Bailout bill failing in House

[brandonb]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: DrewSG3
For the first time I'm proud of my Congress

Because they just hurt the economy tremendously?

You're economy, not mine. The people (bankers) who screwed over so many common American's with their death grips (mortgages) are now having to suck it up. Great!

LOL. Yeah, where do you think common America gets money?

Their paychecks.

ROFL. This is what I am talking about.

How can we possibly survive as a country with idiots like this around?

For the intellectually challenged, where do companies get their paychecks?

Intellectually challenged? I believe thats you, not me. But thanks for the comment anyhow. Anyone who has to put down another to make their point is the one who is intellectually challenged.

Do you think because this bailout didn't occur that banks will stop functioning? So businesses won't have business accounts anymore? Do you think personal checking accounts for the common man is suddenly going to dry up?

The only thing this bailout was for was companies who needed to fail because they are obviously too intellectually challenged to run their businesses correctly, or BANKED on the idea of it failing. In other words, they took a huge risk hoping for huge rewards, and it backfired. Now I'm the one who has to pay? No way. Thats their risk they failed, they should close shop. Let other companies who understand good business stay afloat.

 

[Stuxnet]

What exactly did Pelosi say? I reserve my comments on R vs D until I hear exactly what happened.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: OptimisTech

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: OptimisTech
Oh, and for those of you on monthly pay cycles, there is a REAL chance you will not get a check tomorrow.

:roll: What scare tactic email did you buy into?

Read a book. 90% of businesses use short-term loans to meet payroll every month. If the credit markets seize (which they almost surely will now.) they won't be getting those loans. If you were lucky enough to have payroll processed already, you'll get paid. If not, be ready. Did you really think you were invulnerable to this and you could ignore it?

Then those businesses can get a loan from Bank of Am, Chase, Citi, Wells, or any other bank that will be fine. What's that you say? Their credit rating sucks? Too bad.

Fool, they won't be lending. NOBODY is lending. Are you too dense to understand that? Their capital base is so depleated that they are only floating along too.

What the hell are you talking about? Since when can't a small business get a loan from any of those companies? Put up or shut up.

I think this is about the dumbest reply I have heard in quite some time.......


Let me explain in idiot terms how this works. Let's look at Wachovia for example....

They offer tons of small business loans right? right (making it easier for you here)
They also BORROW money from other financial instituations on a short term basis.... (trust me here)
The amount of money they are dolling out on a DAILY basis to PAY for these short term loans is A LOT OF MONEY

Now, this leaves them with little capital to lend to ANYONE because they themselves are so leveraged that most of their capital is spent administering their own borrowings.

Now, since the amount of new money coming into wachovia (direct deposits, loan / mortgage products etc) is not a whole lot, in fact its not even coming in fast enough to cover Wachovia's own borrowing obligations. What does that do to any spare money that they do get?

Thats RIGHT! They keep it to keep themselves AFLOAT. And how much money is left to lend to all these 'small businesses' of yours? NONE

Get it now?

The problem with your idea is most SB use credit lines for payrolls. Credit Lines can't be pulled "overnight" unless the terms are broken. What this means is you will get a paycheck tommorow, but like someone else said, in a year you might not, since than the credit line has to renegotiated.

You are still thinking "short" term which is what got us into this mess in the first place. As long as the banks don't fail in a cascade type of style the Avergae Joe will get there paycheck unless the government gives the banks power to make all contracts null and void. Which kinda fucks them for mortgage contracts. Will be interesting to see what happens to businesses over the next few months.


On a side note

I think this bill should have passed with the government trying to make a proft off it eventually, as well as no "earmarks" type shit on it. Bush and Pelosi are trying to make this bill a partisan hack job which I think is why it failed. Hopefully this not only marks one change, (The change in pushing for credit for low income fucks who can't afford it) but also a change in partisan being more important than American issues.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Looks like GOP is on a suicide course.

this couldn't have failed without significant D defections, though.

 

[mshan]

Say the global credit markets totally freeze up overnight.

Have we passed some magic point of no return where Congress can't convene an emergency session tomorrow or even this evening and vote again on that bill?

Say people got to their atm tomorrow and no money comes out. If we start to get mild rioting and attempts at runs on physical banks, can't the president go on tv, tell everyone to calm down, and that bill will now pass. Politicians now have cover to do so because they voted against it because their constituents said not to vote for it.

And like I said previously, if we were really on the brink of Armageddon, it would have passed.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: OptimisTech

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: OptimisTech
Oh, and for those of you on monthly pay cycles, there is a REAL chance you will not get a check tomorrow.

:roll: What scare tactic email did you buy into?

