ATOT: Need job/attitude advice

[rudeguy]

The problem is that even if they give him a full time position, there will be animosity between he and the CEO/owner. As a rule, I do not accept counter-offers from employers. In my experience, when the conditions of my employment become unfavorable, counter-offers (in Rudeguy's case, a FT position) never fix the underlying issues. I have accepted two counter-offers in my life, and will never accept one again. They were both pretty sizeable offers as well. One of them was a bump from $75K/yr to $100K/hr. A year later, I still hated the same things about the company that were going to make me quit.

Right. There is zero animosity right now. None, zero, not a drop. We are all just busy. I am pushing things and to be honest if I told the owner I still hadn't been hired, he would push hard. That would build tension and I don't need that. The CEO and I are both big boys...just busy boys.

If I walked in the CEO's office right now and told him I want double my current rate and full benefits starting tomorrow, he would probably give it to me. But I would forever be his bitch and he would resent me. I don't think he is putting this off to make more money for the company. I won't get into details but the amount they are saving wouldn't even be a factor on the balance sheet. Its just him having time to address it. Plus I really think he is afraid to admit that he has no flipping clue what I do.

 

[highland145]

Double pay and bennies to be a bitch.....where do you work again?

 

[OCGuy]

I guess in the end if everyone was a climber, then the way the average workplace is today would not work.

 

[BikeJunkie]

You guys forget that you have college degrees and years of experience in your field. Rudeguy is Joe Blow looking to make ends meet. You guys probably get your panties in a bunch if there isn't fresh coffee and the office temp is not to your liking when you walk in. Rudeguy would be happy just to have full time and be paid OT for the OT hours he's working.

Who's "you guys"? Just because RudeGuy doesn't have a college degree (?) doesn't mean he can't carry himself professionally (not being a nuisance about a raise, FT position, etc) or negotiate fair employment terms (he's NOT a 1099 by any stretch of the imagination). Degrees and years of experience have nothing to do with that. In fact, it sounds like he's doing a killer job for them and they need him around, so if anything, he's got quite a bit of leverage.

Not sure what the fresh coffee shit has to do with anything. This is a simple matter of how / how not to handle expectations.

That's also a challenge. Our people travel...its just part of the job. With CES coming up, the Ohio thing, holidays and the owner living in another state, we probably won't all be in the same building until mid-January.

So wait until mid-January? I get that they may not all be available right now, but that's pretty normal.

If I were you, I would not utter another word until that time... unless there's some burning reason why this has to happen RIGHT NOW, in which case you're better off writing this whole thing off and finding new work. The reason I say that is because if you turn into a constant pest, they're going to lose whatever motivation they might have to hire you on. At some point you become little more than a malcontent (aka more trouble than you're worth), especially given how busy you say everyone is right now.

If you didn't think you'd be able to get them together until March or something, that would be a different story... but what's a couple weeks? There's definitely something to be said for seizing the moment when you have the most leverage (such as them needing you to travel right now), which makes this less than a cut and dry situation.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Who's "you guys"? Just because RudeGuy doesn't have a college degree (?) doesn't mean he can't carry himself professionally (not being a nuisance about a raise, FT position, etc) or negotiate fair employee conditions (he's NOT a 1099 by any stretch of the imagination). Degrees and years of experience have nothing to do with that. In fact, it sounds like he's doing a killer job for them and they need him around, so if anything, he's got quite a bit of leverage.

Not sure what the fresh coffee shit has to do with anything. This is a simple matter of how / how not to handle expectations.

You'll have to forgive Oilfieldtrash -- he thinks anyone with an office job somehow is spoiled or doesn't work hard. Personally, I think he has sniffed too many petroleum fumes.

 

[BoberFett]

Right. There is zero animosity right now. None, zero, not a drop. We are all just busy. I am pushing things and to be honest if I told the owner I still hadn't been hired, he would push hard. That would build tension and I don't need that. The CEO and I are both big boys...just busy boys.

If I walked in the CEO's office right now and told him I want double my current rate and full benefits starting tomorrow, he would probably give it to me. But I would forever be his bitch and he would resent me. I don't think he is putting this off to make more money for the company. I won't get into details but the amount they are saving wouldn't even be a factor on the balance sheet. Its just him having time to address it. Plus I really think he is afraid to admit that he has no flipping clue what I do.

There's animosity (subconscious maybe) on your end or you wouldn't have started this thread.

If they wanted you full time, they'd have honored your request long ago. If they end up hiring you on FT, you'll cost a lot more and that's money off the bottom line, meaning it cuts the owner's paycheck.

This does not have a happy ending.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

You'll have to forgive Oilfieldtrash -- he thinks anyone with an office job somehow is spoiled or doesn't work hard. Personally, I think he has sniffed too many petroleum fumes.

lol. Tis true. I hate that friggin oilfield smell. Luckily it seems to come out in the wash just fine.

 

[BoberFett]

You'll have to forgive Oilfieldtrash -- he thinks anyone with an office job somehow is spoiled or doesn't work hard. Personally, I think he has sniffed too many petroleum fumes.

LMAO!

This.

 

[rudeguy]

Who's "you guys"? Just because RudeGuy doesn't have a college degree (?) doesn't mean he can't carry himself professionally (not being a nuisance about a raise, FT position, etc) or negotiate fair employment terms (he's NOT a 1099 by any stretch of the imagination). Degrees and years of experience have nothing to do with that. In fact, it sounds like he's doing a killer job for them and they need him around, so if anything, he's got quite a bit of leverage.

Not sure what the fresh coffee shit has to do with anything. This is a simple matter of how / how not to handle expectations.



So wait until mid-January? I get that they may not all be available right now, but that's pretty normal.

