ATI to raise prices?

[Blazer7]

When NVIDIA was charging more for their cards they were "gouging their customers". Now that AMD is doing pretty much the same thing it's OK.

How is that the same thing?

nV was charging $650 when ATi's flagship costs $400. Not to mention that the 5850 is still cheaper (and faster) than the gtx285. Even with the $20 raise the 5850 will still be cheaper than the gtx285.

 

[yacoub]

Any card over $50 is a luxury item anyways and by no means necessary to run a computer or even play games on one.

Irrelevant to business. Business is about designing products that will sell and generate revenue. What market level the card sells at does not change that. Thus, prices can only be increased so long as sales continue. Prices do not just go up "just because". They go up IF and ONLY IF the market can support the increase (or the person in charge of pricing is ignorant of economics). Else, the product is End of Life.

 

[Wreckage]

It's lame, if true. At best it shows AMD's management failed to predict supply/demand, and at worst it'd be kind of a bait and switch

I do think it is like a bait and switch scam. Have one MSRP for when all the reviews come out and you have very few cards to sell at that price. Then up the price later, knowing that most reviews won't change the pricing info.

 

[Schmide]

I do think it is like a bait and switch scam. Have one MSRP for when all the reviews come out and you have very few cards to sell at that price. Then up the price later, knowing that most reviews won't change the pricing info.

Not even close to a bait and switch. A bait and switch is when you advertise a certain item that you have no inventory on to get the customer in the door, then try and talk them into the more pricey model. More a retail B&M thing.

It's more a supply and demand on real-time pricing engine thing.

But keep looking for conspiracies dude.

 

[HumblePie]

Wow and the fanbois from both sides continue to bicker by still assuming the truth of the validity of the link in the original post.

Again, the better argument would be to determine if the story in the link is actually TRUE at all before going down other roads about the merit of what either corporation has done or may be doing.

 

[Idontcare]

the better argument would be to determine if the story in the link is actually TRUE at all before going down other roads about the merit of what either corporation has done or may be doing.

We aren't overly big on the whole "fact checking" thing here in the video forums, we tend to find more sport in entertaining ourselves over bickering about whether or not people are formulating and framing their arguments correctly, regardless the backdrop of insufficient facts supporting the need for an argument from either side. It's "what we do" here...

 

[Wreckage]

Wow and the fanbois from both sides continue to bicker by still assuming the truth of the validity of the link in the original post.

Again, the better argument would be to determine if the story in the link is actually TRUE at all before going down other roads about the merit of what either corporation has done or may be doing.

Newegg does not have any in stock, but their listings show each card at $10-$30 over MSRP.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...n=5870&x=0&y=0

ZZF also lacks stock and their listings go as high as $60 over MSRP.

Granted these prices may be due to a soft launch.

 

[HOOfan 1]

This may be the first time in history the early adopters were rewarded.

Once again the conservative sandwich-heavy portfolio pays of for the hungry investor
-Dr. Zoidberg

 

[nitromullet]

Newegg does not have any in stock, but their listings show each card at $10-$30 over MSRP.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...n=5870&x=0&y=0

ZZF also lacks stock and their listings go as high as $60 over MSRP.

Granted these prices may be due to a soft launch.

Well, clearly the price on the 5800s is going up a bit, but I guess it's debatable on who's raising the price... Is it ATI or is it the retailers? ...does it really matter?

Either way, I don't think the cards were soft launched... I didn't exactly jump on one right after the release, and was able to get hold of one in a few days simply by clicking the "notify me" thing on newegg. Have you ever considered that the cards are just really popular?

 

[Idontcare]

Once again the conservative sandwich-heavy portfolio pays off for the hungry investor
-Dr. Zoidberg

I LOVE that quote, that whole episode is full of great real-life analogies with the 80's M&A guy.

 

[Grooveriding]

Newegg does not have any in stock, but their listings show each card at $10-$30 over MSRP.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...n=5870&x=0&y=0

ZZF also lacks stock and their listings go as high as $60 over MSRP.

