BBB - nowhere close

[MrSquished]

That’s not because people don’t like Biden’s policies but because they are tired of a lack of progress.

Talk is cheap.

Well they should also wake up and see he is not the holdup. They should get out and try to change the system, which at this point, is kind of hopeless. We are beholden to too many regressive states with oversized power in Congress and now the SC and with the EC. Just need to split the country in two.

Any smart Democrat would be asking for this. It's the only solution.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Well they should also wake up and see he is not the holdup. They should get out and try to change the system, which at this point, is kind of hopeless. We are beholden to too many regressive states with oversized power in Congress and now the SC and with the EC. Just need to split the country in two.

Any smart Democrat would be asking for this. It's the only solution.

if people were able to do that, republicans wouldn't hold office (until they actually did shit)

 

[MrSquished]

I mean Manchin doesn't think rich people do drugs? I bet some of the Murdochs are doing rails of coke off of some hookers right now as we speak

 

[MrSquished]

Rich old conservative white dudes are the greatest

 

[ivwshane]

Well they should also wake up and see he is not the holdup. They should get out and try to change the system, which at this point, is kind of hopeless. We are beholden to too many regressive states with oversized power in Congress and now the SC and with the EC. Just need to split the country in two.

Any smart Democrat would be asking for this. It's the only solution.

No, that’s not the only solution. In fact that wouldn’t fix anything other than to solidify those already in power.

The real solution, as I’ve mentioned several times on this forum, is to expand the number of house representatives to at least double if not more. On top of that the filibuster needs to go as it’s very anti democratic. Add in campaign finance reform and congress specifically saying that businesses are not people.

Those three things can help to restore our democracy and give people better representation.

 

[MrSquished]

No, that’s not the only solution. In fact that wouldn’t fix anything other than to solidify those already in power.

The real solution, as I’ve mentioned several times on this forum, is to expand the number of house representatives to at least double if not more. On top of that the filibuster needs to go as it’s very anti democratic. Add in campaign finance reform and congress specifically saying that businesses are not people.

Those three things can help to restore our democracy and give people better representation.

Yes I said we need to change the system, but that's never happening. Nobody is electing Democrats on complicated issues about the math behind the imbalance of the house, the Senate and the SC.

People need simple marketing.

Our values as a country have changed, so red states and blue states should amicably divorce.

Super simple. Even MTG grasps that concept.

 

[ivwshane]

Yes I said we need to change the system, but that's never happening. Nobody is electing Democrats on complicated issues about the math behind the imbalance of the house, the Senate and the SC.

People need simple marketing.

Our values as a country have changed, so red states and blue states should amicably divorce.

Super simple. Even MTG grasps that concept.

What’s simpler than running on getting more and better representation for every citizen?

 

[MrSquished]

What’s simpler than running on getting more and better representation for every citizen?

That requires math. Well this representative in Wyoming represents this many people while in Cali it's this. And the concept of the Senate is unbalanced because 20 something states equal the population of Cali but have 20x the senators and it's a concept from 1776 that is no longer up to date. It starts at getting really complicated for the average person. Plus it will easily be spun like a power grab by the traitor party and be accused of betraying our slave owning women have no rights slaves are 3/5 of a person infallible founding fathers

Easier to just say this experiment didn't work out, let's go out separate ways. See how easy that is to market?

 

[feralkid]

It's not over.

Watch this space.

Happy Holidays!

 

[sportage]

I think we all know what needs to be done.

 

[sportage]

Former Rep Gov of Ohio John Kasich was defending Manchin on CNN. He mentioned public opinion polls shows Manchin has 61% support. And coincidentally, 61% of WV are against BBB.

Yeah! Right!
Just wait until those West Virginians see their $300 child credit go bye bye. Then we'll see how that 61% holds up.
Forget about 61%, I'd bet that 99% of West Virginians have no clue what is in the BBB bill.
Any bets???

 

[MrSquished]

Former Rep Gov of Ohio John Kasich was defending Manchin on CNN. He mentioned public opinion polls shows Manchin has 61% support. And coincidentally, 61% of WV are against BBB.

