ATOT: Need job/attitude advice

[Ns1]

ok...gave it one last shot.

Emailed the CEO asking to at least make up for the holiday pay (pretty decent number) and then we can figure the rest out once things calm down.

Put some money in my pocket and I can be a pretty patient guy.

stance of non-dominance, round 2!

 

[Vdubchaos]

ok...gave it one last shot.

Emailed the CEO asking to at least make up for the holiday pay (pretty decent number) and then we can figure the rest out once things calm down.

Put some money in my pocket and I can be a pretty patient guy.

Now you really got them laughing at you.

 

[BikeJunkie]

Emailed?

Chickenshit.

 

[Hacp]

You just got owned. Never do this shit without another job offer in hand.

 

[rudeguy]

Emailed?

Chickenshit.

?

I don't even know what state the CEO is in right now.

 

[rudeguy]

You just got owned. Never do this shit without another job offer in hand.

meh...I didn't threaten. Just made a suggestion. Meanwhile I start returning headhunter emails and working some connections.

 

[BikeJunkie]

?

I don't even know what state the CEO is in right now.

Really? If someone's johnson was up my ass, I'd have a pretty good idea of where they were.

In all seriousness, doing this over email is almost juvenile, and does nothing to assert yourself as someone to be taken seriously. To them, it looks like they still have you on the hook and you're almost begging for a consolation prize. Yes, they'll happily pay you for a little O/T while they continue screwing you over on the big picture.

Dude. No more emails. Step away from the keyboard. Do not discuss this with them again until you can get them both in the same room with you for a face to face conversation.

Better yet, just quit (when you have a new job lined up). I know I'm armchair quarterbacking this whole thing from hundreds of miles away, but the salvageability of this is questionable at best.

 

[JEDIYoda]

?

I don't even know what state the CEO is in right now.
__________________

probably the state of laughter or confusion.........

 

[Ns1]

probably the state of laughter or confusion.........

LOL

caps

 

[purbeast0]

no offense rudeguy but the fact that you keep sending emails and not doing this in person does in fact make you sound like a pushover and it's not surprising that they have continued this behavior with you, because it seems you simply won't sack up.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

ok...gave it one last shot.

Emailed the CEO asking to at least make up for the holiday pay (pretty decent number) and then we can figure the rest out once things calm down.

Put some money in my pocket and I can be a pretty patient guy.

How large of a company is this? (I may have missed this earlier).

You probably should do what I did to my last CIO -- I looked at his calendar, found an opening, and then sent him a meeting invitation. That gets you time on his calendar (assuming he accepts, which he would) and he'll have no excuse to blow you off.

In my case, I went into his office and quickly established a stance of dominance, with the final bit of ownage occurring about 3 weeks later when I had 3 job offers in my hand and told him to fuck off.

 

[rudeguy]

How large of a company is this? (I may have missed this earlier).

You probably should do what I did to my last CIO -- I looked at his calendar, found an opening, and then sent him a meeting invitation. That gets you time on his calendar (assuming he accepts, which he would) and he'll have no excuse to blow you off.

In my case, I went into his office and quickly established a stance of dominance, with the final bit of ownage occurring about 3 weeks later when I had 3 job offers in my hand and told him to fuck off.

Its a small company, probably around 100 employees. But we have offices and warehouses in every part of the country. We also do a very large dollar amount of business a year. Its the kind of place where everyone wears many hats. And if a new hat comes along, you are going to have to learn how to wear that hat as well.

The problem right now is that leadership is in scramble mode. They messed up on projections and we are doing a lot...a lot lot more business than they thought. Plus they have to get the Ohio thing working properly. We set up the IT stuff, now they get to figure out how to make the business work. This is something completely new to them, so they are in full on panic mode.

 

[OCGuy]

no offense rudeguy but the fact that you keep sending emails and not doing this in person does in fact make you sound like a pushover and it's not surprising that they have continued this behavior with you, because it seems you simply won't sack up.

This.

I'm sorry but if an employee emails me something that makes me think they are afraid of speaking to me in person about it, it can change how I react to it.

Not a good thing.

 

[rudeguy]

This.

