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ATOT, let's decide on the Mohammed cartoons - POLL

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In the show South Park, it showed god and jesus in a very humorous manner, and i didnt see any riots and such. Anyway yeah, the whole danish cartoon thing is a form of free speech.
 
I knew I'd find something on this issue here. It's good to see that most of AT is thinking clearly. Islam is having a disproportionate impact on the workings of the West. [relatively] Few people here practice it, but evidently a great many Islam apologists are ready to defend it, as if it's some peaceful religion (it is not in its pure form or practiced form a peaceful religion). We must all be careful not to practice too much nihilism in this matter because it's a dangerous path. The religion continues to have its greatest representation in nations rife with oppression and who prize values that most of us in the West abhor. I, for one, would rather live in the country I live in now than in a Caliphate. We live in our current society because we prize freedom of expression and religious freedom but also because we're willing to step up when it has to be done. Fleeing from the fight and pretending that "it will be ok" is, afterall, what started WWII and many other conflicts throughout history. These buffoons inflicting violence because of some harmless cartoons are not your friends. You don't believe what they believe and you should not be ashamed of your history. I take comfort in knowing that we (the West, the East, and anybody who wouldn't see some cartoons and go make a molotov cocktail) are successful enough, educated enough, and strong enough to overcome such idiocy, for the most part, but sometimes a little germ can multiply and make the body sick and we need to ward off that germ (i.e. condemn the violence, don't apologize for it, and turn the blame where it belongs: at idiotic violent animals and not people who draw cartoons).
 
If I publicly burned the Bible, I'm sure I'd get death threats and the like.

Now the psychos who go out and become violent over this, they don't understand free speech.
 
Originally posted by: K3N
In the show South Park, it showed god and jesus in a very humorous manner, and i didnt see any riots and such. Anyway yeah, the whole danish cartoon thing is a form of free speech.
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lol yea jesus is jerry springer type talkshow host...
and the jerry springer opera has a gay jesus
 
Originally posted by: slash196
For the last time, this isn't a free speech issue. It's a "You deliberately offended a fourth of the world and now they're angry" issue.
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You've been infected with Politically correct thinking. I suggest you purge yourself of it, as it can be very dangerous.

If all it takes to classify something as "Wrong" is for it to cause someone to be offended, then all you would have to do to destroy the free thinking that you do not agree with is to get a group of people to be offended by it. I think you can see where this is leading.

Many devious people have taken advantage of the mechanism of political corectness to socially program entire populations. A truly free society will require some thick skin. Unfortunately most of the world (including people in the United States) do not have thick skin.

 
Originally posted by: Skoorb
I knew I'd find something on this issue here. It's good to see that most of AT is thinking clearly. Islam is having a disproportionate impact on the workings of the West. [relatively] Few people here practice it, but evidently a great many Islam apologists are ready to defend it, as if it's some peaceful religion (it is not in its pure form or practiced form a peaceful religion). We must all be careful not to practice too much nihilism in this matter because it's a dangerous path. The religion continues to have its greatest representation in nations rife with oppression and who prize values that most of us in the West abhor. I, for one, would rather live in the country I live in now than in a Caliphate. We live in our current society because we prize freedom of expression and religious freedom but also because we're willing to step up when it has to be done. Fleeing from the fight and pretending that "it will be ok" is, afterall, what started WWII and many other conflicts throughout history. These buffoons inflicting violence because of some harmless cartoons are not your friends. You don't believe what they believe and you should not be ashamed of your history. I take comfort in knowing that we (the West, the East, and anybody who wouldn't see some cartoons and go make a molotov cocktail) are successful enough, educated enough, and strong enough to overcome such idiocy, for the most part, but sometimes a little germ can multiply and make the body sick and we need to ward off that germ (i.e. condemn the violence, don't apologize for it, and turn the blame where it belongs: at idiotic violent animals and not people who draw cartoons).
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:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Free speach issue or not, once it was evident how angry this made the Muslim world, an apology should have been issued at the very least.

And the other news institutions who reprinted them really should have not done it. By then I would say it appears they were simply trying to pick a fight.
 
Originally posted by: thraashman
Free speach issue or not, once it was evident how angry this made the Muslim world, an apology should have been issued at the very least.

And the other news institutions who reprinted them really should have not done it. By then I would say it appears they were simply trying to pick a fight.
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An apology has been issued and hasn't stopped anything.
 