He got the poll numbers completely wrong, or most likely lied like Republicans do. It's more like 60% support it

https://twitter.com/x/status/1472741513499222020

 

[Heartbreaker]

Manchin and Sinema are pieces of shit. The bill was completely redone for Manchin multiple times, and he still goes and talks shit about it on Fox News.

He really should just switch parties. But then he would just be voting with the crowd and not the centre of attention he seems to like being.

 

[fskimospy]

He really should just switch parties. But then he would just be voting with the crowd and not the centre of attention he seems to like being.

Why would he switch parties? You realize his voting record is FAR to the left of the average Republican, right?

Voteview | Congress View

View, map, and investigate congressional votes throughout history, classify legislators as liberal or conservatives.

voteview.com

See that upper right blue dot? That’s Manchin. Why would he join the Republicans?

 

[K1052]

See that upper right blue dot? That’s Manchin. Why would he join the Republicans?

I mean one of his big wants in all this is to roll back the Trump tax cuts which I really doubt any Republican wishes to do.

 

[Heartbreaker]

See that upper right blue dot? That’s Manchin. Why would he join the Republicans?

That graph is two axis. Outside of economic issues, he's more Conservative than just about about 90 percent of the Republicans.

On only the economic issues, he's only more Conservative than 100% of the Democrats, and less than 100% of the Republicans.

So one one axis he's heavily conservative and on the other he's about 50:50.

But that's only with ongoing relentless democratic party pressure. Swing that pressure the other way, and he seems like an easy fit in the GOP.

 

[ivwshane]

He could also run as an independent. Either way, his reasons for opposing something his constituents supports remain unfounded and down right stupid.

 

[fskimospy]

That graph is two axis. Outside of economic issues, he's more Conservative than just about about 90 percent of the Republicans.

On only the economic issues, he's only more Conservative than 100% of the Democrats, and less than 100% of the Republicans.

So one one axis he's heavily conservative and on the other he's about 50:50.

But that's only with ongoing relentless democratic party pressure. Swing that pressure the other way, and he seems like an easy fit in the GOP.

You are, uh, not reading that chart very well. First, the ‘other issues’ axis is a weird grab bag that isn’t particularly informative, which is why it’s often not plotted.

Second, the democrats and the republicans are not particularly far apart on the other issues axis, meaning the parties don’t disagree on them that much, so it’s not like because Manchin is to the right of republicans on that he’s suddenly WAY to the right of democrats. He’s similarly apart from both parties on that issue.

Third, on the economics issue while he might be to the right of the median democrat he is FAR to the left of the median Republican.

If you download the data you'll see the absolute value of the distance of Manchin's DW-NOMINATE score from the average senator of each party (counting the two independents as Democrats) for the current senate by dimension and party.

1st dimension
Democrats: 0.29
Republicans: 0.58

Second dimension
Democrats: 0.53
Republicans: 0.40

Sum of the two:
Democrats: 0.82
Republicans: 0.98

So long story short as to why he doesn't become a Republican is that he's ideologically considerably closer to Democrats than Republicans. Finally, if you think this is due to 'relentless pressure' by Democrats you should have figured out by now that Democrats have absolutely zero leverage over him, this is in marked contrast to if he became a Republican. Manchin knows he will win the Democratic primary, so Democratic attacks on him only help him in the general election. Manchin would get buried in a Republican primary in West Virginia.

 

[fskimospy]

I mean one of his big wants in all this is to roll back the Trump tax cuts which I really doubt any Republican wishes to do.

If you look at the deal Manchin supposedly offered to Biden it is something that essentially every Republican would light their hair on fire opposing. Yes, it sucks that Manchin is so far to the right of most Democrats on these issues. Unfortunately, that's life. If you somehow convinced him to become a Republican his votes would get MUCH WORSE, because he would have to worry about winning a Republican primary.

Calls for Manchin to become a Republican are just angry people in a fit of pique considering shooting their own foot off.

