Bailout bill failing in House

[brandonb]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: jbourne77


You totally glossed over a question someone else posed to you: What happens when 95% of all potential car buyers cannot get loans? Mortgagees? Business expansion? Student loans?

I don't think people really understand the potential impact here.

I guess the banks will have to learn to adapt, like everybody else.

What type of job do you have?

I'm a software engineer at a company that does multiple things:

call center services
bill collection
billing services
and legal needs in said industries.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Craig234
What has me concerned right now is the lack of planning I see by either party for the financial system.

I'm wondering if we may be heading to the worst combination - financial problems from the crash of the system, *and* even further consolodiation as the few by the others.

Goldman Sachs the last one standing, Citi and J. P. Morgan acquiring other banks, can we see an even higher concentration of power in Wall Street as the few bigger players are in even more of a monopolistic position to be 'too big to let go out of business' and able to dictate terms?

I'm not seeing an FDR figure who has much of a plan for how to fix both the need for the government to assist with liquidity and to address the systemic issues. Just chaos.

Thats because the most powerful Democrat is INCOMPETENT at her job...

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: brandonb

Intellectually challenged? I believe thats you, not me. But thanks for the comment anyhow. Anyone who has to put down another to make their point is the one who is intellectually challenged.

Do you think because this bailout didn't occur that banks will stop functioning? So businesses won't have business accounts anymore? Do you think personal checking accounts for the common man is suddenly going to dry up?

The only thing this bailout was for was companies who needed to fail because they are obviously too intellectually challenged to run their businesses correctly, or BANKED on the idea of it failing. In other words, they took a huge risk hoping for huge rewards, and it backfired. Now I'm the one who has to pay? No way. Thats their risk they failed, they should close shop. Let other companies who understand good business stay afloat.

Where have you been? How many big banks have already failed? I think if you look around you already have your answer.

Speaking of that, Wachovia just collapsed.

I was assured banks wont collapse. What happened??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

National City is getting pounded now too.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: jbourne77


You totally glossed over a question someone else posed to you: What happens when 95% of all potential car buyers cannot get loans? Mortgagees? Business expansion? Student loans?

I don't think people really understand the potential impact here.

I guess the banks will have to learn to adapt, like everybody else.

What type of job do you have?

I'm a software engineer at a company that does multiple things:

call center services
bill collection
billing services
and legal needs in said industries.

So you don't think this will affect you?

 

[IronWing]

The House website is snowed under at the moment. Anyone have link to the roll call?

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

Again the (R) can't use Pelosi as a legitimate excuse but Pelosi has a long history of opening her big mouth at the wrong time. Everytime I freaking hear her speak, she is blaming (R)s for something or other. And while they deserve alot of blame for alot of things, there is a time and place.

She is an idiot

 

[SP33Demon]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Yes, I know how it works. And remind me to put you on the list of idiots who don't understand that if the banks didn't have the money to loan, they would suspend ALL loans. WTF is wrong with people who think every bank in every state in this country has run out of capital??

https://www.wellsfargo.com/per...plx=1221-5742-3408-168">Wow, I can apply for a loan, but they ran out of capital!</a> Come talk to me when a bank like Wells or BoA or Citi have suspended their loans for small business. Until then, stfu about how capital works, how banks have all run out of money, and how we're not going to get paid tomorrow. K?

I know of 3-4 large financing facilities for companies that were not renewed by Citi, about $1BN in financing. Granted, to large companies. However, small businesses aren't in a vacuum and this will affect them.

Even if they don't suspend, they'll curtail, massively, which will squeeze the country. Do you even know how the Great Depression progressed?

Nobody is saying that lending hasn't been curtailed/tightened. And please tell us how another Great Depression will occur, this should be interesting.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: GTKeeper
I wonder how many posters in this thread have actual jobs and how many are still living at home or are still in school.


When mommy and daddy come home because there is no more paycheck in 6 months, come and revisit your idiotic posts on this thread.

