That's well and truly in the past (and has nothing to do with ATi). Besides, nVidia stated their objections to 3dmark03 (bribemark03 - we still don't know how much money ATi "contributed" to 3dmark03's development, and where was the partial precision support - part of DX9, and 3dmark03 was "the definitive DX9 benchmark"...) before the implimented thier "optimizations" for it. I don't see how anyone can claim nVidia didn't say they weren't going to cheat in that particular case.
That's well and truly in the past (and has nothing to do with ATi). Besides, nVidia stated their objections to 3dmark03 (bribemark03 - we still don't know how much money ATi "contributed" to 3dmark03's development, and where was the partial precision support - part of DX9, and 3dmark03 was "the definitive DX9 benchmark"...) before the implimented thier "optimizations" for it. I don't see how anyone can claim nVidia didn't say they weren't going to cheat in that particular case.
First of all, I don't need to prove anything about Nvidia authoring the document. You are the one that has been beating that dead horse. You have comments from ATi PR laying a smackdown on Nvidia/SLI. ATi sure as hell thinks it's from Nvidia and responded as such and that says a whole lot more than Ackmed's stuck record about "but there's no proof it's from Nvidia" which is irrelevant anyway. I'm just posting what people have actually admitted to saying.
The burden of "proof" that you are so passionately seeking is not that Nvidia created the document. Why is it so hard for you to understand that the comments from ATi are legit regardless of the original source of the document? If somebody slapped you but nobody saw who it was but you turned around and slapped the guy who you think slapped you, if there's no proof of who slapped you, does that make you slapping the other guy any less real? Hope you can follow that - it's late and I'm drunk!!
Yeah, damn that man for spreading the truth and news..
I CANT LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE ATI IS INFINITELY PERFECT AND NVIDIA SUXZORZ WITH YOU AROUND ROLLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DIE! DIE DIE!
Trinibwoy, the entire document and drama surrounding it came from ATi and noone else.
Even *if* this document existed before it was allegedly passed on to ATi noone was saying anything about it.
ATi are the ones who have tried to make a bige deal out of it all, nobody else.
Even *if* this document existed before it was allegedly passed on to ATi noone was saying anything about it.
ATi are the ones who have tried to make a bige deal out of it all, nobody else.
Was just checking out the happenings at Beyond3d and saw this posted:
What BZB (one of the more rabid ATi supporters @ B3D) fails to comprehend is the "the opposition" have not been saying bad things about "your product" - in fact they haven't mentioned you AT ALL!!!
Whoops, there goes another "justification" up in flames, never mind the fact that if nVidia were in ATi's current position, BZB would be one of those screaming for boycotts, shutdown of nVidia etc at the top of his lungs. Funny how this magically doesn't apply to ATi (for lots of people not just BZB)...
What BZB (one of the more rabid ATi supporters @ B3D) fails to comprehend is the "the opposition" have not been saying bad things about "your product" - in fact they haven't mentioned you AT ALL!!!
Whoops, there goes another "justification" up in flames, never mind the fact that if nVidia were in ATi's current position, BZB would be one of those screaming for boycotts, shutdown of nVidia etc at the top of his lungs. Funny how this magically doesn't apply to ATi (for lots of people not just BZB)...
Dave is very level headed. If you cant post there, Id say its for a good reason.
In any event... this topic was on its way out, its done for me.
edit for spelling. My dang A key doesnt work very often!!!!!
In any event... this topic was on its way out, its done for me.
edit for spelling. My dang A key doesnt work very often!!!!!
The people at nVNews are very level headed, does the fact that you've been permanently banned from there mean "its for good reason", Ackmed?
The people at Sharky are level headed, and warned me a couple times to stop calling people bragging about their number of RMAs "scum" and "thieves", but I persisted and was banned there. For me, the ethics of the point outweighed the value of my ability to post there.
Point A: You don't know the circumstances of his ban, so you can't comment.
Point B:Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
He's very knowledgable and you're right when people are banned it's usually for a good reason. The only problem is that those reasons don't apply to ATi's lemmings, they can be as belligerent and disruptive and will be safe. Every single person who has been banned from B3D that I know of since I joined has been someone that either is supportive of Nvidia or critical of ATi. Coincidence?