Originally posted by: thraashman
Free speach issue or not, once it was evident how angry this made the Muslim world, an apology should have been issued at the very least.

And the other news institutions who reprinted them really should have not done it. By then I would say it appears they were simply trying to pick a fight.
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You, Sir, are an ass. The newspaper DID apologize LONG time ago. The problem is muslims want Danish government to apologize. Which it can not do, not for an independent newspaper, and not because of what it did is not agains the law!
THAT is the issue!
 
Originally posted by: DaFinn
Originally posted by: thraashman
Free speach issue or not, once it was evident how angry this made the Muslim world, an apology should have been issued at the very least.

And the other news institutions who reprinted them really should have not done it. By then I would say it appears they were simply trying to pick a fight.
Click to expand...

You, Sir, are an ass. The newspaper DID apologize LONG time ago. The problem is muslims want Danish government to apologize. Which it can not do, not for an independent newspaper, and not because of what it did is not agains the law!
THAT is the issue!
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From the link posted above.

"The Danish paper's editor initially refused to apologize for publishing the caricatures, insisting on the right to freedom of expression, but finally issued an apology late Monday for offending Muslims"

That's what I was referring to. Had he not refused at first and then waited so long to issue an apology, the issue would not have grown so large.
 
New evidence suggests the riots were a Muslim fabrication:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4686536.stm

From the text: "Twelve cartoons were originally published by Jyllands-Posten. None showed the Prophet with the face of a pig. Yet such a portrayal has circulated in the Middle East (The BBC was caught out and for a time showed film of this in Gaza without realizing it was not one of the 12).

This picture, a fuzzy grey photocopy, can now be traced back (suspicion having been confirmed by an admission) to a delegation of Danish Muslim leaders who went to the Middle East in November to publicise the cartoons. The visit was organised by Abu Laban, a leading Muslim figure in Denmark.

According to the Danish paper Ekstra Bladet, the delegation took along a pamphlet showing the 12 drawings. But the delegation also showed a number of other pictures, including the "pig" one. The delegation claimed they were the sort of insults that Muslims in Denmark had to endure. These also got into circulation.

(Update: A reader has e-mailed to say that the original of the "pig" picture was from a "pig-squealing" competition held in France every summer. Some character dressed up like a pig. See the link to the neandernews.com site on the right for the details.

Ekstra Bladet has also published a letter taken by the delegation on its mission. This gives the delegation's account of how the cartoons originated and what the reaction to them was. But it also mentions other pictures, which it said were "much more offending." These presumably included the "pig" picture, whose origin is now known.) "

So... the nice followers of the religion of peace were duped by their own religious leaders into thinking things were worse than they were... THEY THINK MOHAMMED WAS PORTRAYED AS A PIG, THEY HAVE NOT SEEN THE ACTUAL CARTOONS!!!!
 
Not surprising.

The Muslims seem more interested in creating trouble then in worrying about facts. All they've done is to further alienate themselves from their "adopted countries", but that is exactly what the Muslim leadership wanted, now isn't it.
 
Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
New evidence suggests the riots were a Muslim fabrication:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4686536.stm

From the text: "Twelve cartoons were originally published by Jyllands-Posten. None showed the Prophet with the face of a pig. Yet such a portrayal has circulated in the Middle East (The BBC was caught out and for a time showed film of this in Gaza without realizing it was not one of the 12).

This picture, a fuzzy grey photocopy, can now be traced back (suspicion having been confirmed by an admission) to a delegation of Danish Muslim leaders who went to the Middle East in November to publicise the cartoons. The visit was organised by Abu Laban, a leading Muslim figure in Denmark.

According to the Danish paper Ekstra Bladet, the delegation took along a pamphlet showing the 12 drawings. But the delegation also showed a number of other pictures, including the "pig" one. The delegation claimed they were the sort of insults that Muslims in Denmark had to endure. These also got into circulation.

(Update: A reader has e-mailed to say that the original of the "pig" picture was from a "pig-squealing" competition held in France every summer. Some character dressed up like a pig. See the link to the neandernews.com site on the right for the details.

Ekstra Bladet has also published a letter taken by the delegation on its mission. This gives the delegation's account of how the cartoons originated and what the reaction to them was. But it also mentions other pictures, which it said were "much more offending." These presumably included the "pig" picture, whose origin is now known.) "

So... the nice followers of the religion of peace were duped by their own religious leaders into thinking things were worse than they were... THEY THINK MOHAMMED WAS PORTRAYED AS A PIG, THEY HAVE NOT SEEN THE ACTUAL CARTOONS!!!!
Click to expand...