Not to mention those of us watching our 401K's evaporate on a daily basis.

Even if you aren't working, you have a stake in this and shouldn't be doing any cheerleading for economic collapse. It WILL and CAN affect every single one of us.

Most of us regardless of our leanings realize that this is something that has to be done, regardless of how personally insulting we may consider it to be.

Now I don't really know who to blame for not getting the bill passed, if House R's can't stomach hearing that W. and their fellow R's in congress brought this about, and want to engage in a pissing contest because their feelings are hurt, well fuck them.

Maybe Pelosi should have kept her mouth shut, but these crocodile tears really make me sick.

I don't have a source for this but apparently some House R's were trying to lower or eliminate capital gains taxes as part of this bill, or so I heard this morning. If that's true, those fucks need to be chained up in a wine cellar Cask of Amontillado style.

 

[alchemize]

Thank heavens I voted D in 2006 as I was told to do, now that the Dems have majorities in both houses and are willing to introduce and pass the correct legislation to address the problem.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Rahm Emannuel is no Tom Delay

Just let it all burn I still say.

Rahm is a son of a bitch who knows how to get shit done. Hes fourth in terms of Power. Hes the chairmen of the Cacucus. He doesnt have the power the three above him does. His job is mainly focused on policy development and election strategy. If he was Speaker I doubt this wouldve happened.

Pelosi has the bloody pulpit. Hoyer is the Whip. They are the ones to blame for the large chuck of Dems voting nay.

Rahm will be the next Speaker of the House.

Do you want members of congress voting how they think is right, or being forced to vote how the leadership wants them to vote, sort of defeatng the point of democracy?

The following are quotes from my Democratic Congressman and from a Republican, who each oppose the bill. How do you suggest the leadership get them to vote yes?

Democratic Rep. Pete Stark of Fremont, a former banker, said he probably will not support it, calling dire warnings of a credit meltdown "grossly overrated."

"I think we are being railroaded in the same manner we were to vote for Iraq," Stark said. "The banks of the Bay Area are in good shape, and they're bailing out Wall Street for $700 billion. It's irresponsible and reckless."

Stark said he has been working to get a third of that sum for universal health care, and that with $15 billion, all Californians could have health insurance.

He attributed at least part of the credit tightening that businesses and consumers are feeling now to the recession that economists believe has begun and the unwinding of easy credit that fed the housing bubble.

"I think people will have more trouble getting a mortgage," Stark said. "Auto dealers are going to have more trouble shedding their inventory, which isn't worth much anyway if it's all SUVs. If we found the whole Bay Area seeing the kinds of foreclosures, say that they have in Stockton, we'd probably react to that. But it's not been that way in Fremont and it's not been that way in Burlingame, or San Francisco. I think that $700 billion would hurt the value of the dollar, which would raise oil prices even further, and probably increase inflation. I think we're rushing this through too quickly."

Rep. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., said conservatives have been burned by President Bush before on things such as the costly Medicare drug benefit and are in no mood to swallow such a large government intervention in the economy.

"This thing, 'We've got to get this done tomorrow, we can't deviate, it has to be exactly like this,' there were a lot of eyes rolling around the room, saying, 'We've heard this before,' " Flake said.

 

[Stuxnet]

I predict a Daschle-like exit by Pelosi in November.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: freegeeks
this problem is getting to big and imho the Fed, ECB and Japanese central bank (and maybe other big central banks) should sit together with the respective govt. and make a comprehensive plan to get us out of this mess. Lack of liquidity is bringing down otherwise profitable banks. I'm talking about a shock and awe global trillion dollar plan. Doing nothing is not an option and I have the impression that lots of people don't realize how desperate the situation is. Desperate situations calls for drastic action

As I put in my sig, I think $700b is pissing on a bonfire. I agree that if they are serious about it--and this kind of approach actually can work--they'll need more, into the trillions certainly.

