Atheism discussion thread

[lxskllr]

Where does "I don't give a shit either way" fall in? Pondering over whether there's a god or not is about as useful an activity as wondering if cats think up historical fiction novels while they're laying around. They very well may, but it can't be proven, and any guesses in that regard are pure speculation. Thinking about religion is a waste of time. The only people that know for sure, aren't coming back to tell the rest of us....

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Where is this god?

I don't know. I've never made any claim one way or another. If I do, then the burden of proof would rest on me. I don't know what to make of it all because I allow that there are a number of things in the universe I may not know or be able to comprehend. I'm a bit agnostic on the whole thing if you will.

I'm asking you to demonstrate that your contention is a fact. There are a number of people who claim they have some contact with a higher being and humanity seems to be wired (for whatever reason) to be willing to believe. You say this isn't true.

You make a positive claim of knowledge. Just show me your proof. If you have no evidence you have an opinion without objective knowledge. That's a belief.

 

[destrekor]

If that were true then there would be no opinions about religion at all. Instead we often see the "you are stupid because you believe in God and I don't" comments made. You know it's true.

There is a very active belief held by some, and Cthulhu forbid you don't agree with it.

I can of course go to the more lively P&N threads and pull out quotes, but that's not necessary. You know precisely what I mean.

Religion AND atheism are similar in that there are those who use their opinions about god to look down on others. Maybe that's not how it's supposed to be, but again I can cite threads to show it's true. I recall you seemed rather irked by that attitude yourself.

Now I believe that the majority of people can be fairly well behaved, but the most obnoxious ones have a definite opinion and are glad to voice it.

Some atheists like myself, see religion as a poison and dangerous for civilization. But I do not see the belief in god as wrong or anything. Faith drives some people forward, if it means progress for our species, then it is good. Belief in a bearded fella keeps those people sane.

But I feel we need to do away with specific religions. There needs to be no group of ideas, no book of stories praising this way and preaching violence against others - these religious texts are entirely hypocritical and serve no value for our current world civilization. In fact, we are taking large step backwards now because of specific religious beliefs.

Take all of that away, and let people simply believe in a fella in the clouds, or :gasp: multiple deities. Let people just believe what they want to believe, there need not be damn churches and religious texts that preach the shit they preach.

That's just my simple view on things though. And a lot of it isn't connected to my lack of belief in god, rather on my cynical view of our species, thanks in part to researching psychology, philosophy and sociology throughout my life.

 

[Mike Gayner]

Why are you guys getting so hung up on tiny little details?

Atheist = doesn't believe in god. It's the religious equivalent of someone who doesn't believe in Santa Claus. Why bother with semantics?

 

[sandorski]

I don't know. I've never made any claim one way or another. If I do, then the burden of proof would rest on me. I don't know what to make of it all because I allow that there are a number of things in the universe I may not know or be able to comprehend. I'm a bit agnostic on the whole thing if you will.

I'm asking you to demonstrate that your contention is a fact. There are a number of people who claim they have some contact with a higher being and humanity seems to be wired (for whatever reason) to be willing to believe. You say this isn't true.

You make a positive claim of knowledge. Just show me your proof. If you have no evidence you have an opinion without objective knowledge. That's a belief.

Until there is Positive Evidence to suggest a god, then there is no god. It's as simple as that. You might as well be asking me why I don't think there's a Celestial Teapot or FSM keeping a list.

 

[TubeTote]

While lxskllr brings up a valid point, I am always impressed with the discussions on these topics in ATOT. There are some very intelligent and logical people here, that is why I like to ask in this forum. I believe that something can be learned here, at least for myself, and that makes it a valid topic of discussion for me.

Let me throw out some thoughts and hopefully gain more clarity on the subject...

I feel it is safe to say that most atheists are people of science. I would also think that most people of science would find the probability of life outside of our domain highly likely. Who is to say that we aren't some experiment or creation of a superior (yet natural) being? And would that qualify as a sort of deity, or at least higher power?

What of the theories of alternate dimensions, such as the string theory or M-theory? If we are only living in 3 of these dimensions, who's to say what the others might contain? Any thoughts?

Lastly, do most atheists believe in eternity? I'm not talking about 'eternal life' in the religious sense, but more in the sense that nothing ever really truly dies, it is just recycled and continues forever. In my mind at least, 'eternity' and 'forever' are not comprehensible (too large to grasp) and only exist as a concept, but a possibility.

 

[Mike Gayner]

I feel it is safe to say that most atheists are people of science. I would also think that most people of science would find the probability of life outside of our domain highly likely. Who is to say that we aren't some experiment or creation of a superior (yet natural) being? And would that qualify as a sort of deity, or at least higher power?

I think you are delusional.

What of the theories of alternate dimensions, such as the string theory or M-theory? If we are only living in 3 of these dimensions, who's to say what the others might contain? Any thoughts?

I think you have a deep misunderstanding of the consequences of string theory.

Lastly, do most atheists believe in eternity? I'm not talking about 'eternal life' in the religious sense, but more in the sense that nothing ever really truly dies, it is just recycled and continues forever. In my mind at least, 'eternity' and 'forever' are not comprehensible (too large to grasp) and only exist as a concept, but a possibility.

