[Austin Statesman] AMD sees a way forward (with new Zen design)

[Fjodor2001]

If it ever exists. Both Haswell IPC (except perhaps in some cherrypicked benchmark) and 4 ghz seem highly unlikely.

Based on what? Speculation?

 

[eternalone]

So you guys are saying if Zen comes out with that fire, that intel would be forced to drop "Moar Cores" damn sounds like a dream to me. I wanna see intel start enticing people with cores, sounds delicious, we need that again. I want to see multi threaded programs and games crushed by my hardware!! not the other way around.

 

[AtenRa]

Of course not, that's why I qualified it with the assumption that AM4 is a ~1000 pin PGA like every AMD PGA socket since Socket 939. Maybe AMD will switch to a higher count LGA, or changing to a 1mm pitch PGA socket, but that would be a little surprising.

Note that I never said it wouldn't be able to fit more than one x16 interface. Another x16 interface isn't really that many pins. Adding another dual channel DDR4 controller is close to 350 pins though.

Well, we were talking about the PCIe lanes, not the Memory controller.

 

[AtenRa]

If it ever exists. Both Haswell IPC (except perhaps in some cherrypicked benchmark) and 4 ghz seem highly unlikely.

IF (with a double capital and bold), ZEN has 40% higher IPC than Excavator then it should be close to Haswell (I dont count Cinebench). 4GHz for a 6C 12T at 95W TDP on the 14nm FF LPP is also reasonable.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Well, lets wait and see. I will believe 6 cores, 95W, 4ghz when I see it.

I am talking stock clocks BTW. Even 14nm Skylake *quad core* is 95 watts.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Back to bulldozer style hype again I see.

 

[tential]

Based on what? Speculation?

A 6 core 12 threaded haswell IPC 4ghz zen processor
Is pure speculation.... I don't see your point

 

[Shehriazad]

I don't expect it to beat anything that will be current gen of Intel.

I simply expect whatever they release (should it be released that is) to win in its' price segment.


So if they have some $200 CPU...it better be punching any Intel $200 CPU in the face. Let's not kid ourselves, even if God himself came down and offered the perfect design...Intel would probably just raise IPC by 5% and win...it's hard to win against that much money in R&D with the tiny budget that AMD has...plus the fact that they will never have access to the same nm size that Intel has. (At least I think that it will never happen)


If they can manage to beat whatver is current gen in the medium price segments at the time, I will take a second look at them. As it stands since I expected Zen 2016 and not 2017...I will have to upgrade to Intel in a few months. 6600k/6700K look nice enough for that.

 

[Phynaz]

Kabylake is an APU with up to 4 cores 8 threads,
First ZEN SKUs (with up to 16 threads ??) will be competing against Socket 2011-V3 and Broadwell-E .

Zen will compete with whatever Intel wants it to compete with.

 

[Fjodor2001]

A 6 core 12 threaded haswell IPC 4ghz zen processor
Is pure speculation.... I don't see your point

He made a statement saying it was unlikely. So what is that statement based on?

 

[Fjodor2001]

Zen will compete with whatever Intel wants it to compete with.

So you consider KabyLake a candidate for being a Zen competitor, if Intel desires?

 

[Sweepr]

He made a statement saying it was unlikely. So what is that statement based on?

You said Intel's 2016-2017 4C/8T chips will be slow and expensive compared to 8C/16T Zen.

You're just bitter because in 2016 you'll be sitting on an expensive and slow 4 core Intel CPU, while others will be using a cheaper and faster 8 core AMD CPU.

What is that statement based on? Care to provide your sources? Is that speculation?

 

[Phynaz]

So you consider KabyLake a candidate for being a Zen competitor, if Intel desires?

Lets say Zen turns out to be the wet dream you wish for. And AMD loves you so they give you an eight core, 16 thread CPU for $299.

Intel goes "Hmmmmm.....4770 list price is now $99." Intel just decided what Zen will compete with.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Shintai, am I missing something? That slide doesn't seem to say anything about the exact number of PCIe 3.0 lanes on Zen. All it shows are some lanes dedicated to storage, extra USB ports, and Promontory.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Shintai, am I missing something? That slide doesn't seem to say anything about the exact number of PCIe 3.0 lanes on Zen. All it shows are some lanes dedicated to storage, extra USB ports, and Promontory.