It's no secret Dave has pretty tight vendor relations with ATI, but he is very knowledgeable and I've always enjoyed discussing things with him. (going back to 3dfx Gamers days)
You could well be right though, I'd probably get the ban for my anti-R420 stance.
You are very wrong. Dave and I had lots of disagreements on floating point precision, partial precision and shader replacements. He tried arguing that shader replacements were unacceptable because "they might alter the developers art assets in unexpected ways". I then asked him to please explain ATi's Doom3 replacement shader. At that point I was banned, with snide comments from Dave and ATi engineers following in the thread.
And I've been here just as long as you (probably longer), post wise and time wise. And I've seen both ATI and Nvidia making digs at each other throughout the years.
Nvidia hasn't been putting down ATI products since the NV30? Obviously you missed THIS little NV slideshow from last year.
How about that? Nvidia putting down ATI. ATI putting down Nvidia.
Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
You are right. I hadn't seen that presentation. However the information in it didn't look too misleading to me at least on the surface (don't really follow the low-end that closely).
Perhaps since you've been here as long as me, you will remember Intel engineers on these forums trying to convince people not to purchase Athlon cpu's and the stand I took aginst them?
I don't particuarly care who the companies in question are - if I find a company trying to mislead the public I'll roast them, be they VIA Intel, ATi XGi or whoever.
Perhaps since you've been here as long as me, you will remember Intel engineers on these forums trying to convince people not to purchase Athlon cpu's and the stand I took aginst them?
I don't particuarly care who the companies in question are - if I find a company trying to mislead the public I'll roast them, be they VIA Intel, ATi XGi or whoever.
I believe you 100%. Right down to the nVidia quote in your sig.
No fanboi here. Move along.
exec excuse.cfg
Hint for you. ATi's anti-aliasing document clearly lies (as do most of their PR documents). The linked document appears to be stating facts. There is a large difference. Sorry if you can't see it.
I haven't said companies are not entitled compare their products to each other - there is nothing wrong with that, so long as the information is correct.
If you look through the Nv slides I posted in my link, you'll see that in some they use overall benchmarks as a comparison (which is correct) and ONLY Doom 3 in others (which isn't).
To me, that's misleading.
C'mon you guys if you weren't going to buy from any company that attempted to mislead you or trash the competition then I don't see you buying anything for a while. Marketing is misleading, just don't trust it the marketers, look at benchmarks from a trustworthy source and quit arguing over what companies marketers are more ethical.
Why?
So long as the Doom3 scores are accurate there is nothing misleading going on at all, unless they are *clearly trying to say all games on the slide in question and then only providing Doom3 scores*.
So long as the Doom3 scores are accurate there is nothing misleading going on at all, unless they are *clearly trying to say all games on the slide in question and then only providing Doom3 scores*.
Because when comparing the 6600GT to the X700Pro, Nv used a whole collection of different games/resolutions to prove that the 6600GT is better than the X700Pro. That's the correct way to do it.
http://img68.exs.cx/img68/3928/8162.jpg
But when comparing the 5200/5500 to the 9250, they used only Doom 3.
http://img68.exs.cx/img68/1056/8157.jpg
When comparing the 6800U/X800XT, 6800GT/X800Pro, 6600GT/X700Pro and 6600/X700, they used only Doom 3.
http://img68.exs.cx/img68/492/8160.jpg
If they could provide a whole slew of benchmarks to prove that the 6600GT is better than the X700Pro, why did they only use Doom 3 to "prove" that Nvidia cards are better than their ATI counterparts?
You don't find that curious omission of overall benchmarks to be misleading?
rise
Diamond Member
- Dec 13, 2004
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i don't get it creig. none of your links appear to be misleading. they clearly state what they are comparing. whats the problem?
because they didn't want to or couldn't or didn't feel like it? who cares all they are saying is its faster in doom3 and they showed that neat little graph with the "fastest selling pc game ever" line and all. who cares. its not misleading. people can read whatever they want into it, doesn't mean they were mislead.
of course anyone accepting benches from a vendor to me is a bit crazy anyway, but thats besides the point.
because they didn't want to or couldn't or didn't feel like it? who cares all they are saying is its faster in doom3 and they showed that neat little graph with the "fastest selling pc game ever" line and all. who cares. its not misleading. people can read whatever they want into it, doesn't mean they were mislead.
of course anyone accepting benches from a vendor to me is a bit crazy anyway, but thats besides the point.
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