Read a book. 90% of businesses use short-term loans to meet payroll every month. If the credit markets seize (which they almost surely will now.) they won't be getting those loans. If you were lucky enough to have payroll processed already, you'll get paid. If not, be ready. Did you really think you were invulnerable to this and you could ignore it?

Then those businesses can get a loan from Bank of Am, Chase, Citi, Wells, or any other bank that will be fine. What's that you say? Their credit rating sucks? Too bad.

Fool, they won't be lending. NOBODY is lending. Are you too dense to understand that? Their capital base is so depleated that they are only floating along too.

What the hell are you talking about? Since when can't a small business get a loan from any of those companies? Put up or shut up.

http://www.godlikeproductions....rum1/message613545/pg1

If McDonald's is having a hard time securing enough credit. How do you think his small time competitor across the street is doing?

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon
Yes, I know how it works. And remind me to put you on the list of idiots who don't understand that if the banks didn't have the money to loan, they would suspend ALL loans. WTF is wrong with people who think every bank in every state in this country has run out of capital??

https://www.wellsfargo.com/per...plx=1221-5742-3408-168">Wow, I can apply for a loan, but they ran out of capital!</a> Come talk to me when a bank like Wells or BoA or Citi have suspended their loans for small business. Until then, stfu about how capital works, how banks have all run out of money, and how we're not going to get paid tomorrow. K?

I know of 3-4 large financing facilities for companies that were not renewed by Citi, about $1BN in financing. Granted, to large companies. However, small businesses aren't in a vacuum and this will affect them.

Even if they don't suspend, they'll curtail, massively, which will squeeze the country. Do you even know how the Great Depression progressed?

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: DrewSG3
For the first time I'm proud of my Congress

Because they just hurt the economy tremendously?

You're economy, not mine. The people (bankers) who screwed over so many common American's with their death grips (mortgages) are now having to suck it up. Great!

LOL. Yeah, where do you think common America gets money?

Their paychecks.

ROFL. This is what I am talking about.

How can we possibly survive as a country with idiots like this around?

For the intellectually challenged, where do companies get their paychecks?

Intellectually challenged? I believe thats you, not me. But thanks for the comment anyhow. Anyone who has to put down another to make their point is the one who is intellectually challenged.

Do you think because this bailout didn't occur that banks will stop functioning? So businesses won't have business accounts anymore? Do you think personal checking accounts for the common man is suddenly going to dry up?

The only thing this bailout was for was companies who needed to fail because they are obviously too intellectually challenged to run their businesses correctly, or BANKED on the idea of it failing. In other words, they took a huge risk hoping for huge rewards, and it backfired. Now I'm the one who has to pay? No way. Thats their risk they failed, they should close shop. Let other companies who understand good business stay afloat.

You totally glossed over a question someone else posed to you: What happens when 95% of all potential car buyers cannot get loans? Mortgagees? Business expansion? Student loans?

I don't think people really understand the potential impact here.

 

[GTKeeper]

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: OptimisTech

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: OptimisTech
Oh, and for those of you on monthly pay cycles, there is a REAL chance you will not get a check tomorrow.

:roll: What scare tactic email did you buy into?

Read a book. 90% of businesses use short-term loans to meet payroll every month. If the credit markets seize (which they almost surely will now.) they won't be getting those loans. If you were lucky enough to have payroll processed already, you'll get paid. If not, be ready. Did you really think you were invulnerable to this and you could ignore it?

Then those businesses can get a loan from Bank of Am, Chase, Citi, Wells, or any other bank that will be fine. What's that you say? Their credit rating sucks? Too bad.

Fool, they won't be lending. NOBODY is lending. Are you too dense to understand that? Their capital base is so depleated that they are only floating along too.

What the hell are you talking about? Since when can't a small business get a loan from any of those companies? Put up or shut up.

I think this is about the dumbest reply I have heard in quite some time.......


Let me explain in idiot terms how this works. Let's look at Wachovia for example....

They offer tons of small business loans right? right (making it easier for you here)
They also BORROW money from other financial instituations on a short term basis.... (trust me here)
The amount of money they are dolling out on a DAILY basis to PAY for these short term loans is A LOT OF MONEY

Now, this leaves them with little capital to lend to ANYONE because they themselves are so leveraged that most of their capital is spent administering their own borrowings.

Now, since the amount of new money coming into wachovia (direct deposits, loan / mortgage products etc) is not a whole lot, in fact its not even coming in fast enough to cover Wachovia's own borrowing obligations. What does that do to any spare money that they do get?

Thats RIGHT! They keep it to keep themselves AFLOAT. And how much money is left to lend to all these 'small businesses' of yours? NONE

Get it now?