So you are still attacking the entire religion when it is few idiot extremist cleric that fabricated the pig picture to further their political agenda?

I have always said it and I will say it again. Islam have been used as a tool for some extremist to further their political agenda, be it their personal war against the west, or trying to break away from some country..... If the West is smart enough, deal with those extremist instead of pissing off more moderate and push them to become extremist.

But appearantly people here still think the entire 1.2 billion Muslim are extremist and treat the entire religion with disrespect and discrimination.
 
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
New evidence suggests the riots were a Muslim fabrication:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4686536.stm

From the text: "Twelve cartoons were originally published by Jyllands-Posten. None showed the Prophet with the face of a pig. Yet such a portrayal has circulated in the Middle East (The BBC was caught out and for a time showed film of this in Gaza without realizing it was not one of the 12).

This picture, a fuzzy grey photocopy, can now be traced back (suspicion having been confirmed by an admission) to a delegation of Danish Muslim leaders who went to the Middle East in November to publicise the cartoons. The visit was organised by Abu Laban, a leading Muslim figure in Denmark.

According to the Danish paper Ekstra Bladet, the delegation took along a pamphlet showing the 12 drawings. But the delegation also showed a number of other pictures, including the "pig" one. The delegation claimed they were the sort of insults that Muslims in Denmark had to endure. These also got into circulation.

(Update: A reader has e-mailed to say that the original of the "pig" picture was from a "pig-squealing" competition held in France every summer. Some character dressed up like a pig. See the link to the neandernews.com site on the right for the details.

Ekstra Bladet has also published a letter taken by the delegation on its mission. This gives the delegation's account of how the cartoons originated and what the reaction to them was. But it also mentions other pictures, which it said were "much more offending." These presumably included the "pig" picture, whose origin is now known.) "

So... the nice followers of the religion of peace were duped by their own religious leaders into thinking things were worse than they were... THEY THINK MOHAMMED WAS PORTRAYED AS A PIG, THEY HAVE NOT SEEN THE ACTUAL CARTOONS!!!!
Click to expand...

So you are still attacking the entire religion when it is few idiot extremist cleric that fabricated the pig picture to further their political agenda?

I have always said it and I will say it again. Islam have been used as a tool for some extremist to further their political agenda, be it their personal war against the west, or trying to break away from some country..... If the West is smart enough, deal with those extremist instead of pissing off more moderate and push them to become extremist.

But appearantly people here still think the entire 1.2 billion Muslim are extremist and treat the entire religion with disrespect and discrimination.
Click to expand...


Seems like Islam has a propensity towards large scale violence and hardcore extremism. Reason enough. Also, it seems has Islam has followers that will defend it no matter what, including people like you.
 
I think that it is completely within their "Free Speech" rights to print these. Do I think that they should have based on the content's taste and likelyhood to cause harm to others, no.
 
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: AnitaPeterson
New evidence suggests the riots were a Muslim fabrication:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4686536.stm

From the text: "Twelve cartoons were originally published by Jyllands-Posten. None showed the Prophet with the face of a pig. Yet such a portrayal has circulated in the Middle East (The BBC was caught out and for a time showed film of this in Gaza without realizing it was not one of the 12).

This picture, a fuzzy grey photocopy, can now be traced back (suspicion having been confirmed by an admission) to a delegation of Danish Muslim leaders who went to the Middle East in November to publicise the cartoons. The visit was organised by Abu Laban, a leading Muslim figure in Denmark.

According to the Danish paper Ekstra Bladet, the delegation took along a pamphlet showing the 12 drawings. But the delegation also showed a number of other pictures, including the "pig" one. The delegation claimed they were the sort of insults that Muslims in Denmark had to endure. These also got into circulation.

(Update: A reader has e-mailed to say that the original of the "pig" picture was from a "pig-squealing" competition held in France every summer. Some character dressed up like a pig. See the link to the neandernews.com site on the right for the details.

Ekstra Bladet has also published a letter taken by the delegation on its mission. This gives the delegation's account of how the cartoons originated and what the reaction to them was. But it also mentions other pictures, which it said were "much more offending." These presumably included the "pig" picture, whose origin is now known.) "

So... the nice followers of the religion of peace were duped by their own religious leaders into thinking things were worse than they were... THEY THINK MOHAMMED WAS PORTRAYED AS A PIG, THEY HAVE NOT SEEN THE ACTUAL CARTOONS!!!!
Click to expand...

