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak
Oh please. I know (or at least hope) you're being sarcastic, but OSU-PSU is not even close when talking about the big rivalries. Just off the top of my head, I can think of 4 rivalries bigger than that game and that's without even leaving the SEC.

OSU and PSU both have 110k seat stadiums, they arent just "southeastern big" they are "really big" not to mention MUCH bigger fan bases than any SEC school. I know SEC people like to think they have something amazing going on down there but thats just because most southerners refuse to pay attention to anything north of the mason dixon line.

I knew you'd go Bucktastic with that comment. I was born and raised in Big Ten country (East Liverpool, OH) and lived in SEC country for 15 years (attended Auburn after HS and lived in AL 1992-2007). Comparing stadium size to determine a rivalry is ridiculous. Without even thinking about it I can come up with 3 rivalries that are much bigger than OSU-PSU:

1)Auburn-Alabama
2)Alabama-Tennessee
3)Auburn-LSU

I've been to big games in both conferences. My little brother is an OSU alum and when I got him to come down for a couple of Auburn games he agreed....OSU-UM is a huge rivalry, but week-in and week-out the Big Ten doesn't hold a candle to the SEC in regards to intensity and fierce rivalries. OSU-PSU isn't even a blip on the radar when talking about good rivalries...hell, PSU wasn't even in the Big Ten until recently (early 90's, right?).

Big stadiums make for big games.
What about fan bases? You didnt touch that one. Theres a reason the Big Ten is the "money conference" they have far and away the most fans. What makes a rivalry big? How many people care? After OSU-UM, OSU-PSU is probably next. Why are you talking week in and week out when we are talking rivalries? Rivalries burn because they are once a year. Week in and week out is a conference thing, not a rivalry thing. You cant have a regular season full of rivalries, thats called conference bragging rights. A rivalry means if you win one game a year, its that one, and your happy. Im not saying OSU-PSU is that big NOW, (re: one main rivalry thing) but if UM were to fall off the earth tomorow, PSU would be the likely candidate to step up and take theier place.

Fan bases? The SEC beats the Big Ten in avg. attendance.

From 2006:

SEC total attendance 6,586,408 with an average of 75,706 (+1,127 change in average)
Big Ten total attendance 5,223,202 with an average of 69,643 (-2923 change in average)

Face it, OSU-PSU is not a big rivalry on the national stage. Big stadiums don't make for big rivalries. If UM were to drop off the planet there would be no OSU rivalry that would make people take notice.

Again, are we talking conferences or just that game? OSU & PSU avg 105-110k per game. First you say stadium size doesnt matter, then quote avg attendance for the conference, sorry that Northwestern and Indiana have tiny stadiums. That doesnt change the fact that the overall fan base (people who watch/follow the teams) dwarfs anyone else.

I was quoting the avg. attendance stats because you were talking about fan bases. IIRC only Tennessee has a a stadium over 100k in the SEC. Talking great rivalries in the Big Ten and including PSU is laughable. PSU is such a recent addition to the Big Ten that they haven't had time to develop any "real" rivalries in-conference. IMO, that's like trying to come up with a great SEC rivalry for Arkansas...you can't because they were only added after the SWC folded and haven't been around long enough.

Fan base != attendance. ND easily has the nations largest fan base but because of thier small stadium has a pretty unimpressive avg attendance.

I dont think PSU only being in the big ten since 1990 would negate them from forming a big rivalry. (again, wtf does conferences have to do with rivalries?) Thats like saying ND-UM or ND-USC cant be rivalries.

ESPN certainly doesnt talk down the SEC, they have been circle jerking them all year. Just look at how they tried to prop up Kentucky after LSU lost to them. Unfortunately KY just gave up 31 points to the nations worst offense, and only managed to score 14, ya, 14, and ESPN was saying "this offense can hang with anyone in the country" bwuhahaha. Ky was ranked as high as 8th in the polls just a couple of weeks ago, talk about over-hyped.

 

[Svnla]

Top 10 football stadiums in the US:

1. Michigan Stadium - Ann Arbor, MI - 107,501 seats

http://naomi2001.50megs.com/images/uofm1.jpg

2. Beaver Stadium - State College, PA - 107,282 seats

http://www.psu.edu/ur/presspas...ges/beaver_stadium.jpg

3. Neyland Stadium - Knoxville, TN - 104,079 seats

http://www.collegecharlie.com/files/tenn_stadium.jpg

4. Ohio Stadium - Columbus, OH - 101,568 seats

http://www.centralohio.com/ohi...ry/stadium/photo02.jpg

5. Rose Bowl - Pasadena, CA - 98,636 seats

http://www.tournamentofroses.com/photos/rb_birdseye.jpg

6. LA Memorial Coliseum - Los Angeles, CA - 92,000 seats

http://www.thisistheusfl.com/U...LA%20coliseumtitle.jpg

7. Tiger Stadium - Baton Rouge, LA - 91,600 seats

http://www.2cuz.com/fansgate/gallery/stad05.jpg

8. Sanford Stadium - Athens, GA - 86,520 seats

http://www.pbase.com/image/22986699.jpg

9. FedEx Field - Landover, MD - 86,484 seats

http://www.sfo.com/~csuppes/NF...tonRedskins/aerial.jpg

10. Jordan-Hare Stadium, Auburn, AL - 86,063 seats

http://www.pbase.com/image/22924983.jpg

Source: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/...ndex.php/t-100572.html

