AT World of Warcraft Thread (Cataclysm, Where do you play, General BS and all that)

[Aikouka]

Tanking ICC as a DK - I saw similar numbers as long as I was the one doing the actual work. The same was true when I tanked another 10 man on my Warrior yesterday: I could put out ridiculous amounts of threat as long as I was the Primary, and nobody could come close. The reverse is also true: When the Paladin I was working with yesterday was in the #1 slot, I couldn't come close to his threat output either.

Vengeance falls off quickly, too. Made for some wonky behavior on (for example) H LDW, when the tanks need to be competitive (and competing) for threat in order to have accurate boss swaps. If/when the Offtanks can stay at or regain the #2 slot in the time it takes for the MT to get his debuffs, then it's simple... But with DD's (especially casters), being more potent, and with tank threat being dependent on Vengeance for max output it's now a lot harder to accomplish those kinds of tasks.

Used to be a mark of a superior tank team to be consistently good at aggro~swapping non~tauntable mobs by managing their positions on the threat table relative to each other and to the rest of the raid. But I guess 'Tauntable Bosses' aren't going anywhere. Not at this rate.

I noticed the same thing on LDW... it's nigh impossible without having DPS sit there twiddling their thumbs and having the OT sit in DnDs lol.

Although where I beat the DK was actually on Marrowgar. They made him MT and I just shot past him pretty easily with only the saber lash damage.

So yeah, I think Vengeance is an interesting idea, but with the boost you get while having boss aggro and not is just too wide that it restricts them from using certain mechanics.

 

[Moonzi]

Played around a little with my Prot Pal, rotation seems for situational now:

I got it was all proc based now, still open with an avenger shield, judgment as you run in...but from there the rotation is:

-build up holy power to 3. if its single target, use crusader strike. if its multi, use hammer of right. once you hit 3 holy power, use Shield of Right.

-at the same time, watch for your avenger shield proc. it happens a lot and frankly, is a big big part in us being able to hold threat.

other prot pallies seeing that?

 

[Josh123]

Played around a little with my Prot Pal, rotation seems for situational now:

I got it was all proc based now, still open with an avenger shield, judgment as you run in...but from there the rotation is:

-build up holy power to 3. if its single target, use crusader strike. if its multi, use hammer of right. once you hit 3 holy power, use Shield of Right.

-at the same time, watch for your avenger shield proc. it happens a lot and frankly, is a big big part in us being able to hold threat.

other prot pallies seeing that?

I noticed this last night while PvPing and figured it would be the same for raiding. It's especially nice when you have the glyph to make Avenger Shield also daze.

 

[Aikouka]

Played around a little with my Prot Pal, rotation seems for situational now:

I got it was all proc based now, still open with an avenger shield, judgment as you run in...but from there the rotation is:

-build up holy power to 3. if its single target, use crusader strike. if its multi, use hammer of right. once you hit 3 holy power, use Shield of Right.

-at the same time, watch for your avenger shield proc. it happens a lot and frankly, is a big big part in us being able to hold threat.

other prot pallies seeing that?

I could've sworn that I saw judgements crit for more than AS last night, but I need to re-examine my logs to find out. I really should've been smart and turned on my combat log though :\.

But there's another thing to consider... judgement has a 50% chance to proc Sacred Duty, which makes your Shield of the Righteous crit. Sacred Duty is currently one of our best threat talents since our base crit rate is so low.

 

[Moonzi]

ah ok I missed that I'll try some more runs tonight

 

[Scotteq]

So yeah, I think Vengeance is an interesting idea, but with the boost you get while having boss aggro and not is just too wide that it restricts them from using certain mechanics.

Yah - On Farm stuff it doesn't matter. But certainly for progression I like having the security that comes from a good, attentive OT who is able to achieve and manage the #2 spot on the aggro table. The reason why is simple: If someone makes a mistake or if the RNG comes calling and the Main Tank dies, the boss will simply turn to the OT and not chain-Gib your strongest DD's. Perhaps Blizz will revisit, but I miss having that level of control.

Given how the Vengeance mechanic works, I doubt it's something that can be both a worthwhile gain while also maintaining some kind of balance between the MT and OT threat generation. Quite simply, given the +200% Threat multi from stance/presence/aura/form, differences in Damage Done by the Tank get tripled on the Aggro table. So if/when Aikouka gets a new piece of gear, and his DPS goes up by 100 - adding 200 to that from the Threat multi means Aikoka increases his TPS by 300 instead of "just" the difference in damage. Maybe HP/Gear will be managed in such a way as to minimize it, but adding scaling AP Buffs on top of a multiplier that large is clearly going to be a nightmare to balance.

At that point, how do you balance stats? Put more STR on gear, and the tank gets a 3X (original increase + another 200% from the multi) increase in threat output. But put STA on gear and the.. tank... gets an increase in damage/threat too... Just that he has to get beaten on a bit to get there....

