• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

BBB - nowhere close

Page 11 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Fenixgoon said:
I'm curious about what made Manchin balk. All I've read had been secretive. "the staffers know what I'm talking about"
Click to expand...
I don't like his politics, but I don't blame Manchin at all. He's been remarkably consistent since summer that he's willing to get onboard with a skinny $1.5T bill. Biden talked him into bumping that to $1.75T, but Manchin is only willing to pass a bill without accounting tricks to conceal the true 10-year cost. CBO scored the CTC as $1.6T over ten years alone.

Obviously the part we all dislike is that his energy policy is going to block carbon emissions reduction, which will have disastrous consequences long-term. Some are accusing him of not bargaining in good faith over BBB, but I don't see that.

We have to understand that Manchin is only king for a year because Stacey Abrams engineered the two upsets for the Senate seats of Georgia. Realistically, we were going to lose one or both run-offs and McConnell would still be the obstructor in chief. And like Manchin said, if the Democrats had a better majority in the Senate, Manchin's willingness to deal or to obstruct would be irrelevant: "elect more liberals" is what Manchin said about passing progressive legislation.

Sadly we're fucked for the midterms, and then Joe Manchin will have no juice after that.
 
At this point I'd like to see Biden play hardball with Manchin. The place to attack him is the same place he's trying to defend: coal. Declare a climate emergency, block new leases for coal mining, create tariffs on coal imports, and pursue an EPA CO2 rule. Anything to attack carbon emissions, but especially coal, until Manchin agrees to - and votes for - a reasonable climate plan.
 
Ken g6 said:
At this point I'd like to see Biden play hardball with Manchin. The place to attack him is the same place he's trying to defend: coal. Declare a climate emergency, block new leases for coal mining, create tariffs on coal imports, and pursue an EPA CO2 rule. Anything to attack carbon emissions, but especially coal, until Manchin agrees to - and votes for - a reasonable climate plan.
Click to expand...
Could you pass something voting rights first? I think you should take anything climate out if it makes it pass on its own.. thing is if you lose 2022 2024 climate is fucked anyway. Voting rights and then have Biden go executive orders like Trump on steroids.
 
manly said:
I don't like his politics, but I don't blame Manchin at all. He's been remarkably consistent since summer that he's willing to get onboard with a skinny $1.5T bill. Biden talked him into bumping that to $1.75T, but Manchin is only willing to pass a bill without accounting tricks to conceal the true 10-year cost. CBO scored the CTC as $1.6T over ten years alone.
Click to expand...
I blame him. Everyone has negotiated and put themselves in a position they'd prefer not to be, that's politics. He's the only one that can't be bothered to extend himself into an uncomfortable position. Basically just sitting there with his arms crossed all pouty until he gets his way, it's fucking absurd.

Mind you, I also blame republicans. Obstinate contrarian pieces of shit.
 
cytg111 said:
Could you pass something voting rights first? I think you should take anything climate out if it makes it pass on its own.. thing is if you lose 2022 2024 climate is fucked anyway. Voting rights and then have Biden go executive orders like Trump on steroids.
Click to expand...
I see no path to voting rights. The country has kind of made our bed on that: Republicans appointed Republican justices who struck down southern voting rights. Eliminating the filibuster would lead to Republicans passing stuff like a national abortion ban later. And erasing climate legislation, and voting rights, and probably everything else democratic. 😱

If a climate bill gets passed soon, and the filibuster remains, it should stick for 10 years at least.

Edit: Except there's no filibuster on that. Hmm.
 
Ken g6 said:
At this point I'd like to see Biden play hardball with Manchin. The place to attack him is the same place he's trying to defend: coal. Declare a climate emergency, block new leases for coal mining, create tariffs on coal imports, and pursue an EPA CO2 rule. Anything to attack carbon emissions, but especially coal, until Manchin agrees to - and votes for - a reasonable climate plan.
Click to expand...
Joe Manchin is Senator of a state that went +39 for Trump in November. If you think you can shame him into lurching leftward, you're sadly mistaken. Manchin will only agree to what's personally acceptable to him, which are terrible climate policy and a small overall price tag. If you asked Manchin to leave the Democratic caucus, he'd do it.

For some perspective, the Biden administration has gotten a lot more done with 49+1 Senators than Obama did with 57.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1473656462819966987
 
Manchin will change his tune when he figures out that most of his constituents want a lot of what is in the bill, and that they are going to vote him out of office.
 
manly said:
Joe Manchin is Senator of a state that went +39 for Trump in November. If you think you can shame him into lurching leftward, you're sadly mistaken. Manchin will only agree to what's personally acceptable to him, which are terrible climate policy and a small overall price tag. If you asked Manchin to leave the Democratic caucus, he'd do it.

For some perspective, the Biden administration has gotten a lot more done with 49+1 Senators than Obama did with 57.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1473656462819966987
Click to expand...

Yeah, how things could have been different if they had beaten Susan Collins or some other marginal R and had a seat out two cushion.

I think too that Obama was too timid and squandered his big win and majority. The ACA was important, but more should have been done while the majority was there. Too much wishful thinking and wasted time chasing bipartisanship.
 
Bitek said:
Yeah, how things could have been different if they had beaten Susan Collins or some other marginal R and had a seat out two cushion.

I think too that Obama was too timid and squandered his big win and majority. The ACA was important, but more should have been done while the majority was there. Too much wishful thinking and wasted time chasing bipartisanship.
Click to expand...
I dont think Obama was timid in the slightest, but he (and others) were certainly too charitable in assuming the right was arguing in good faith.

If dems ever get that kind of leverage again their approach should be "get on board or GTFO the way", but they won't, because being a big tent party is inherently a disadvantage when requiring coalition building.
 
fskimospy said:
If they do vote him out of office it will be for someone who wants to do even less of this, not more.
Click to expand...

The actions of right-wing voters always seem to boil down to "I don't want it if someone I hate also gets it".

If Clinton had been president, these yokels would have cursed her as they went to their jobs in clean, well lit wind turbine or solar panel factories.

It's unfortunate that the structure of this country gives people like that way more of a say.
 
Ken g6 said:
I see no path to voting rights. The country has kind of made our bed on that: Republicans appointed Republican justices who struck down southern voting rights. Eliminating the filibuster would lead to Republicans passing stuff like a national abortion ban later. And erasing climate legislation, and voting rights, and probably everything else democratic. 😱

If a climate bill gets passed soon, and the filibuster remains, it should stick for 10 years at least.

Edit: Except there's no filibuster on that. Hmm.
Click to expand...

Then its game over is it not?
Without voting rights, its gonna turn Q 2022/2024.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

TRENDING THREADS

Back
Top