Look like the SEC is well represented...4 out of 10

 

[Gibsons]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Feldenak
Oh please. I know (or at least hope) you're being sarcastic, but OSU-PSU is not even close when talking about the big rivalries. Just off the top of my head, I can think of 4 rivalries bigger than that game and that's without even leaving the SEC.

OSU and PSU both have 110k seat stadiums, they arent just "southeastern big" they are "really big" not to mention MUCH bigger fan bases than any SEC school. I know SEC people like to think they have something amazing going on down there but thats just because most southerners refuse to pay attention to anything north of the mason dixon line.

I knew you'd go Bucktastic with that comment. I was born and raised in Big Ten country (East Liverpool, OH) and lived in SEC country for 15 years (attended Auburn after HS and lived in AL 1992-2007). Comparing stadium size to determine a rivalry is ridiculous. Without even thinking about it I can come up with 3 rivalries that are much bigger than OSU-PSU:

1)Auburn-Alabama
2)Alabama-Tennessee
3)Auburn-LSU

I've been to big games in both conferences. My little brother is an OSU alum and when I got him to come down for a couple of Auburn games he agreed....OSU-UM is a huge rivalry, but week-in and week-out the Big Ten doesn't hold a candle to the SEC in regards to intensity and fierce rivalries. OSU-PSU isn't even a blip on the radar when talking about good rivalries...hell, PSU wasn't even in the Big Ten until recently (early 90's, right?).

Big stadiums make for big games.
What about fan bases? You didnt touch that one. Theres a reason the Big Ten is the "money conference" they have far and away the most fans. What makes a rivalry big? How many people care? After OSU-UM, OSU-PSU is probably next. Why are you talking week in and week out when we are talking rivalries? Rivalries burn because they are once a year. Week in and week out is a conference thing, not a rivalry thing. You cant have a regular season full of rivalries, thats called conference bragging rights. A rivalry means if you win one game a year, its that one, and your happy. Im not saying OSU-PSU is that big NOW, (re: one main rivalry thing) but if UM were to fall off the earth tomorow, PSU would be the likely candidate to step up and take theier place.

Fan bases? The SEC beats the Big Ten in avg. attendance.

From 2006:

SEC total attendance 6,586,408 with an average of 75,706 (+1,127 change in average)
Big Ten total attendance 5,223,202 with an average of 69,643 (-2923 change in average)

Face it, OSU-PSU is not a big rivalry on the national stage. Big stadiums don't make for big rivalries. If UM were to drop off the planet there would be no OSU rivalry that would make people take notice.

Again, are we talking conferences or just that game? OSU & PSU avg 105-110k per game. First you say stadium size doesnt matter, then quote avg attendance for the conference, sorry that Northwestern and Indiana have tiny stadiums. That doesnt change the fact that the overall fan base (people who watch/follow the teams) dwarfs anyone else.

I was quoting the avg. attendance stats because you were talking about fan bases. IIRC only Tennessee has a a stadium over 100k in the SEC. Talking great rivalries in the Big Ten and including PSU is laughable. PSU is such a recent addition to the Big Ten that they haven't had time to develop any "real" rivalries in-conference. IMO, that's like trying to come up with a great SEC rivalry for Arkansas...you can't because they were only added after the SWC folded and haven't been around long enough.

Fan base != attendance. ND easily has the nations largest fan base but because of thier small stadium has a pretty unimpressive avg attendance.

I dont think PSU only being in the big ten since 1990 would negate them from forming a big rivalry. (again, wtf does conferences have to do with rivalries?) Thats like saying ND-UM or ND-USC cant be rivalries.

ESPN certainly doesnt talk down the SEC, they have been circle jerking them all year. Just look at how they tried to prop up Kentucky after LSU lost to them. Unfortunately KY just gave up 31 points to the nations worst offense, and only managed to score 14, ya, 14, and ESPN was saying "this offense can hang with anyone in the country" bwuhahaha. Ky was ranked as high as 8th in the polls just a couple of weeks ago, talk about over-hyped.

I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse or not.

Feldenak's point was that you don't have a great rivalry unless the two teams have been playing regularly for a very long time. OSU-PSU have only been playing regularly since PSU joined the Big Ten, which wasn't that long ago. IF they had been playing each other most every year since the 60's (or 20s...) then yeah, it might rank up there, regardless of whether PSU had ever joined the Big Ten or not.

In any case, OSU-PSU just isn't one of college football's great rivalries. The history and tradition just isn't there, and I suspect neither is the hatred.