It specifies x16 for Summit Ridge. The fabled 8 core Zen.

 

[DrMrLordX]

It specifies x16 for Summit Ridge. The fabled 8 core Zen.

Right, but it says nothing about how many x16 slots it could support on the platform.

 

[jpiniero]

They want to attack the Server (Data Center and Cloud) market first, thus the big dies are first and then the APUs.

Like Zen has any chance in servers. They are doing a CPU-only design because they need to get something out ASAP to keep the charade up to Wall Street. Adding in an IGP would only delay things more even though they would need one to sell in any volume.

Literally the only market Zen has a realistic shot in is gamers, and that's a tiny market. And it's still going to be a tough sell.

 

[Boze]

I thought you were only buying 4-5 year old used Intel systems

What is it with you and MiddleOfTheRoad being unable to read...

I said I bought two old office machines, for one a Linux server, the other to give to my brother as gaming machine.

I upgraded to a Core i7 5960X / X99 platform not long after they were released.

But I'm sure Zen will come out in 2017 and I'll see the error of my ways...

At which point I'll just upgrade to a Core i7 7960X with 10 cores...

 

[Zstream]

Like Zen has any chance in servers. They are doing a CPU-only design because they need to get something out ASAP to keep the charade up to Wall Street. Adding in an IGP would only delay things more even though they would need one to sell in any volume.

Literally the only market Zen has a realistic shot in is gamers, and that's a tiny market. And it's still going to be a tough sell.

I'm not how you can come to that conclusion. Heck, cloud servers haven't seen a decent revolution in a while and it sucks. There needs to be someone to push technology. I'm tired of seeing "atom" crap processors pushed on me when they have a very, very limited reach.

 

[Boze]

IF (with a double capital and bold), ZEN has 40% higher IPC than Excavator then it should be close to Haswell (I dont count Cinebench). 4GHz for a 6C 12T at 95W TDP on the 14nm FF LPP is also reasonable.

I still fail to see how this is a win for AMD though?

With Zen pushed to late 2016 / sometime in 2017, and Cannonlake proposed for release around Q1 / Q2 of 2017, Zen has to be able to compete with a 10 nm die shrink of Skylake.

That's a pretty big challenge for a processor architecture for which we still know very little.

 

[jpiniero]

I'm not how you can come to that conclusion. Heck, cloud servers haven't seen a decent revolution in a while and it sucks. There needs to be someone to push technology. I'm tired of seeing "atom" crap processors pushed on me when they have a very, very limited reach.

3DXP should be pretty revolutionary for servers. If Intel executes well, it should be extremely popular and will sell plenty of Purley servers.

The problem with Zen in general is that it's designed with if it was still 2010 when it's coming out in 2017.

 

[mrmt]

The problem with Zen in general is that it's designed with if it was still 2010 when it's coming out in 2017.

Yeah, there's plenty lacking at AMD server offers both in terms of what they offer today and in terms of what they said they will offer.

 

[Arachnotronic]

4GHz for a 6C 12T at 95W TDP on the 14nm FF LPP is also reasonable.

Lol

 

[R0H1T]

I still fail to see how this is a win for AMD though?

With Zen pushed to late 2016 / sometime in 2017, and Cannonlake proposed for release around Q1 / Q2 of 2017, Zen has to be able to compete with a 10 nm die shrink of Skylake.

That's a pretty big challenge for a processor architecture for which we still know very little.

Cannonlake ain't coming in first half of 2017, certainly not since the new roadmap shows Kabylake as a stopgap. Now if Intel wants to do a token launch, like with Broadwell followed by Skylake, then sure you could say AMD's 14nm will fight it out with Intel's 10nm but that is in the distinct realms of possibility.

 

[Arachnotronic]

Cannonlake ain't coming in first half of 2017, certainly not since the new roadmap shows Kabylake as a stopgap. Now if Intel wants to do a token launch, like with Broadwell followed by Skylake, then sure you could say AMD's 14nm will fight it out with Intel's 10nm but that is in the distinct realms of possibility.

Cannonlake will come in 2H 2017.