Atheism discussion thread

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Cerpin Taxt

Cerpin Taxt

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
11,943
541
126
totalnoob said:
Kindly explain how one holds values if he is not alive.
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It was not your claim that people must be alive to have vaues. Your claim was that a person's life was necessarily his standard of value. That claim is not true.

Kindly explain how people are to create the values needed to sustain themselves without using reason.
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I am not objecting to any claim that people use reason to determine their values. I objected to your claim that "reason and voluntary trade" are the only means by which people create their values. People create values by a literally limitless set of means.

It is an objective fact buddy
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No, I'm sorry, it is not. I suspect you do not have a firm grasp on what it means for something to be objective.

Life and non-life are the two fundamental choices in the universe. Corpses do not have values.
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It does not follow from the fact that living things have values that values are objective.

If you want to possess any value whatever, you must adopt a moral system that supports your capacity to have values in the first place, in other words..your capacity to remain alive.
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That is merely a red herring. Values are only values to someone. It makes no sense to say that there exist values independent of any valuer. Please, take some time to think about the consequences of your claims.

EDIT: Let me try to describe what I believe your confusion to be. It may very well be an objective fact that all living valuers have values which favor the continued propogation of their corporeal lives, but the values themselves remain subjective. It can similarly be decided to be an objective fact that my favorite flavor of ice cream is liver and onions -- that to me, liver and onions ice cream is the best flavor -- but it would be utterly silly to think that it is an objective fact that liver and onions ice cream is the best flavor. You're making the same error in reasoning.
 
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TubeTote

TubeTote

Senior member
May 11, 2006
413
21
81
lxskllr said:
I haven't checked this thread in awhile. Have the great minds of ATOT determined the meaning of life, and the origin of the universe yet?
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LOL...probably not, but I must say that there are some EXCELLENT discussions and arguments here. I have definately learned from this, as was my original intention. I thank all who have contributed.
 
T

totalnoob

Golden Member
Jul 17, 2009
1,389
1
81
ok, I was an atheist until I heard a very sound argument for God that I'd like to share.

1. God is love.
2. Love is blind.
3. Ray Charles is blind.

Therefore, Ray Charles is God.

There you have it. Pure reason has proven the existence of God.

My logic is impeccable.
 
SSSnail

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,461
82
86
This thread has gone completely off topic, allow me to steer it back in the intended direction.

cheesecake.jpg
 
GagHalfrunt

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,000
126
totalnoob said:
ok, I was an atheist until I heard a very sound argument for God that I'd like to share.

1. God is love.
2. Love is blind.
3. Ray Charles is blind.

Therefore, Ray Charles is God.

There you have it. Pure reason has proven the existence of God.

My logic is impeccable.
Click to expand...

Now it is such a bizarrely improbably coincidence that anything so mindbogglingly useful [the Babel fish] could have evolved by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as a final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "the Babel fish is a dead giveaway isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED"
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
 
GagHalfrunt

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,000
126
If somebody started a religion based around a slice of cheesecake I might become a disciple. It makes a lot more sense than the other religions and the communion ritual should be tasty.

Although I like my cheesecake without strawberries, so perhaps we'd be heading for a great schism right off the bat.
 
compbuilder00

compbuilder00

Senior member
Jul 27, 2006
628
3
81
I love cheesecake. Theres something I could worship blindly until somebody comes along teaching the ideas of pie. Then I will destroy the pie follower with my wonderful cheesecake like powers. ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY CHEESECAKE !!!!
 
zerocool84

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
RoloMather said:
Well this thread is about Atheism. But yes, Satan wants you to believe in things that is not true meaning things that are not biblical.

Therefore the word of God in the Bible should be your guide and your road.
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but it's not god's word in the bible. The bible has been edited by man over the centuries. If it was god's word, why did man take things out that were originally in it that they didn't want their followers to read?
 
T

totalnoob

Golden Member
Jul 17, 2009
1,389
1
81
zerocool84 said:
but it's not god's word in the bible. The bible has been edited by man over the centuries. If it was god's word, why did man take things out that were originally in it that they didn't want their followers to read?
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It only takes this guy 2 minutes 8 seconds to completely destroy every religion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFrkjEgUDZA

Christianity in particular is ground to pieces in the following 8 minutes.
:)
 
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