Unfortunately, to go from $100 up to $700b it IS the shock and awe.

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: jbourne77
I predict a Daschle-like exit by Pelosi in November.

I can't stand Pelosi. The Dems need one of the Blue Dogs to be Speaker to actually get shit done.

 

[NFS4]

HOLY SHIT at Barney Frank. BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: jbourne77
What exactly did Pelosi say? I reserve my comments on R vs D until I hear exactly what happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey3ZlsmIkz4

:Q

She should be hanged and quartered for that kind of grandstanding. Again, the R's hands aren't clean by any stretch of the imagination, but WTF!!!

and that is what disgust me. she takes something that NEEDS to pass and grandstands.

There is a reason why congress has a 14% approvel. now? bet its around 6%

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Craig234
What has me concerned right now is the lack of planning I see by either party for the financial system.

I'm wondering if we may be heading to the worst combination - financial problems from the crash of the system, *and* even further consolodiation as the few by the others.

Goldman Sachs the last one standing, Citi and J. P. Morgan acquiring other banks, can we see an even higher concentration of power in Wall Street as the few bigger players are in even more of a monopolistic position to be 'too big to let go out of business' and able to dictate terms?

I'm not seeing an FDR figure who has much of a plan for how to fix both the need for the government to assist with liquidity and to address the systemic issues. Just chaos.

Thats because the most powerful Democrat is INCOMPETENT at her job...

I disagree. She has got a lot of good done. I've wanted her replaced for her caving in to Bush too much, but I recognize she has got a lot done that's blocked by the Senate.

You are quick to blame according to your political orientation, not from what I'm seeing based on the facts.

Maybe with the hundreds-to-one public opposition to this bill a month before every member of Congress is up for election, she did great making the vote so close?

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Stoneburner
Rahm Emannuel is no Tom Delay

Just let it all burn I still say.

Rahm is a son of a bitch who knows how to get shit done. Hes fourth in terms of Power. Hes the chairmen of the Cacucus. He doesnt have the power the three above him does. His job is mainly focused on policy development and election strategy. If he was Speaker I doubt this wouldve happened.

Pelosi has the bloody pulpit. Hoyer is the Whip. They are the ones to blame for the large chuck of Dems voting nay.

Rahm will be the next Speaker of the House.

Do you want members of congress voting how they think is right, or being forced to vote how the leadership wants them to vote, sort of defeatng the point of democracy?

The following are quotes from my Democratic Congressman and from a Republican, who each oppose the bill. How do you suggest the leadership get them to vote yes?

Democratic Rep. Pete Stark of Fremont, a former banker, said he probably will not support it, calling dire warnings of a credit meltdown "grossly overrated."

"I think we are being railroaded in the same manner we were to vote for Iraq," Stark said. "The banks of the Bay Area are in good shape, and they're bailing out Wall Street for $700 billion. It's irresponsible and reckless."

Stark said he has been working to get a third of that sum for universal health care, and that with $15 billion, all Californians could have health insurance.

He attributed at least part of the credit tightening that businesses and consumers are feeling now to the recession that economists believe has begun and the unwinding of easy credit that fed the housing bubble.

"I think people will have more trouble getting a mortgage," Stark said. "Auto dealers are going to have more trouble shedding their inventory, which isn't worth much anyway if it's all SUVs. If we found the whole Bay Area seeing the kinds of foreclosures, say that they have in Stockton, we'd probably react to that. But it's not been that way in Fremont and it's not been that way in Burlingame, or San Francisco. I think that $700 billion would hurt the value of the dollar, which would raise oil prices even further, and probably increase inflation. I think we're rushing this through too quickly."

Rep. Jeff Flake, R-Ariz., said conservatives have been burned by President Bush before on things such as the costly Medicare drug benefit and are in no mood to swallow such a large government intervention in the economy.

"This thing, 'We've got to get this done tomorrow, we can't deviate, it has to be exactly like this,' there were a lot of eyes rolling around the room, saying, 'We've heard this before,' " Flake said.