I understand this was done to have more/better/adjustable~by~Blizzard threat scaling as gear improves. But in this form, it's an multiplier on top of another multiplier. For the sake of game balance, I think I'd rather see Vengeance go away and attach Threat scaling to something like Mastery. Or maybe have a sub mechanic where the tank gains stacks/charges of Vengeance which can be used on (a couple? an Offensive and a Defensive?)[/i] some ability.. Or something.


Maybe I'm just ranting, but any time I see a mechanic where a Percentage buffs another Percentage it's been my experience it's a nightmare to balance.

 

[rh71]

farking douchebags in randoms needing epics so they can DE it. I'm a resto shaman in need of offspec leveling gear (especially that ilvl 232 stuff)... I see he hit need so I decided not to need it myself. He DE's it then leaves.

I've also seen others need on blues they don't actually need. Maybe people are taking advantage of inspect and gearscore not working.

 

[Worthington]

My wife and I did some PvPing this weekend and wow, shit has really hit the fan in the PvP area in my opinion. First off, EVERYONE is in Wrathful gear with 1800 Arena Rating weapons. Second, the whole 20-29 level bracket is full of rogues Shadow Stepping people from across the map. I'm not even kidding, we were in a BG and Alliance had 6 rogues and Horde had atleast 4.

Well you can now buy the Tier 1 weapons for honor only (no rating requirement), so your gonna see a lot of people up'ing their PvP gear. It shows red when you look at the vendor but once you actually purchase it it's equipable. Not sure if it's a bug or now that the season is over they are leveling the playing field a bit.

 

[lupi]

ah that's interesting. I'm over all the hard caps so I'll need to buy some stuff before the next patch.

 

[RatboyX]

I’m sorry but I simply don’t get what Blizzard is up to with Hunters.

Oh sure I get the concept, I like the idea of focus in place of mana. Potentially it could be great, but is it great as it stands?

I’ve heard a lot of talk on non blue posts with speculation on why Blizzard has done what they have with the Hunter class. Everything from, Hunters were simply volley spamming idiots that don’t know how to do anything else, to Hunters were way overpowered to begin with and needed to be nerfed all along

Well I have got to say that if that’s the case it’s because Blizzard set up raids and dungeons in such a way as to force us into that type of role.

My guild did an ICC 10 man normal last night. We are trying to finish off Professor Putriside and Dreamwalker, but we let the instance reset so we could work our way through the bosses we have had on farm for some time. The idea was to use this to get a feel for all the changes.

I went in with high hopes for my Hunter and by high hopes I mean I had high hopes I wouldn’t SUCK

I did my best in the week before the raid. I tried different, specs, builds, glyphs, buff foods... you name it I tried it. I spent a lot of time at the practice dummies as well as running a few 5 man heroics. I thought I had a decent set up that might not bump up my DPS, but would get me about the same output as pre patch.

At one point I was managing to get 6300 DPS on the practice dummy and even my worst attempts were in the 5800 to 5900 range. I actually expected better numbers in an instance from Raid Buffs and the ability to use Kill Shot, which won’t work on the dummy because they never get to 20% health.

What I got instead was a HUGE dive in DPS in raid. I was struggling to maintain 3000 DPS and our DK Tank was ahead of me on almost EVERY fight. I was excited when I hit 5 K DPS on Stinky (Nature protection up and gimping my DPS without Aspect of the hawk) until I realized that I was happy about doing 5 K on a sub boss in ICC 10 man normal. Put in perspective that was a 1500 to 2000 DPS drop versus pre patch.

The only people in the Raid who I out DPSed were the healers.... and as they pointed out, now that they get Might form the paladin as a buff, they might just be better than me now if they use their daggers :/ Yeah it was a joke but still that's how I feel.

Going back to the practice dummies I was shocked. I don't know what happened since I ran those tests a few days ago but now I'm lucky to hit 5000 on the practice dummies, and usually was in the 4800 range a 1500 point drop form the 6300 I had been doing in practice.

I did my best not to let the massive outcry of the Hunter community deter me. I thought perhaps I was simply hearing the normal confusion of people who haven't adjusted to the major changes Blizzard has implemented for our class

I like the idea of the focus system. I want it to be a GOOD system. I want to be GOOD at using it. But it appears fundamentally flawed and all Blizzard has said is, "It will be good when you hit 85"

That’s such a ridicules idea.. If someone said to you "Oh hey... yeah that mage is going to do CRAPPY DPS for the first 84 levels but when you get to 85... well you will have caught up with the rest of the group" How is that an acceptable answer to the problem.

At the same time other “Pure DPS classes” are getting massive boosts in DPS

I got an e-mail from a guild mate that also runs with a horde guild.