I'm sorry but if an employee emails me something that makes me think they are afraid of speaking to me in person about it, it can change how I react to it.

Not a good thing.

/shrug Its just how we do things.

Just to find out what would happen I went downstairs to see if he was there and he was. I asked him if he got a chance to look at the email I had sent and he promised me he would get with me before the end of the day.

Oh...and I am probably going back to Ohio at the end of the week

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I honestly think they'll hire you on at this point but will continue to screw you over as long as they possibly can or as long as you let them. Sounds like it would cost them more to start over at this point re-training the next guy and there is a good chance they'll go through several employees before they find a competent one to replace you. Just showing up to work and working hard puts you above the curve.
I could be totally wrong though and they are just screwing you over completely and will hire the next whipping boy as soon as you have had enough. I've seen companies like that too. They look at workers just like you do a set of tires on your car. Nothing more or nothing less.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

also good luck with whatever happens. I have been there with the job difficulties. Nothing worse than that kind of stress. Life is good about giving you a good kick in the teeth just when you thought you had it figured out.

 

[rudeguy]

I honestly think they'll hire you on at this point but will continue to screw you over as long as they possibly can or as long as you let them. Sounds like it would cost them more to start over at this point re-training the next guy and there is a good chance they'll go through several employees before they find a competent one to replace you. Just showing up to work and working hard puts you above the curve.
I could be totally wrong though and they are just screwing you over completely and will hire the next whipping boy as soon as you have had enough. I've seen companies like that too. They look at workers just like you do a set of tires on your car. Nothing more or nothing less.

There are other things as well. They have spent over $10k on equipment just for me. There are also no instructions on what I do. Its 100% all trial and error. I know of a few other guys in the country that do this kind of thing but no one local. Not saying I am something special, just that I have a very specific skill set.

We will see what happens. If we part ways that is fine. If I stay on, that is fine too. I just need to get an answer or at least some cash in my pocket to keep me happy.

 

[BoberFett]

OT would normally be figured weekly. I get paid straight time no matter how many hours I work.

So week 1 I billed for somewhere around 65 hours. I worked more but I didn't document and that is my fault. I can't remember start and stop times. Week 2 we were closed 5 hours on 12-24 and 8 hours on 12-25.

On a normal pay cycle I bill 88 hours. This most recent one I billed 92.

They're paying you like an independent contractor but treating you like an employee. You have them over a barrel if you report them to the IRS.

http://www.twc.state.tx.us/news/efte/appx_d_irs_ic_test.html

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

There are other things as well. They have spent over $10k on equipment just for me. There are also no instructions on what I do. Its 100% all trial and error. I know of a few other guys in the country that do this kind of thing but no one local. Not saying I am something special, just that I have a very specific skill set.

We will see what happens. If we part ways that is fine. If I stay on, that is fine too. I just need to get an answer or at least some cash in my pocket to keep me happy.

The problem with those very specific skill sets is they aren't good for anything outside of your tiny little world. Not sure how old you are but you might want to find something more sustainable for the long term regardless of what happens with these guys. Last thing you want is to be 40+ when this place folds and nowhere to go after that. That's why I left my last job. Sure I was making decent money but I knew it wasn't a sustainable income for the future.

 

[BoberFett]

Really? If someone's johnson was up my ass, I'd have a pretty good idea of where they were.

In all seriousness, doing this over email is almost juvenile, and does nothing to assert yourself as someone to be taken seriously. To them, it looks like they still have you on the hook and you're almost begging for a consolation prize. Yes, they'll happily pay you for a little O/T while they continue screwing you over on the big picture.

Dude. No more emails. Step away from the keyboard. Do not discuss this with them again until you can get them both in the same room with you for a face to face conversation.

Better yet, just quit (when you have a new job lined up). I know I'm armchair quarterbacking this whole thing from hundreds of miles away, but the salvageability of this is questionable at best.

The problem is that even if they give him a full time position, there will be animosity between he and the CEO/owner. As a rule, I do not accept counter-offers from employers. In my experience, when the conditions of my employment become unfavorable, counter-offers (in Rudeguy's case, a FT position) never fix the underlying issues. I have accepted two counter-offers in my life, and will never accept one again. They were both pretty sizeable offers as well. One of them was a bump from $75K/yr to $100K/hr. A year later, I still hated the same things about the company that were going to make me quit.