Granted these prices may be due to a soft launch.

I had no problem getting two 5870s. They just sell out as soon as they come in stock. Stock comes in at the major etailors every day.. and sells out just as fast.

 

[nyker96]

if the 5xxx series are so hot now, I don't know what ati going to do when xmas comes around. even know they got a dx11 section monopolized, doesn't look like tsmc can make enough of those for amd to take advantage of it. maybe use the 45nm process from global foundry? or give Intel a ring, maybe they'd lend a hand with that advanced 32nm they got in the pipeline. :} just a thought.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Newegg does not have any in stock, but their listings show each card at $10-$30 over MSRP.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...n=5870&x=0&y=0

ZZF also lacks stock and their listings go as high as $60 over MSRP.

Granted these prices may be due to a soft launch.

I don't think it was a soft launch, cards were available the day of the launch, and pretty well were spotty, but appearing if you kept looking for the next few weeks after launch. I'm kicking myself for not jumping on one when they were easily available. I called one e-tailer, they stated that they'll have XFX 5850's/5870's tomorrow... we'll see I guess.

Now we hear that TSMC is having issues again on their 40nm process, this could explain why parts are hard to find weeks after the launch. The thing is, we don't know if when they do show up and sell out if it's a lot of 5 cards, 50 cards, or 500 cards. We just don't know the numbers. Whatever the numbers are, it's too bad for AMD that they're not meeting demand. However good this quarter might (they very well could have a bad quarter too) end up for them, it could have been better if they had more parts available.

 

[Via]

The 8800 GTX stayed over $500 WAY too long because it had no competition; ATI should raise their current prices more IMO since they didn't release at a higher price point.

And (as mentioned before) who can forget the 8800 GT fiasco, when Nvidia tried to undercut ATI with press releases promising an awesome sub $200 card - only to have none available under $250-$275 for months.

 

[Kraeoss]

aww damn i hope this is just a temoprary setback.... cant afford to go back on budget here now...

 

[Jaskalas]

aww damn i hope this is just a temoprary setback.... cant afford to go back on budget here now...

An entire human lifetime is "temporary" so perhaps you would like to specify. Prices will lower when supply outstretches demand or when competition is in effect. Currently there is a brand new card with HUGE demand, and no competition.

This is all on NVIDIA now. The ball to move this along is in their court.

 

[Kraeoss]

yea that's true...

 

[Idontcare]

Now we hear that TSMC is having issues again on their 40nm process, this could explain why parts are hard to find weeks after the launch.

Steve, I would go so far as to say it has everything to do with the current scarcity situation.

Consider that even if AMD had adequately projected the demand situation for Cypress-derived SKU's for Q4/09 they would have needed to start those wafers back in September timeframe (give them about 60days between wafer start and delivery to the AIBs who ordered them)...so having your yields decline and thus decreasing your supply of chips to the AIBs by nearly a third is not something AMD can react to in realtime.

The only reaction they can make to the supply-side of the equation is to request more wafer-starts at TSMC, but those wafers won't impact supply for another 2 months. So the only thing left is to monkey with the demand-side of the equation, which can be done near-immediately for any contracts that are being renewed or are under ongoing negotiations.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Steve, I would go so far as to say it has everything to do with the current scarcity situation.

Consider that even if AMD had adequately projected the demand situation for Cypress-derived SKU's for Q4/09 they would have needed to start those wafers back in September timeframe (give them about 60days between wafer start and delivery to the AIBs who ordered them)...so having your yields decline and thus decreasing your supply of chips to the AIBs by nearly a third is not something AMD can react to in realtime.

The only reaction they can make to the supply-side of the equation is to request more wafer-starts at TSMC, but those wafers won't impact supply for another 2 months. So the only thing left is to monkey with the demand-side of the equation, which can be done near-immediately for any contracts that are being renewed or are under ongoing negotiations.