If I were you, I would not utter another word until that time... unless there's some burning reason why this has to happen RIGHT NOW, in which case you're better off writing this whole thing off and finding new work. The reason I say that is because if you turn into a constant pest, they're going to lose whatever motivation they might have to hire you on. At some point you become little more than a malcontent (aka more trouble than you're worth), especially given how busy you say everyone is right now.

If you didn't think you'd be able to get them together until March or something, that would be a different story... but what's a couple weeks? There's definitely something to be said for seizing the moment when you have the most leverage (such as them needing you to travel right now), which makes this less than a cut and dry situation.

My main thing right now is the holiday pay. Its basically 36 hours of pay that I am out. That's a hefty chunk and to be honest, with all the work I have put in...I feel I deserve it. Plus the 1st is coming up and I have no idea how that is going to affect lil rudeguy's health care. I tried looking into it but I just got pissed.

So money and my son's health. I am pretty sure I can just continue to pay out of pocket for his diabetes stuff, so that might not be an issue. Then it comes down to good old fashioned money.

 

[rudeguy]

There's animosity (subconscious maybe) on your end or you wouldn't have started this thread.

If they wanted you full time, they'd have honored your request long ago. If they end up hiring you on FT, you'll cost a lot more and that's money off the bottom line, meaning it cuts the owner's paycheck.

This does not have a happy ending.

believe me...that is not a factor. Its really, really, really not a money thing for them.

 

[BikeJunkie]

My main thing right now is the holiday pay. Its basically 36 hours of pay that I am out. That's a hefty chunk and to be honest, with all the work I have put in...I feel I deserve it. Plus the 1st is coming up and I have no idea how that is going to affect lil rudeguy's health care. I tried looking into it but I just got pissed.

So money and my son's health. I am pretty sure I can just continue to pay out of pocket for his diabetes stuff, so that might not be an issue. Then it comes down to good old fashioned money.

Fair enough - I didn't realize there were medical issues in play, as well. I hope everything works out well for you. It sounds like you have a good work ethic and hopefully they notice it, too :thumbsup:

 

[OCGuy]

believe me...that is not a factor. Its really, really, really not a money thing for them.

You are an easy mark to take advantage of unfortunately. It has been explained to you in this thread that they are illegally classifying you in order to save money, and it endangers not only you but your family.

Nobody is going to be able to change your Omega personality, which is perfectly fine.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

believe me...that is not a factor. Its really, really, really not a money thing for them.

Wut? It's always about the money. It's likely you'd cost them 2x as much once they start paying you the OT you rightfully earned and whatever other taxes they should be paying.

 

[purbeast0]

believe me...that is not a factor. Its really, really, really not a money thing for them.

it is 100% about the money whichever way you want to cut it.

and i still don't understand how they "dont have time" to bring you on fulltime. bringing someone on fulltime is just paperwork.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Sorry to tell you dude but that is a bad job tbh. I'm not saying I'm perfect or my job is roses but from what I've read it has a lot of bad things going for it. First you are paying your own taxes, working out of town, not being paid OT hours you rightfully earned, etc..
Sounds like you work for a bunch of crooks. I don't expect your come to Jesus meetings to suddenly open their eyes and make them stop being the scumbags they are.
I wish you luck and hopefully I'm wrong and they take care of you.

 

[TheFamilyMan]

believe me...that is not a factor. Its really, really, really not a money thing for them.

Believe me, from someone who is in Sr. Management currently, it is really, really, really a money thing for them.

You will end up costing them somewhere between 50% and 75% add'l in terms of cost vs. keeping you on as a temp.

Real world example...one of the managers came to me requesting the fill of an open $50k position that was probably somewhere around $80k - $100k fully-loaded. The position was fully-justifiable and existed previously. Final determination from the Sr. Management team was the headcount add was nixed and a contractor was brought in for the duties at around $60k. All the top brass saw was somewhere around $40k in yearly "savings".

 

[PenguinPower]

Believe me, from someone who is in Sr. Management currently, it is really, really, really a money thing for them.

You will end up costing them somewhere between 50% and 75% add'l in terms of cost vs. keeping you on as a temp.

Real world example...one of the managers came to me requesting the fill of an open $50k position that was probably somewhere around $80k - $100k fully-loaded. The position was fully-justifiable and existed previously. Final determination from the Sr. Management team was the headcount add was nixed and a contractor was brought in for the duties at around $60k. All the top brass saw was somewhere around $40k in yearly "savings".

What type of total comp programs do you have to have a 60-100% burden? That's insane.

 

[BoberFett]

believe me...that is not a factor. Its really, really, really not a money thing for them.

Now you're just at the stage of willful denial.

 

[BoberFett]

What type of total comp programs do you have to have a 60-100% burden? That's insane.

Isn't typical burdened rate about 30-40% on top of base salary?

Of course in this case, they also have to add on overtime which they're not currently paying, or go exempt and raise his base salary accordingly. Either way I wouldn't be surprised if he costs them 60% more as FT.

 

[rudeguy]

Now you're just at the stage of willful denial.

Very well could be...

 

[TheFamilyMan]

What type of total comp programs do you have to have a 60-100% burden? That's insane.

We have fairly robust holiday/sick/PTO benefits along with a DPS component as % of salary plus a matching for 401k. Add that to all the other "normal" loads on an employee's salary and the 60% - 100% number gets clearer.

 

[xeemzor]

Very well could be...

It's really hard to go through this now but I hope you end up stronger on the other side.

 

[rudeguy]

It's really hard to go through this now but I hope you end up stronger on the other side.

It's not hard at all.

I'm not hurting for money, they treat me well and I can work as much or little as I want.

 

[OCGuy]

I'm not hurting for money, they treat me well and I can work as much or little as I want.

LOL

 

[rudeguy]

LOL

Look who's talking. You still owe me 4 reacharounds.