 

[BikeJunkie]

Just to find out what would happen I went downstairs to see if he was there and he was. I asked him if he got a chance to look at the email I had sent and he promised me he would get with me before the end of the day.

There's a reason I said "don't say another word about this until you have them both in a room so you can talk about it." Why? Because even though they owe you a lot more than they're giving you, at some point you're just going to be seen as a whiny pain in the ass that won't shut up.

It's one thing to know what you're worth and to respectfully negotiate it, but it's another thing to be a constant gnat in their faces about it.

You need to back the crap off until you everyone is available for you to handle it properly. That means EVERYONE in ONE room for ONE conversation. Not constant emails, checking up on emails, blah blah blah. That's not only unproductive, it's a nuisance.

 

[BikeJunkie]

The problem is that even if they give him a full time position, there will be animosity between he and the CEO/owner. As a rule, I do not accept counter-offers from employers. In my experience, when the conditions of my employment become unfavorable, counter-offers (in Rudeguy's case, a FT position) never fix the underlying issues. I have accepted two counter-offers in my life, and will never accept one again. They were both pretty sizeable offers as well. One of them was a bump from $75K/yr to $100K/hr. A year later, I still hated the same things about the company that were going to make me quit.

I totally agree:

Yep. What's sad is that no matter what happens, a good working relationship is destroyed. Those are hard to come by.

I don't think he should threaten to quit. I've never been an advocate of that. Best case scenario, he makes the threat and they give him what he wants. Except now no one trusts anyone. They'll feel victimized/strong-armed (even though they deserve it) and wonder if he'll do it again to them. He'll wonder if they just bought themselves time so they can lay him off or fire him outright.

What he SHOULD do is have his conversation with them today, but without threats of any kind. No ultimatums. Even if they ask "if we don't do this for you, will you leave?", you don't stoop to that. You just say "I think this is an appropriate step for someone in my position doing the work I'm doing" and leave it at that.

If they don't come through for him, then he needs to find another job ASAP and quit without entertaining a counteroffer. If they do counter (which they probably will), you just say:

No thanks. I appreciate the offer and the time I spent here, but we have different goals and I think it's best we go our separate ways.

If they have half a brain, they'll see that for what it is: You fucked me and thought you could get away with it. You were wrong. You get to have your jab without being a dick/unprofessional.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

You guys forget that you have college degrees and years of experience in your field. Rudeguy is Joe Blow looking to make ends meet. You guys probably get your panties in a bunch if there isn't fresh coffee and the office temp is not to your liking when you walk in. Rudeguy would be happy just to have full time and be paid OT for the OT hours he's working.

 

[rudeguy]

There's a reason I said "don't say another word about this until you have them both in a room so you can talk about it." Why? Because even though they owe you a lot more than they're giving you, at some point you're just going to be seen as a whiny pain in the ass that won't shut up.

It's one thing to know what you're worth and to respectfully negotiate it, but it's another thing to be a constant gnat in their faces about it.

You need to back the crap off until you everyone is available for you to handle it properly. That means EVERYONE in ONE room for ONE conversation. Not constant emails, checking up on emails, blah blah blah. That's not only unproductive, it's a nuisance.

That's also a challenge. Our people travel...its just part of the job. With CES coming up, the Ohio thing, holidays and the owner living in another state, we probably won't all be in the same building until mid-January.

 

[OCGuy]

You guys forget that you have college degrees and years of experience in your field. Rudeguy is Joe Blow looking to make ends meet. You guys probably get your panties in a bunch if there isn't fresh coffee and the office temp is not to your liking when you walk in. Rudeguy would be happy just to have full time and be paid OT for the OT hours he's working.

It isn't about qualifications or degrees, it is about extremely predictable human behavior. What an advantage someone has that they can post on the internet and get instant advice from people who have been through all of the same workplace politics BS.

I don't think anyone is being hard on rudeguy.....I think most of us want him to force the employer's hand and either get the treatment/respect that he legally deserves, or move on to some place else that will give it to him.