Sure, I understand that it's not like AMD orders the wafers on Monday then they have GPU's to give to their partners by Friday. Maybe I don't understand how it all works as I'm not in 'the industry' but I assumed (yea, I know what happens when I assume ) that AMD would have some sort of contract with TSMC that they could order so many wafers at some kind of gauranteed yield on their production parts? It could be possible that TSMC is having problems getting the parts out to even fill AMD's initial order, couldn't it? Maybe before launch AMD would put in another order as AIB's wanted more parts, but they couldn't get the chips? Maybe AMD just totally guessed wrong on demand and screwed themselves out of sales? Just going through a few scenarios that I could see occurring. Though maybe I'm wrong about how the contracts on dice ordering/wafer ordering works.

 

[Idontcare]

Sure, I understand that it's not like AMD orders the wafers on Monday then they have GPU's to give to their partners by Friday. Maybe I don't understand how it all works as I'm not in 'the industry' but I assumed (yea, I know what happens when I assume ) that AMD would have some sort of contract with TSMC that they could order so many wafers at some kind of gauranteed yield on their production parts? It could be possible that TSMC is having problems getting the parts out to even fill AMD's initial order, couldn't it? Maybe before launch AMD would put in another order as AIB's wanted more parts, but they couldn't get the chips? Maybe AMD just totally guessed wrong on demand and screwed themselves out of sales? Just going through a few scenarios that I could see occurring. Though maybe I'm wrong about how the contracts on dice ordering/wafer ordering works.

My interpretation of your post above is that you felt my previous post contradicted you and your earlier post...my post was intended to say that I think you have it right (and I was merely adding more weight to the already established reasoning put forward by yourself).

 

[BladeVenom]

Well, clearly the price on the 5800s is going up a bit, but I guess it's debatable on who's raising the price... Is it ATI or is it the retailers? ...does it really matter?

Either way, I don't think the cards were soft launched... I didn't exactly jump on one right after the release, and was able to get hold of one in a few days simply by clicking the "notify me" thing on newegg. Have you ever considered that the cards are just really popular?

Demand has outstripped supply, so you're right, if AMD didn't raise prices retailers would have. If retailer didn't then ebay hoarders would have bought them all up and prices would have been even higher.

I'd rather see AMD make the money, after all they've been losing money for a long time. At least they are making their money honestly.

 

[Nemesis 1]

I do think it is like a bait and switch scam. Have one MSRP for when all the reviews come out and you have very few cards to sell at that price. Then up the price later, knowing that most reviews won't change the pricing info.

Ya I agree with you for first time in history. Its kinda like the $650 NV card that NV lowered price on because ATI 4000 seies was so good . NV had to cut pricies. A reverse bait and switch so to speak. Would you like me to get a quote from that time period and see what you had to say about NV $650 card and how it was worth every theiving red cent. Would you like that. Bait and switch . LOL. If anything ATI should have moved right into the $650 price range.

 

[SlowSpyder]

My interpretation of your post above is that you felt my previous post contradicted you and your earlier post...my post was intended to say that I think you have it right (and I was merely adding more weight to the already established reasoning put forward by yourself).

Yup, I did... you know why? Because I can't read. I read your earlier post as "I wouldn't" when you clearly said "I would". I'm going to blame 'getting old' on this one. Now where did that beer icon go...?

 

[lopri]

I pre-ordered an XFX 5850 for $266 @amazon. At least Amazon doesn't charge prior to shipping and I'm not in a hurry so will see.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Or it could be that ATI made deal with dell to buy a hugh supply . Than latter ATI pays Dell not to sell NV cards . Dell makes ALL its money from rebates didn't you know that. And ATI/AMD is so strong that they could buy out the market Like Intel did to AMD and still turn in Billion dollar profit every qt. I believe in God which many reject. But GOD is way more believable than the BS fling around a few threads here.