Atheism discussion thread

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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
I know that there is no Evidence. To actively accept that as something is to Fail. Until there is Evidence, there is no god.

You mean there is no laboratory data to support the contention one way or another. Because you haven't seen a deity under a microscope, god doesn't exist, and you say so definitively.

Now you bring up random examples and might say that because a flying spaghetti monster hasn't been seen it has the same likeliness of being true or false as a god. The difference is that people still claim to have experiences regarding the latter, but I haven't seen a FSM cult recently.

When something persists over all time, cultures and demographics, it would be rather imprudent to claim that there can be no basis for any belief because god hasn't volunteered to be put under your microscope. Does that mean that I believe? I haven't an opinion one way or another because I lack data. That doesn't mean I view what billions believe as genuine as being the same as any randomly blurted phrase.

Clearly you believe that you are right. You dismiss all out of hand, have no evidence one way or another, and say that without Evidence god does not exist.

The latter statement sounds like a quantum interpretation of the universe at large. Techtonic plates didn't exist before there was Evidence. X-rays didn't exist before Evidence.

For thousands of years great minds have pondered the question of god, and yet you know what all the rest of them could not.

I'm in awe.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,784
6,343
126
You mean there is no laboratory data to support the contention one way or another. Because you haven't seen a deity under a microscope, god doesn't exist, and you say so definitively.

Now you bring up random examples and might say that because a flying spaghetti monster hasn't been seen it has the same likeliness of being true or false as a god. The difference is that people still claim to have experiences regarding the latter, but I haven't seen a FSM cult recently.

When something persists over all time, cultures and demographics, it would be rather imprudent to claim that there can be no basis for any belief because god hasn't volunteered to be put under your microscope. Does that mean that I believe? I haven't an opinion one way or another because I lack data. That doesn't mean I view what billions believe as genuine as being the same as any randomly blurted phrase.

Clearly you believe that you are right. You dismiss all out of hand, have no evidence one way or another, and say that without Evidence god does not exist.

The latter statement sounds like a quantum interpretation of the universe at large. Techtonic plates didn't exist before there was Evidence. X-rays didn't exist before Evidence.

For thousands of years great minds have pondered the question of god, and yet you know what all the rest of them could not.

I'm in awe.

They are simply wrong. Monotheists, Polytheists, Non-Theists all have the same Experiences. They incorrectly attribute an Experience to something they have no Evidence for. The Experience is Self Induced and is literally all in one's head.

You should be in awe, for I have stated the Truth as it stands. Find out for yourself.
 
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lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
60,060
10,547
126
For thousands of years great minds have pondered the question of god, and yet you know what all the rest of them could not.

I'm in awe.

...and for all those thousands of years of thought, we're not even a microstep farther forward in understanding. Just as I said. It might be an interesting amusement to ponder the possibilities, but in the end, it's all pointless.
 

El Guaraguao

Diamond Member
May 7, 2008
3,468
5
81
The Nazis were atheists. You dont think their minds were poisoned by atheism? How about the Communists? Atheism sure is great for the mind, isnt it?


Holy shit. I cant tell if your fucking around or not, with such a statement. You REALLY cant be serious when you say that all Nazis were atheist. Come on man, you really cant be that retarded? If you really stand by such a retardation of a statement, you sir have lost all respect from me. Im sorry, but I would have to categorize you next to garbage, for making such a statement. :(
 

FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
31,014
2,683
126
Holy shit. I cant tell if your fucking around or not, with such a statement. You REALLY cant be serious when you say that all Nazis were atheist. Come on man, you really cant be that retarded? If you really stand by such a retardation of a statement, you sir have lost all respect from me. Im sorry, but I would have to categorize you next to garbage, for making such a statement. :(

Of course they were.
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
81
When something persists over all time, cultures and demographics, it would be rather imprudent to claim that there can be no basis for any belief because god hasn't volunteered to be put under your microscope. Does that mean that I believe? I haven't an opinion one way or another because I lack data. That doesn't mean I view what billions believe as genuine as being the same as any randomly blurted phrase.
I see it as something of a systemic anomaly, a bug in our programming. Kind of like the whole "monsters under the bed" fear that kids have, a fear of some threatening entity for which there is no tangible evidence - my take on it is that it's that little "voice" we evolved long ago that constantly says, "Watch out for predators!"
We don't have huge claws, we don't have large, sharp teeth, we don't have a shell, we don't have excellent hearing, and we can't run terribly fast. We're just a big brain wrapped in squishy, highly-edible flesh, exactly the sort of thing a quick predator would love to find.