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: Svnla
Top 10 football stadiums in the US:

1. Michigan Stadium - Ann Arbor, MI - 107,501 seats

http://naomi2001.50megs.com/images/uofm1.jpg

2. Beaver Stadium - State College, PA - 107,282 seats

http://www.psu.edu/ur/presspas...ges/beaver_stadium.jpg

3. Neyland Stadium - Knoxville, TN - 104,079 seats

http://www.collegecharlie.com/files/tenn_stadium.jpg

4. Ohio Stadium - Columbus, OH - 101,568 seats

http://www.centralohio.com/ohi...ry/stadium/photo02.jpg

5. Rose Bowl - Pasadena, CA - 98,636 seats

http://www.tournamentofroses.com/photos/rb_birdseye.jpg

6. LA Memorial Coliseum - Los Angeles, CA - 92,000 seats

http://www.thisistheusfl.com/U...LA%20coliseumtitle.jpg

7. Tiger Stadium - Baton Rouge, LA - 91,600 seats

http://www.2cuz.com/fansgate/gallery/stad05.jpg

8. Sanford Stadium - Athens, GA - 86,520 seats

http://www.pbase.com/image/22986699.jpg

9. FedEx Field - Landover, MD - 86,484 seats

http://www.sfo.com/~csuppes/NF...tonRedskins/aerial.jpg

10. Jordan-Hare Stadium, Auburn, AL - 86,063 seats

http://www.pbase.com/image/22924983.jpg

Source: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/...ndex.php/t-100572.html

Look like the SEC is well represented...4 out of 10

In terms of capacity? Yes. In terms of experience, no.
Rose Bowl only has heritage. Terrible seats, crappy facilities, crappy freeways that surround it.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: Gibsons
I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse or not.

Feldenak's point was that you don't have a great rivalry unless the two teams have been playing regularly for a very long time. OSU-PSU have only been playing regularly since PSU joined the Big Ten, which wasn't that long ago. IF they had been playing each other most every year since the 60's (or 20s...) then yeah, it might rank up there, regardless of whether PSU had ever joined the Big Ten or not.

In any case, OSU-PSU just isn't one of college football's great rivalries. The history and tradition just isn't there, and I suspect neither is the hatred.

Oh the hatred is there, I was at a post game in c-bus I want to say '98 or '99, and fans were flipping cars over and torching them. I heard similar things happened the next year at PSU.

But no I wasn't being totally serious, this all started when I was poking fun at Michigan, then at a Michigan fan, saying if Carr doesnt get his act together we'll replace UM with PSU in the "Greatest Rivalry In Sports" that of course wouldnt happen, but its fun to jab Mich fans with such a statement. Then whats his nuts came in with some SEC hoopla and it went down hill from there.

But I dont neccesarily think two schools have to play eachother for a long time to have a rivalry, the now dead Toledo-Marshall rivalry was as nasty as they come, but really only lasted while Marshall was in the MAC. They rarely played eachother before, and will likely rearely play eachother much again. But it was pretty intense for as far as the mid major schools go. It wasnt that they played a long time, its that they both kept knocking eachother out of the MAC championship each year. just an example.

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: Gibsons
I don't know if you're being deliberately obtuse or not.

Feldenak's point was that you don't have a great rivalry unless the two teams have been playing regularly for a very long time. OSU-PSU have only been playing regularly since PSU joined the Big Ten, which wasn't that long ago. IF they had been playing each other most every year since the 60's (or 20s...) then yeah, it might rank up there, regardless of whether PSU had ever joined the Big Ten or not.

In any case, OSU-PSU just isn't one of college football's great rivalries. The history and tradition just isn't there, and I suspect neither is the hatred.

Oh the hatred is there, I was at a post game in c-bus I want to say '98 or '99, and fans were flipping cars over and torching them. I heard similar things happened the next year at PSU.

That's standard fare for OSU fans. It's news if there isn't a riot.

But no I wasn't being totally serious, this all started when I was poking fun at Michigan, then at a Michigan fan, saying if Carr doesnt get his act together we'll replace UM with PSU in the "Greatest Rivalry In Sports" that of course wouldnt happen, but its fun to jab Mich fans with such a statement. Then whats his nuts came in with some SEC hoopla and it went down hill from there.

Oh please, I gave the OSU-UM game its due as a good rivalry. I think I'm generally pretty even in my praise for most conferences...except the PAC-1 (though the Big Ten is sliding back towards the Big 2 & Little 8...not good for the conference), which is gaining in strength if the 2nd tier teams (everyone outside of USC) continue to roll. Hell, I don't even refer to WVU's conference as the Big Least anymore. I still have reservations about the ACC though. While I am definately an SEC fan, I don't consider myself an SEC homer (I'm sure some will disagree though). I root for 4 teams, in this order: Auburn, Ohio State, whoever's playing Bama, and whoever's playing Michigan.

But I dont neccesarily think two schools have to play eachother for a long time to have a rivalry

I disagree. You can't have a good rivalry without some established history.