Yes, I know how it works. And remind me to put you on the list of idiots who don't understand that if the banks didn't have the money to loan, they would suspend ALL loans. WTF is wrong with people who think every bank in every state in this country has run out of capital??

https://www.wellsfargo.com/per...plx=1221-5742-3408-168">Wow, I can apply for a loan, but they ran out of capital!</a> Come talk to me when a bank like Wells or BoA or Citi have suspended their loans for small business. Until then, stfu about how capital works, how banks have all run out of money, and how we're not going to get paid tomorrow. K?

Obviously not every bank will just run out of capital. You are acting like 'nothing will happen' if we don't pass the bailout. Talk to me in a year.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: loki8481
thank god for the bold leadership our presidential candidates have shown on this.

bastard, you broke my sarcasm meter

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: jbourne77
What exactly did Pelosi say? I reserve my comments on R vs D until I hear exactly what happened.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey3ZlsmIkz4

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: OptimisTech

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: OptimisTech
Oh, and for those of you on monthly pay cycles, there is a REAL chance you will not get a check tomorrow.

:roll: What scare tactic email did you buy into?

Read a book. 90% of businesses use short-term loans to meet payroll every month. If the credit markets seize (which they almost surely will now.) they won't be getting those loans. If you were lucky enough to have payroll processed already, you'll get paid. If not, be ready. Did you really think you were invulnerable to this and you could ignore it?

Then those businesses can get a loan from Bank of Am, Chase, Citi, Wells, or any other bank that will be fine. What's that you say? Their credit rating sucks? Too bad.

Fool, they won't be lending. NOBODY is lending. Are you too dense to understand that? Their capital base is so depleated that they are only floating along too.

What the hell are you talking about? Since when can't a small business get a loan from any of those companies? Put up or shut up.

http://www.godlikeproductions....rum1/message613545/pg1

If McDonald's is having a hard time securing enough credit. How do you think his small time competitor across the street is doing?

That is securing credit for frivolous upgrades.

 

[Wreckem]

Originally posted by: senseamp
Looks like GOP is on a suicide course.

Nope. Pelosi is.

I say that because today marks the day that finishes her in terms of remaining Speaker of the House during the 111th Congress.

Pelosi has been the most inept House Speaker in the modern era. She has time and time again failed to get the support needed before bringing a bill the the floor. She has embarrassed herself and her party one to many times. Sure blame the GOP for this. But its really poor management of the House. The Dems have a commanding majority in the House. If she had done her job this bill would not have failed. Her ineptness let this bill fail.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: RichardE
The problem with your idea is most SB use credit lines for payrolls. Credit Lines can't be pulled "overnight" unless the terms are broken. What this means is you will get a paycheck tommorow, but like someone else said, in a year you might not, since than the credit line has to renegotiated.

You are still thinking "short" term which is what got us into this mess in the first place. As long as the banks don't fail in a cascade type of style the Avergae Joe will get there paycheck unless the government gives the banks power to make all contracts null and void. Which kinda fucks them for mortgage contracts. Will be interesting to see what happens to businesses over the next few months.


On a side note

I think this bill should have passed with the government trying to make a proft off it eventually, as well as no "earmarks" type shit on it. Bush and Pelosi are trying to make this bill a partisan hack job which I think is why it failed. Hopefully this not only marks one change, (The change in pushing for credit for low income fucks who can't afford it) but also a change in partisan being more important than American issues.

Credit lines can be pulled if they aren't locked in. In the past year, most credit lines that were renewed were renewed for 1 year, thus, they are only just rolling.

This will constrict things and keep leading downwards.

 

[Stoneburner]

Rahm Emannuel is no Tom Delay

Just let it all burn I still say.

 

[yuppiejr]

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/f...ec=&spon=&pagewanted=1

I find this 1999 article in the NT times interesting considering the current bailout situation...

"In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.

''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.''

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: DrewSG3
For the first time I'm proud of my Congress

Because they just hurt the economy tremendously?

You're economy, not mine. The people (bankers) who screwed over so many common American's with their death grips (mortgages) are now having to suck it up. Great!

LOL. Yeah, where do you think common America gets money?

Their paychecks.

ROFL. This is what I am talking about.

How can we possibly survive as a country with idiots like this around?

For the intellectually challenged, where do companies get their paychecks?

From the good works of the non-profit firms on Wall Street who never do anything themselves to cripple our economy with excesses while providing essential services.

It's funny, people seem able to imagine the horrors if labor had too much power - oh noes, huge wages and all kinds of perks - but not if the finance industry has too much power.

It's not that Wall Street doesn't provide essential services, just as labor does (where would Wall Street be without them); it's just that one is far more prone to excess power.

There will always be the masses of workers, but the concentration of wealth in the finance industry can more easily lead to excess IMO.

How do we protect the essential financial services while also taking this rare chance to cut back on some of the excesses and corruption? I haven't seen that answer yet.