To many people dont understand how the House works. Thats why there is this thing called bargining. For the House to work and get things done, it requires the majority party to vote in lock step. To get this accomplished leadership offers carrots to its lower ranking members.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: NFS4
HOLY SHIT at Bernie Frank. BURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRN

what? i missed it

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: Wreckem

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Look, to blame this on Pelosi is ridiculous, it failed not because of her.

However, I watched her speech and she should be ashamed of herself. I am as big a critic as anybody on how fvcking tits-up-useless this government has been, particularly under Bush, but her ranting about him and his party like a damned idiot is akin to telling somebody not to ride a motorbike, they do it anyway, lose an arm, and as they are being dragged off in the ambulance you smirk and say "Told you so.". It's infuriatingly puerile and 100% counter-productive. What did she gain by saying it? That lack of self-control I have not seen from anybody near her stature in Washington. Even the target of her scorn, mr sh*ts for brains himself has more couth and class.

You dont understand House politics. If a bill fails because a significant number of the controlling party goes against the party, it is ALWAYS the Speakers fault.

I'd say you're the one who doesn't understand, as I said in the previous post, you have members up for election in a month with *huge* public opposition to this.

 

[brandonb]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: jbourne77


You totally glossed over a question someone else posed to you: What happens when 95% of all potential car buyers cannot get loans? Mortgagees? Business expansion? Student loans?

I don't think people really understand the potential impact here.

I guess the banks will have to learn to adapt, like everybody else.

What type of job do you have?

I'm a software engineer at a company that does multiple things:

call center services
bill collection
billing services
and legal needs in said industries.

So you don't think this will affect you?

Why would it? The sky isn't falling. A few shady banks closed that banked on sub prime loans and got bit in the ass. Thats what happens when you lend to people who have bad credit. The credit card companies BANK on the idea that people don't pay their bills, they write it off on taxes, and they still collect money by harrassing said person for 15 years and eventually get their money back anyhow with a small commission to the bill collecting company. Why is it any different with mortgages and these banks? =)

 

[hellokeith]

133 house republicans and 99 house democrats voted against the bailout bill. Silly and uninformed partisanship to blame one party.

While I don't want to see a depression, I share the general suspicion that most of America has about the government socializing wall street with taxpayer money.

 

[bl4ckfl4g]

Lol Bernie Frank basically said this. Paraphrased.

Republicans decided that si nce their feelings got hurt, they'll punish the country.

Bernie said, give me the names of the 12 people and I will go talk uncharacteristically nice about them so they will feel better and vote yes.

 

[ElFenix]

the 'conservative' republicans are standing up for 'conservative' principles after having done no such thing for a decade, and the 'liberal' democrats are doing their best impression of nero fiddling while rome was burning. lloyd doggett was, frankly, crowing about it.

 

[ohnoes]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Nobody is saying that lending hasn't been curtailed/tightened. And please tell us how another Great Depression will occur, this should be interesting.

Then you admit that there is a _real_ chance of businesses not being able to make payroll/expenses, which was your original point of contention.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: jbourne77


You totally glossed over a question someone else posed to you: What happens when 95% of all potential car buyers cannot get loans? Mortgagees? Business expansion? Student loans?

I don't think people really understand the potential impact here.

I guess the banks will have to learn to adapt, like everybody else.

What type of job do you have?

I'm a software engineer at a company that does multiple things:

call center services
bill collection
billing services
and legal needs in said industries.

So you don't think this will affect you?

Why would it? The sky isn't falling. A few shady banks closed that banked on sub prime loans and got bit in the ass. Thats what happens when you lend to people who have bad credit. The credit card companies BANK on the idea that people don't pay their bills, they write it off on taxes, and they still collect money by harrassing said person for 15 years and eventually get their money back anyhow with a small commission to the bill collecting company. Why is it any different with mortgages and these banks? =)

You are being facetious, right?