 

[MrSquished]

Even the coal miners of his state are urging him to reconsider. So most constituents want it, but Manchin is worried about what he will tell the people of West Virginia.

What horrific people these conservative leaning politicians are

Coal miners’ union urges Manchin to reconsider opposition to Biden plan

The United Mine Workers of America (UMWA), which represents West Virginia coal miners, urged Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) on Monday to revisit his opposition to President Biden’s Build Back Bet…

thehill.com

 

[dlerious]

He got the poll numbers completely wrong, or most likely lied like Republicans do. It's more like 60% support it

https://twitter.com/x/status/1472741513499222020

It's a Republican pollster, Mark Blankenship of MBE research. 702 repondents (36% D, 37% R, 27% I). If you want to see it:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/wvmetro-uploads-prod/2021/11/Polling-MBE.pdf

 

[UNCjigga]

I get it, you are disappointed. Im a flag waiving, freedom loving, American. And this country needs to remain free of socialism for as long as possible.

The dems are likely to try to go about this piecemeal, but for now its over for BBB.

What you call socialism is really the way this country worked from the industrial revolution all the way through until the early 80s. It's what sustained us from the Great Depression through a resounding victory in World War II.

Maybe someday you'll realize that Reagan and his ilk sold out the middle class so that the GOP could create a self-sustaining oligarchy. Maybe you'll even realize that they only screwed the working class/labor movement when demographics shifted and those workers were no longer white or Protestant. For some reason, "socialism" only works for the GOP if it's for white farmers, white ranchers, white coal miners in Appalachia, or white oil men working the rigs in the Gulf. Funny that.

 

[UNCjigga]

If you look at the deal Manchin supposedly offered to Biden it is something that essentially every Republican would light their hair on fire opposing. Yes, it sucks that Manchin is so far to the right of most Democrats on these issues. Unfortunately, that's life. If you somehow convinced him to become a Republican his votes would get MUCH WORSE, because he would have to worry about winning a Republican primary.

Calls for Manchin to become a Republican are just angry people in a fit of pique considering shooting their own foot off.

Saw this on social media--those people angry he hasn't switched parties yet should really be angry at Cal Cunnilingus-ham of NC and Sara Gilded-one of ME--2 races that Dems absolutely should have won, and would have, had the candidates not been caught in sexting scandals or run tone-deaf campaigns.

Two more wins and Manchin/Sinema would be irrelevant.

 

[fskimospy]

Saw this on social media--those people angry he hasn't switched parties yet should really be angry at Cal Cunnilingus-ham of NC and Sara Gilded-one of ME--2 races that Dems absolutely should have won, and would have, had the candidates not been caught in sexting scandals or run tone-deaf campaigns.

Two more wins and Manchin/Sinema would be irrelevant.

This, 100%. Manchin won in a goddamned Trump +38 state and these clowns can't win in states Biden won.

As things stand today Manchin is by far the most valuable senator to the Democrats. Imagine how mad we would be if a Democratic senator lost to a Republican in California, then add 8 more points on top of that and that's the magnitude of what Manchin overcame.

 

[UNCjigga]

This, 100%. Manchin won in a goddamned Trump +38 state and these clowns can't win in states Biden won.

As things stand today Manchin is by far the most valuable senator to the Democrats. Imagine how mad we would be if a Democratic senator lost to a Republican in California, then add 8 more points on top of that and that's the magnitude of what Manchin overcame.

Yup. Meanwhile, the Furrowed Brow wins with 9 points in a state Biden carried after being outspent 2 to 1.

And speaking of Cal--I'm not sure whether people have noticed, but this time around the Safe White Male candidate has bowed out and the Progressive Black Female is getting the big money behind her. Pleasantly surprised and happy to see NC Dems taking a different approach.

Jackson bows out of Democratic Senate primary in North Carolina, largely clearing field for Beasley | CNN Politics

North Carolina state Sen. Jeff Jackson on Thursday bowed out of the race to be the Tar Heel state's next US senator, largely clearing the Democratic primary field for former state Supreme Court chief justice Cheri Beasley.

www.cnn.com