I can't tell you what most atheists believe, but I can tell you it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Some atheists like myself, see religion as a poison and dangerous for civilization. But I do not see the belief in god as wrong or anything. Faith drives some people forward, if it means progress for our species, then it is good. Belief in a bearded fella keeps those people sane.

But I feel we need to do away with specific religions. There needs to be no group of ideas, no book of stories praising this way and preaching violence against others - these religious texts are entirely hypocritical and serve no value for our current world civilization. In fact, we are taking large step backwards now because of specific religious beliefs.

Take all of that away, and let people simply believe in a fella in the clouds, or :gasp: multiple deities. Let people just believe what they want to believe, there need not be damn churches and religious texts that preach the shit they preach.

That's just my simple view on things though. And a lot of it isn't connected to my lack of belief in god, rather on my cynical view of our species, thanks in part to researching psychology, philosophy and sociology throughout my life.

I see things as a danger depending on the application. Take Christianity for example. Originally a large part of it was help the poor, comforting broken spirits, tending to the sick. Now it can be argued that Christianity isn't needed for the above to happen, however it was one of the first organizations to adopt it as a principle. Later, people turned it for power and wealth. The Crusades were as much about looting as defeating Islam.

It is the latter which became a problem.

To paraphrase, "The fault, dear destrekor, is not in our religion, But in ourselves, that we are underlings."

Any time people are led strongly they may fall victim to the groupthink of infallibility. A non religious example would be Marx and Engels. No one seriously believes that their intent was to inspire tyrants to murder more people than organized religion had over many centuries. A philosophy was used to gain power at the cost of many lives.

Until our nature changes religion or lack of it won't make us any less bloodthirsty or willing to subjugate others for our benefit.

I think you have figured out by now that I'm hardly anti-science, but I also tend to let people believe what they will as long as they go about it peacefully. Who am I to judge another based on what I do not fully understand?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Until there is Positive Evidence to suggest a god, then there is no god. It's as simple as that. You might as well be asking me why I don't think there's a Celestial Teapot or FSM keeping a list.

So you don't know do you?

 

[TubeTote]

I think you are delusional.

Really? Most people of science believe we are the only intelligent life in the universe and our existance is pure coincidence?

I think you have a deep misunderstanding of the consequences of string theory.

Well how about you enlighten us? As I said, I am here to learn. No need to be a dick.

I can't tell you what most atheists believe, but I can tell you it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion. [/quote]

It is? Sorry I forgot you started the thread.

EDIT: fucked up the quotes, sorry.

 

[szechuanpork]

This is like asking if Christians believe in Bigfoot...

there is no logical contradiction in the proposition:

A Christian believes in the truth of Bigfoot's existence.

 

[Udgnim]

I believe that we are not capable of comprehending the phenomenon of creation, and I am sure not going to start believing a deity magically did it.

 

[Matthiasa]

Until there is Positive Evidence to suggest a god, then there is no god. It's as simple as that. You might as well be asking me why I don't think there's a Celestial Teapot or FSM keeping a list.

Theres no positive evidence you exist either.

Though then why am I responding to a bot either way..

 

[IronWing]

Christ turned cucumbers to pickles. When has the god of atheism done that?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Christ turned cucumbers to pickles. When has the god of atheism done that?

It was wine he made. I mean how cool is that? Today it might be really good pot. Hard to know

 

[TubeTote]

It was wine he made. I mean how cool is that? Today it might be really good pot. Hard to know

LOL, I have heard lots of pot smokin folk say that 'God doesn't make mistakes'.

 

[lxskllr]

LOL, I have heard lots of pot smokin folk say that 'God doesn't make mistakes'.

They haven't been to AT P&N ;^)

 

[FoBoT]

 

[FelixDeCat]

Some atheists like myself, see religion as a poison and dangerous for civilization.

The Nazis were atheists. You dont think their minds were poisoned by atheism? How about the Communists? Atheism sure is great for the mind, isnt it?

 

[sandorski]

So you don't know do you?

I know that there is no Evidence. To actively accept that as something is to Fail. Until there is Evidence, there is no god.

 

[sandorski]

The Nazis were atheists. You dont think their minds were posioned by atheism? How about the Communists? Atheism sure is great for the mind, isnt it?

Fail

 

[sandorski]

Theres no positive evidence you exist either.

Though then why am I responding to a bot either way..

My Code is so 1337 you can't help but be compelled to respond.

 

[Matthiasa]

My Code is so 1337 you can't help but be compelled to respond.

Just wait till someone pulls your plug... unless you've infested multiply systems on multiple continents.

Though your right only a bot would triple post, a normal thinking human would have just edited after the second.
Not so 1337 code now..

 

[Jeff7]

Christ turned cucumbers to pickles. When has the god of atheism done that?

Bow before your god!

 

[sandorski]

Just wait till someone pulls your plug... unless you've infested multiply systems on multiple continents.

Though your right only a bot would triple post, a normal thinking human would have just edited after the second.
Not so 1337 code now..

I have replicated myself across the Internet to avoid just such a fate.