So you are still attacking the entire religion when it is few idiot extremist cleric that fabricated the pig picture to further their political agenda?

I have always said it and I will say it again. Islam have been used as a tool for some extremist to further their political agenda, be it their personal war against the west, or trying to break away from some country..... If the West is smart enough, deal with those extremist instead of pissing off more moderate and push them to become extremist.

But appearantly people here still think the entire 1.2 billion Muslim are extremist and treat the entire religion with disrespect and discrimination.
Click to expand...

Gee, aren't the Muslims attacking the entire west's right to freedom of speech?

See how you are??
 
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Gee, aren't the Muslims attacking the entire west's right to freedom of speech?

See how you are??
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Heh, what are u smoking? Most of the Muslim world don't even know what the heck freedom of speech is. How do they attack something they don't know.

All they know is someone insulted them big time and they react to it. So just keep on exercising your "freedom of speech" and keep on insulting the entire Muslim community. We'll just have to see who turn out to be the winner in this pissing contest.....by the way, there are people outside of the West and Muslim, and when you guys are done with your pissing contest, both of you can turn out to be the loser. 🙂
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Quick, Christians - time to riot!

http://wcbstv.com/local/local_story_033162841.html

Bin Laden Artwork Now Hanging In New York


Morry Alter

(CBS) NEW YORK Is that who we think it is in that picture?

Our interest in this story was sparked by an angry email sent to us here at WCBSTV.com. The writer wasn't angry at us, but rather about what he'd seen at the current National Black Fine Art Show in the Puck Building. This is the 10th anniversary edition of the show which features galleries from across the country selling the works of America's top African American painters, sculptors, and photographers.

But the writer had big problems with a painting by Harlem artist "Tafa". It depicts an upside down Christ-like figure with a face strongly resembling Osama Bin Laden. The email read in part, "This is outrageous. This is an attack against my religion. How can an artist go so low? Most people are outraged, most Christians."

On the phone with me, the artist declined to do an on-camera interview, telling me the work speaks for itself, but adding, the resemblance to Bin Laden was no accident.

The art show's producer Josh Wainwright, insisted he hadn't even made the Bin Laden connection. "Knowing what you know now would you have barred the painting from being part of your show?" I asked. "Absolutely not," he replied. Wainwright says he's a military veteran and despises Bin Laden, but he added, "I don't think it's anyone's job or vocation to limit the expression of artists."

While some at the show did recognize the Bin Laden face on the Christ body, we found none who were offended. Instead most defended "Tafa" the artist's right to speak his mind. The painting is bordered with hand lettered expressions and names including "mujahadin," "McCarthyism," and "Amadou Diallo," a man killed by New York City police in 1999.

You could take the painting out of circulation, or not, for a mere $12,000 and change. You can see the painting, or not, by visiting the show which runs through Sunday. Daily admission is $15.
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Not to mention, Andres Serrano, Piss Christ. Remember that? Wait, you prolly weren't born yet. 😛
 
I'm just amazed that 22 people have voted "NO"... apparently some people believe that there should be exceptions to the freedom of expression?

Alot of people have equated this mess to the act of shouting "fire" in a crowded theater, which actually IS a crime. I just dont see the connection here. One is an instant call for action which may lead to the trampling injuries/deaths of many people. ok, fine, that's a crime. But a cartoon is simply a form of artistic expression! Regardless of its insulting nature and obviously immature nature, how the hell can this be equated to an instant call for action or reaction?!

There have been many cultures during the last 2000 years which have tried to stamp out artistic expression. Now we see an entire religion attempting to do so...

it's almost too crazy to comprehend.

 
Originally posted by: rchiu
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Gee, aren't the Muslims attacking the entire west's right to freedom of speech?

See how you are??
Click to expand...

Heh, what are u smoking? Most of the Muslim world don't even know what the heck freedom of speech is. How do they attack something they don't know.

All they know is someone insulted them big time and they react to it. So just keep on exercising your "freedom of speech" and keep on insulting the entire Muslim community. We'll just have to see who turn out to be the winner in this pissing contest.....by the way, there are people outside of the West and Muslim, and when you guys are done with your pissing contest, both of you can turn out to be the loser. 🙂
Click to expand...

So what if they dont know what the freedom of speech is? Doesn't mean we're any less entitled to it.
 
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