QUOTE:

“Live reporting from ICC.....
My ele shaman is doing....wait for it.....19,000 DPS with Earthquake on the geist packs going into the plague wing.
My fulminant Earth Shock crit for 33K.
This is sick.”

And somehow I’m supposed to be happy with the current “Balance” of DPS in game?

Yes I expect the nerf to hit Shamans but they would need to back it off a LOT to get down to where I am currently sitting. When I'm pulling out the stops to hit 3500 to 4500 DPS on fights that previously I did 6000 + on then the Hunter is clearly broken.

I’m not even asking to be better off then I was before I’d settle for the same DPS output.

Blizzards silence on the Hunter problems is deafening. Where as all other DPS classes have had major increase in their DPS output the Hunters, the Fury Warriors, and the DPS Paladin spec, have taken a sharp nose dive.

What is the difference between Hunters and Paladins and Warriors? \

Well first off Hunters are classed, in Blizzards own post in the WoW DPS forum, as a “pure DPS class”, Warriors and Paladins are considered "Hybrid" classes because they can do other jobs besides DPS.

Warrior = Tank or DPS.
Paladin = Tank or DPS or Healing.

According to Blizzards own posts, because warriors and Paladins are 'Hybrid" classes they are designed to do slightly less DPS than a "Pure DPS" class. And who is doing the lowest DPS of these three classes.... I'll give ya all a hint it's not the Warriors or Paladins.

So with all the uproar from the Warriors, Paladins, and Hunters over poor DPS number the only ones Blizzard has said they are addressing are the Warriors and Paladins.

It's obvious that Blizzard has always struggled with the Hunter class, what better way to make it a non issue then to make it impossible to fulfill their function in game.. namely putting out DPS.

Somone said that Hunters should be more about CC, and my answer is that ALL the pure DPS classes have better CC than hunters and now they also have much better DPS output.

I see no reason to continue playing a class so badly flawed, the problem is I don't really have anything else ready to play... well that's not strictly true, I guess I could work on my Fury Warrior or convert my holy Paladin to DPS... Oh and what a shock the other two classes I could choose from right now are also putting out sub par DPS... Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

I have a level 47 Balance druid that's fun but leveling her would take a substantial amount of time. I have a Low level Shaman and a low level Rogue, both of which will take a serious amount of work to get ready before Cata. My one other thought would be to level my Death Knight....

Unless there is some major change PRE cataclysm and level 85 there is NO way I'm going to be playing a hunter. I haven't quite made up my mind but if I go with leveling the death knight for DPS I will still be hard pressed to get it done in time let alone get the toon geared properly.

Well Damn..... Enough QQ from me I'll work something out I guess I just don’t know what yet

 

[RatboyX]

Spell Changes
A lot of these changes are most likely the hotfixes we saw on live servers. They probably do not reflect how Blizzard wants to build classes at 85 and I will punch you in the face if you whine about it on forums. Seriously, I will.

If you look at it closely, most of these changes are just proper documentation of the changes announced on live servers earlier this week.

Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment

Druid (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Balance
•Insect Swarm base damage has been reduced by 50%.

Feral
•Maim now deals 155% weapon damage, up from 100%.
•Rip base bleed damage has been increased by 50%.
•Shred now deals 350% damage, up from 225%. Additional damage increased by 55%.
•Swipe now deals 335% weapon damage, up from 215%.
•Ravage now causes 850% damage, up from 550%. Additional damage increased by 55%
•Claw now causes 155% damage, up from 100%. Additional damage increased by 55%.
•Ferocious Bite base additional damage increased by 55%.
•Rake bleed damage has been increased by 55%.
•Fury Swipes now deals 310% weapon damage, up from 200%.

Mage (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Arcane
•Arcane Specialization now increases damage of Arcane spells by 15%, down from 25%.

Fire
•Fire Specialization now increases damage of Fire spells by 10%, down from 25%.

Frost
•Frost Specialization now increases damage of all Frost spells by 15%.

Paladin (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Holy
•Holy Wrath base damage has been increased by 30%.
•Exorcism now scales from 15% of Spell Power or AP, down from 22,5%. Base damage increased by 30%.

Retribution
•Hammer of Wrath base damage has been increased by 300%. (That's from [ 1253.82 to 1385.8 ] to [ 4890.09 to 5404.84 ]
•Crusader Strike now deals 150% weapon damage, up from 120%.

Priest (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Shadow
•Shadow Word: Death base damage has been reduced by 75%.

Warlock (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Affliction
•Drain Soul now causes double damage if the target is below 25% health, down from 4 times the normal damage.

Destruction
•Searing Pain base damage has been reduced by 60%. Mana cost reduced from 18% of base mana to 12% of base mana.