As for our propensity to assign every action to some life form (giant whales that cause tides, a human-like thing to carry the Sun across the sky, and so on), I'm not sure exactly where that comes from.
Pondering.........I guess it's easier to assign responsibility for actions to things which are known.
"Oh, I know what causes the tides! It's a really big whale far away, flapping its tail!"
- "But what if the Moon were really massive, and it exerted some kind of invisible force on Earth, and that was what causes the tides?"
"Dude, you've been smoking some crazy shit again, haven't you?"

"Oh, I know what makes the Sun move across the sky! It's a person thing, on a chariot, and the Sun is a ball of fire."
- "I think the Sun is a huge ball of superheated gas, millions of miles away, fueled by crushing together tiny particles."
"Far out, man....far out."


Knowledge replaces religion and its blind faith, simple as that. As our quest for knowledge causes light to be shone into the darkness of the unknown, religion needs to keep retreating to the safety of the shadows.
 
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FelixDeCat

Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
31,014
2,683
126
Knowledge replaces religion and its blind faith, simple as that. As our quest for knowledge causes light to be shone into the darkness of the unknown, religion needs to keep retreating to the safety of the shadows.

Thats funny, I dont remember any announcements at mass about Catholicism retreating. I do remember them asking us to pray for the end of abortion and a call for ethical medical research that respects life.

And as far as my faith being blind, quite the opposite is true. I have seen enough evidence of Gods existance throughout my life. Not to mention the angels that serve us on his behalf, like our former family members. ():)
 

Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
6,933
7
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Thats funny, I dont remember any announcements at mass about Catholicism retreating. I do remember them asking us to pray for the end of abortion and a call for ethical medical research that respects life.

And as far as my faith being blind, quite the opposite is true. I have seen enough evidence of Gods existance throughout my life. Not to mention the angels that serve us on his behalf, like our former family members. ():)

Smoking your bong again?
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
As an atheist I have no interest in discussing atheism. Science? Yes. Skepticism? Yes. The stupidity of religion? Yes. But I as much interest in discussing atheism as I have in discussing my disbelief in the tooth fairy.

Now that's just silly. Atheism is just the opposite side of the coin to the big question we all have ... "What is the meaning of our lives?".
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
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Thats funny, I dont remember any announcements at mass about Catholicism retreating.
They went back on their stance on Galileo.
They went back on their stance on evolution.
That's what comes to mind immediately, anyway.
And of course Catholicism itself is a subdivision of Christianity because they couldn't agree with some aspects of the base religion.

Other than that, I'm talking about the wider trends, such as the samples I gave earlier. Yes, there was a part of the world where they really did think that a giant whale caused the tides. Yes, in ancient Egypt, the Sun was pulled across the sky by someone in a chariot. Yes, in ancient Greece, a big person was responsible for holding "up" Earth.
These old explanations are no longer needed.
The Moon's gravitational interaction with Earth causes the tides. No great whale has ever been found.
The Sun doesn't even move across the sky, Earth instead orbits a distant star. No creature with a chariot has ever been seen towing either body along.
Earth doesn't need to be held up, as it generates its own gravity, and our satellites haven't spotted this alleged large person who's holding the planet.
Religion's track record on accuracy isn't too good.


I do remember them asking us to pray for the end of abortion and a call for ethical medical research that respects life.
Well, ok, they ask you to do stuff that matches their beliefs. I don't know why they're asking God to do something about our legislation, but, whatever. I didn't know he even had a vote in Congress. You can pray, or you can actually do something which genuinely does affect reality.


And as far as my faith being blind, quite the opposite is true. I have seen enough evidence of Gods existance throughout my life. Not to mention the angels that serve us on his behalf, like our former family members. ():)
Well, if you've seen it, well, I can't do anything about that. Thus far, I've not seen or experienced anything even remotely close to even suggesting a possibility of there being a likelihood of there perhaps being any kind of spiritual realm, or angels, or whatever stuff like that. As far as I'm concerned, once relatives die, they're gone quite exceptionally permanently, save for a decaying corpse in the ground, photographs, and memories we have of them. And there's the implications of voyeurism that are just kind of creepy. Oh, and there's also the fact that bad things constantly happen to good people. "Phew, my guardian angel was looking out for me," said the lone survivor of a plane crash which killed 100 other people. Guess their angels were slacking that day.


Hell, just the fact that there have been billions of dead people thus far, many more than the current living population of Earth, seems to be evidence enough that they aren't influencing this world's living population. If even a small portion of them interacted with us on a regular basis, I think our system of physics laws would have utterly collapsed long ago, due to constant inconsistencies caused by interventions of dead people.
 

Mike Gayner

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2007
6,175
3
0
Now that's just silly. Atheism is just the opposite side of the coin to the big question we all have ... "What is the meaning of our lives?".