 

[Stuxnet]

Several Republican aides said House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., had torpedoed any spirit of bipartisanship that surrounded the bill with her scathing speech near the close of the debate that blamed Bush's policies for the economic turmoil.

No one's hands are clean on this. Republicans are absolute turds for letting this affect the outcome, and Pelosi is an absolute [blank] with a capital C for politicking like this in the 11th hour.

Line them all up, shoot 'em, and replace 'em with thinking people.

 

[frostedflakes]

Holy shit, it didn't pass? :shocked:

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: DrewSG3
For the first time I'm proud of my Congress

Because they just hurt the economy tremendously?

You're economy, not mine. The people (bankers) who screwed over so many common American's with their death grips (mortgages) are now having to suck it up. Great!

LOL. Yeah, where do you think common America gets money?

Their paychecks.

ROFL. This is what I am talking about.

How can we possibly survive as a country with idiots like this around?

For the intellectually challenged, where do companies get their paychecks?

Intellectually challenged? I believe thats you, not me. But thanks for the comment anyhow. Anyone who has to put down another to make their point is the one who is intellectually challenged.

Do you think because this bailout didn't occur that banks will stop functioning? So businesses won't have business accounts anymore? Do you think personal checking accounts for the common man is suddenly going to dry up?

The only thing this bailout was for was companies who needed to fail because they are obviously too intellectually challenged to run their businesses correctly, or BANKED on the idea of it failing. In other words, they took a huge risk hoping for huge rewards, and it backfired. Now I'm the one who has to pay? No way. Thats their risk they failed, they should close shop. Let other companies who understand good business stay afloat.

Where have you been? How many big banks have already failed? I think if you look around you already have your answer.

 

[DrewSG3]

LET THE FREE MARKET REIGN!

 

[brandonb]

Originally posted by: jbourne77


You totally glossed over a question someone else posed to you: What happens when 95% of all potential car buyers cannot get loans? Mortgagees? Business expansion? Student loans?

I don't think people really understand the potential impact here.

I guess the banks will have to learn to adapt, like everybody else.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: RichardE

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: SP33Demon

Originally posted by: OptimisTech

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY

Originally posted by: OptimisTech
Oh, and for those of you on monthly pay cycles, there is a REAL chance you will not get a check tomorrow.

:roll: What scare tactic email did you buy into?

Read a book. 90% of businesses use short-term loans to meet payroll every month. If the credit markets seize (which they almost surely will now.) they won't be getting those loans. If you were lucky enough to have payroll processed already, you'll get paid. If not, be ready. Did you really think you were invulnerable to this and you could ignore it?

Then those businesses can get a loan from Bank of Am, Chase, Citi, Wells, or any other bank that will be fine. What's that you say? Their credit rating sucks? Too bad.

Fool, they won't be lending. NOBODY is lending. Are you too dense to understand that? Their capital base is so depleated that they are only floating along too.

What the hell are you talking about? Since when can't a small business get a loan from any of those companies? Put up or shut up.

http://www.godlikeproductions....rum1/message613545/pg1

If McDonald's is having a hard time securing enough credit. How do you think his small time competitor across the street is doing?

That is securing credit for frivolous upgrades.

For expanding the business. When you expand a business you create jobs.

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: RichardE
The problem with your idea is most SB use credit lines for payrolls. Credit Lines can't be pulled "overnight" unless the terms are broken. What this means is you will get a paycheck tommorow, but like someone else said, in a year you might not, since than the credit line has to renegotiated.

You are still thinking "short" term which is what got us into this mess in the first place. As long as the banks don't fail in a cascade type of style the Avergae Joe will get there paycheck unless the government gives the banks power to make all contracts null and void. Which kinda fucks them for mortgage contracts. Will be interesting to see what happens to businesses over the next few months.


On a side note

I think this bill should have passed with the government trying to make a proft off it eventually, as well as no "earmarks" type shit on it. Bush and Pelosi are trying to make this bill a partisan hack job which I think is why it failed. Hopefully this not only marks one change, (The change in pushing for credit for low income fucks who can't afford it) but also a change in partisan being more important than American issues.

Credit lines can be pulled if they aren't locked in. In the past year, most credit lines that were renewed were renewed for 1 year, thus, they are only just rolling.

This will constrict things and keep leading downwards.

Ah, I was assuming most SB had locked in credit lines to prevent the type of "on the spot we have no money" issue that seems to be arising.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: jbourne77


You totally glossed over a question someone else posed to you: What happens when 95% of all potential car buyers cannot get loans? Mortgagees? Business expansion? Student loans?

I don't think people really understand the potential impact here.

I guess the banks will have to learn to adapt, like everybody else.

What type of job do you have?