Warrior (Forums / Cataclysm Talent Calculator / Beta Skills/Talents)
Arms
•Rend base damage has been increased by 50%.
•Bladestorm now deals 150% weapon damage, up from 100%.
•Mastery: Strikes of Opportunity now deals 115% normal damage, up from 75%.

Fury
•Slam now deals 150% weapon damage, up from 100%.
•Whirlwind now deals 75% weapon damage, up from 50%.
•Raging Blow now deals 150% weapon damage, up from 100%.
•Bloodthirst now scales from 75% of Attack Power, up from 50%.
•Bloodsurge now also makes Slam free to cast.

And on hunters? Silence so loud it’s defining.

 

[lupi]

so like, WTF is up with rogue damage. had a 43 come by and insta gib my 48 mage with a single ambush.

 

[rh71]

the cog wheel mouseover thing is still causing crashes? WTF? Crashed twice with WSG flags.

 

[rh71]

so like, WTF is up with rogue damage. had a 43 come by and insta gib my 48 mage with a single ambush.

sounds about right... if a guy with 2 knives can't stab someone in the back hard enough to kill them, they suck at being a ninja.

 

[Aikouka]

The hunter in our run last night did just fine. The Overall DPS had him at about 8k, but I don't think he was as geared. Top DPS overall was an Elemental Shaman . But that might also relate to how much Mastery these Shamans are Reforging to.

ah ok I missed that I'll try some more runs tonight

Hmm I did see some really high Judgements in my Recount.. the highest was 27,376 and the highest Avenger's Shield was 23,282. I'm not sure how I got such a high Judgement though, as the average was only 10,540 (crit) and the average on AS was 15,550 (crit).

I understand this was done to have more/better/adjustable~by~Blizzard threat scaling as gear improves. But in this form, it's an multiplier on top of another multiplier. For the sake of game balance, I think I'd rather see Vengeance go away and attach Threat scaling to something like Mastery. Or maybe have a sub mechanic where the tank gains stacks/charges of Vengeance which can be used on (a couple? an Offensive and a Defensive?)[/i] some ability.. Or something.

While it was a wonky mechanic, I think Vigilance worked the best as it directly fed off of a player's threat, but you also had to be sort of smart in choosing the best person to give it to. Best DPS was not always the highest threat.

 

[lupi]

finishing setting up the ret and elemental to do the hallowed daily...ret dps sucks now.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

Hallowed event is so bugged. When you summon HH the game just locks 90% of the time. And when you log in and kill him, it locks up again when you try to leave group.

 

[Aikouka]

Hallowed event is so bugged. When you summon HH the game just locks 90% of the time. And when you log in and kill him, it locks up again when you try to leave group.

Yeah, it's possible to do, but expect to reopen WoW quite a bit. It's odd though that random players just spawn him and he spawns just fine.

The worst part is.. whenever WoW freezes like that, it doesn't relinquish the RAM. I have 5GB being used right now .

 

[lupi]

no even the summon, half the time if i just mouse over the pumpkin i get booted out.

 

[Sid59]

What class do you guys suggest i try? I currently have:
80 lock - destro
80 druid - feral/resto
80 pally - prot/ret
80 sham - resto/elemental

71 warrior - unspecced
various other toons

 

[Aikouka]

What class do you guys suggest i try? I currently have:
80 lock - destro
80 druid - feral/resto
80 pally - prot/ret
80 sham - resto/elemental

71 warrior - unspecced
various other toons

What do you like to do? Locks are still potent casters as are Elemental Shamans. Prot Paladins are good, but make sure you have a slow 1H weapon for tanking (and by that, I mean a 1H agility ~2.5 speed weapon).

 

[guyver01]

If you're locking up when mousing over a cog icon..

This workaround workss if you're willing to disable tooltips when you are anywhere a cog icon might show up.

You will need to create two macros, for "turn off tooltips" and "turn on tooltips".

Turn Off Tooltips

/script GameTooltip.Temphide = function() GameTooltip:Hide() end; GameTooltip:SetScript("OnShow", GameTooltip.Temphide);

Turn On Tooltips

/script GameTooltip:SetScript("OnShow", GameTooltip.Show);

 

[Anubis]

im lucky ive never had the Cog of death issue

if its a tooltip thing i wonder if because im using tiptac i dont see it

 

[Aikouka]

I've only had the Wheel of Death during Hollow's Eve.

I was playing around on my 70 Undead Rogue earlier. This character is on another server, so he can't fly in Northrend and doesn't have epic flying. I'm tempted to transfer a character over there with some items to help out (Tome of Cold Weather Flying, glyphs, etc), but there's a limit on money that you can transfer, right? I'd probably just transfer some level 10 (since you have to be 10 to be transferred) mule over.

I could just move the character to Alleria and then move him back later on, but that'd be twice the expense .

 

[JujuFish]

but there's a limit on money that you can transfer, right?

I believe it was 20k when I transferred/faction changed my mage.