Speak for yourself - I don't ask myself that question. In fact, most rational people don't, because we have no reason to believe our lives are meaningful at all. Self-important, narcissistic religious zealots on the other hand....
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,284
1,998
126
Gravity and light. :p

You left out electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force. Oh yeah, and chocolate, I firmly believe in the power of chocolate.

This is pretty simple, religion is bupkis. Period. It's all junk, it's all fantasy, it's all pure 100% high-grade, unadulterated bullshit. Catholic and Jew, Muslim and Hindu, Druid and Wikkan, Scientology and Hare Krishna, they're all completely delusional and anyone with a brain and a desire for the truth can see where the lies began and how they were perpetuated.

But the fact that religion is all crap and lies does not in and of itself disprove the existence of some higher power. For that, I rely on the simple challenge of skeptics: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If you believe in something supposedly all powerful yet have not a single shred of evidence to support it you're monumentally stupid. If there is some guiding power it created my brain and the ability to use it and it must want me to not believe in it, otherwise it would provide the proof that logical and intelligent beings require. If it's there and wants me to change my mind, it has the power to make me and it surely has my phone number. Since it never called I can only conclude that it isn't there. Or that it doesn't want me to believe in it, so either way, it's the same. I don't believe in it.
 

Sea Moose

Diamond Member
May 12, 2009
6,933
7
76
You left out electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force. Oh yeah, and chocolate, I firmly believe in the power of chocolate.

This is pretty simple, religion is bupkis. Period. It's all junk, it's all fantasy, it's all pure 100% high-grade, unadulterated bullshit. Catholic and Jew, Muslim and Hindu, Druid and Wikkan, Scientology and Hare Krishna, they're all completely delusional and anyone with a brain and a desire for the truth can see where the lies began and how they were perpetuated.

But the fact that religion is all crap and lies does not in and of itself disprove the existence of some higher power. For that, I rely on the simple challenge of skeptics: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. If you believe in something supposedly all powerful yet have not a single shred of evidence to support it you're monumentally stupid. If there is some guiding power it created my brain and the ability to use it and it must want me to not believe in it, otherwise it would provide the proof that logical and intelligent beings require. If it's there and wants me to change my mind, it has the power to make me and it surely has my phone number. Since it never called I can only conclude that it isn't there. Or that it doesn't want me to believe in it, so either way, it's the same. I don't believe in it.

This wins the thread.

You may have a slice of pie.


key-lime-pie-sl-1206119-l.jpg
 

Jeff7

Lifer
Jan 4, 2001
41,596
20
81
You left out electromagnetism, the strong nuclear force and the weak nuclear force. Oh yeah, and chocolate, I firmly believe in the power of chocolate.
I believe in intelligent atomic bonding.


This is pretty simple, religion is bupkis. Period. It's all junk, it's all fantasy, it's all pure 100% high-grade, unadulterated bullshit. Catholic and Jew, Muslim and Hindu, Druid and Wikkan, Scientology and Hare Krishna, they're all completely delusional and anyone with a brain and a desire for the truth can see where the lies began and how they were perpetuated.
It's some entertaining stuff though! From the Wiki page on Horus:
Horus was born to the goddess Isis after she retrieved all the dismembered body parts of her murdered husband Osiris, except his penis which was thrown into the Nile and eaten by a catfish, and used her magic powers to resurrect Osiris and fashion a gold phallus to conceive her Horus.
So evidently gods reproduce sexually, and have no qualms about using chopped up pieces of a dead person to do the deed....and of course a hand-made golden penis. Frankenstein meets Debbie Does Dallas.
:awe::D


In another version of the story, Isis is impregnated by divine fire. Once Isis knew she was pregnant with Horus, she fled to the Nile Delta marshlands to hide from her brother Set who jealously killed Osiris and whom she knew would want to kill their son. There Isis bore a divine son, Horus.
Hm, divine impregnation, and a divine son. Now where have I heard that before?
(And what is so important to gods about having their god-child go through human gestation and a vaginal birth anyway?)
 

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
They are simply wrong. Monotheists, Polytheists, Non-Theists all have the same Experiences. They incorrectly attribute an Experience to something they have no Evidence for. The Experience is Self Induced and is literally all in one's head.

You should be in awe, for I have stated the Truth as it stands. Find out for yourself.

To even proposition a lack of evidence is questionable.

Now assume you are right about the "lack of evidence", logically you can not conclude that God does not exist.

It is a leap of Faith, one that you put in Empirics and the Scientific Method that you are able to conclude as such.

As much as it is a leap of Faith to conclude there must be a God.

Either direction is an illogical progression of your argument, and ironically COUNTER-PROVES your own stance on Science and Rationality.

The MOST you can logically claim is that you are Agnostic.
 
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