Baltimore’s Francis Scott Key Bridge collapsed after being hit by a cargo boat.

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hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,424
10,317
136
In the late 80s, I worked at the USS/Posco steel mill in Pittsburg, CA. We installed a brand-new overhead crane in a building...it was built by Hyundai Heavy Industries...nice crane, but it just never worked quite right. Electrical problems that couldn't be solved 100%...blew breakers at the most inopportune times...like under a critical load, always one wheel on the bridge that never quite touched the rail until it was heavily loaded...but travelling with that heavy load always put a strain on the electric motors...and when you least expected it...that could blow breakers. The mill's electrical crews worked on it for the entire year I ran it...never did quite get it right.
I don't know who the contractor was for the new Explosive Handling Wharf (EHF) at the Bangor Sub Base but they installed the over head crane for moving missiles, among other items, in backwards. That was probably part of the massive delay in getting it operational. They barely started using it before I retired.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,526
9,899
136
Navy ships have an aft steering compartment that's always manned in the event of loss of bridge control. I wasn't in engineering, but I assume every ship also has enough backup propulsion to maintain course.
Doesn't appear to be the case here. Sounds like it a direct shaft driven screw and only one screw.

I'm not an expert here, at all, but it seems like the crabbing boats on the deadliest catch have more propulsion redundancy on them than this ship had.
 
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Nov 17, 2019
10,767
6,453
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This is multiple incidents in recent years with these things (Suez Canal anyone?)

It seems the container ship companies would over engineer to prevent failures and breakdowns given the fact that the sole purpose of these things is to make money. You would think they'd want to be sure they make money and not cost money in incidents.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,672
13,418
146
They are doing exothermic cutting.

Saw this in person early in my career. The company I worked for was doing a refurb of a paper mill and they had to cut out an old elevated tank. They supported it with a 800ton crane while the guys took the magnesium burning bars and cut through the concrete and steel supports.

Exothermic cutting looks like a light saber. It burns through just about anything at least until the bar is consumed.
 
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dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,591
3,425
136
Doesn't appear to be the case here. Sounds like it a direct shaft driven screw and only one screw.

I'm not an expert here, at all, but it seems like the crabbing boats on the deadliest catch have more propulsion redundancy on them than this ship had.

Obviously any large commercial ship operating in US waters needs to have redundant systems. Even a battery powered backup for the rudder and screw would have done the trick here. I wonder if this is something the DOT can change by rule or if Congress needs to act?
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,424
10,317
136
Saw this in person early in my career. The company I worked for was doing a refurb of a paper mill and they had to cut out an old elevated tank. They supported it with a 800ton crane while the guys took the magnesium burning bars and cut through the concrete and steel supports.

Exothermic cutting looks like a light saber. It burns through just about anything at least until the bar is consumed.
They are also loud.
 
Dec 10, 2005
24,063
6,861
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Obviously any large commercial ship operating in US waters needs to have redundant systems. Even a battery powered backup for the rudder and screw would have done the trick here. I wonder if this is something the DOT can change by rule or if Congress needs to act?
As long as flags of convenience can be used to avoid major regulations, I'm not sure what passing a rule would do, beyond increasing costs of US flagged vessels.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
94,976
15,111
126
This is multiple incidents in recent years with these things (Suez Canal anyone?)

It seems the container ship companies would over engineer to prevent failures and breakdowns given the fact that the sole purpose of these things is to make money. You would think they'd want to be sure they make money and not cost money in incidents.
There are 50k plus containerships on the high sea, so accidents will happen.

Harbour pilot is to blame for this one

 
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dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,591
3,425
136
As long as flags of convenience can be used to avoid major regulations, I'm not sure what passing a rule would do, beyond increasing costs of US flagged vessels.

I wasn't aware of that. I assumed the government could impose safety standards on any commercial vehicle (airplane, ship etc) operating in its territory.
 

HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,046
27,781
136
Dec 10, 2005
24,063
6,861
136
I wasn't aware of that. I assumed the government could impose safety standards on any commercial vehicle (airplane, ship etc) operating in its territory.
Maybe they can, but I get the impression that flags of convenience are used to avoid all sorts of (real or imaginary) burdensome regulations and laws.
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,718
877
126
Maryland Gov tells people to stop all the nonsense blaming the bridge collapse on minorities. Saw him interviewed on Fox News Sunday. I wish he had called Fox out on the air since they are some of the ones spreading those DEI conspiracies. Missed a golden opportunity to fight back against misinformation.

What's DEI?

For reusing the steel. It would cost more to recertify the steel than to just get new steel. You can't just se steel on a bridge without knowing its quality. The bridge steel needs to scrapped and reformed.
 
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
94,976
15,111
126
What's DEI?

For reusing the steel. It would cost more to recertify the steel than to just get new steel. You can't just se steel on a bridge without knowing its quality. The bridge steel needs to scrapped and reformed.
Diversity Equality Inclusion. All the things Fox doesn't like.
 
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iRONic

Diamond Member
Jan 28, 2006
6,857
2,142
136
That might be the crane out of Mexico that later came through the canal and up to Seattle. It was commissioned in 1969 and at 1000 tons, the biggest thing going.
When it got to Seattle it had a helipad like that, but it is long gone in remodeling. I remember it has a pretty good machine shop onboard.
How big of a crane barge are you if your own barge tender has a tugboat of its own!?!? HFS.

The divers that came to x-ray the platform legs annually said that production side was only in 260 feet of water.

I've been out of that business for quite a long time but I wonder if those large vessels are still working in the North Sea doing oil & NG exploration.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,004
4,760
146

It's now called the Pacific lifter, and it sits on 122 m by 63 m. Barge.
That's how big!
When I saw it it had 100 ton crane on the deck that was pimping for it.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,046
27,781
136
What's DEI?

For reusing the steel. It would cost more to recertify the steel than to just get new steel. You can't just se steel on a bridge without knowing its quality. The bridge steel needs to scrapped and reformed.
Right wingers are calling the Mayor of Baltimore and Gov of Maryland DEI hires. It's the new n-word for them since saying it in public is still fairly unpopular with most people. Forgetting for a moment the Mayor won an election
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,522
6,953
136
Maryland Gov tells people to stop all the nonsense blaming the bridge collapse on minorities. Saw him interviewed on Fox News Sunday. I wish he had called Fox out on the air since they are some of the ones spreading those DEI conspiracies. Missed a golden opportunity to fight back against misinformation.


Looks like what's happening inside the conservative bubble has gone full-time racist, Christian nationalist and an abuse of the blame blame blame game because they have nothing else to offer the working class folks of America. They have the HOR to prove what they can do for the commoners of the nation, for our allies abroad and for promoting a working House that produces real positive results via bipartisan cooperation yet they've been ordered by Trump to wreck everything in sight to pave the way for his Walk on Water reentry into the White House.

The House Freedom Caucus still have the chance to right their wrongs but that cabal of rabble rousing obstructionists have chosen to pursue a strategy that produces destructive rather than constructive results with the blessing of the folks who voted to put these political saboteurs right where they could do the most damage and chose the most dangerous rapist racist narcissist despot to manage it all.

Bye bye America. It was nice while it lasted, but there's over 70 million Americans who think it's better to install leaders that want to create a gov't similar to Russia's, China's and North Korea's for the singular reason of winning a losing battle if it were fought the traditional democratically run way.
 
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feralkid

Lifer
Jan 28, 2002
16,472
4,543
136
Looks like what's happening inside the conservative bubble has gone full-time racist, Christian nationalist and an abuse of the blame blame blame game because they have nothing else to offer the working class folks of America. They have the HOR to prove what they can do for the commoners of the nation, for our allies abroad and for promoting a working House that produces real positive results via bipartisan cooperation yet they've been ordered by Trump to wreck everything in sight to pave the way for his Walk on Water reentry into the White House.

The House Freedom Caucus still have the chance to right their wrongs but that cabal of rabble rousing obstructionists have chosen to pursue a strategy that produces destructive rather than constructive results with the blessing of the folks who voted to put these political saboteurs right where they could do the most damage and chose the most dangerous rapist racist narcissist despot to manage it all.

Bye bye America. It was nice while it lasted, but there's over 70 million Americans who think it's better to install leaders that want to create a gov't similar to Russia's, China's and North Korea's for the singular reason of winning a losing battle if it were fought the traditional democratically run way.
You sound all defeated...buck up, fella!

Don't give up the fight...these assholes will not destroy our country unless we allow it.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,088
12,180
146
Meh, build a tunnel for the container ships to pass under the sound. It would be expensive but the water slide going into the tunnel would be something for the crews to look forward to.
So like... A waterfall? That could be fun, bonus if everyone is in a barrel before they go over.
 
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