[AT] Haswell Refresh comes with improved TIM, unlocked Pentium due mid-2014

[AtenRa]

With that being the case, I see the G3220 doing just fine in Thief.

Pentium G3220 is unplayable in Thief with D3D. The CPU cannot handle the game and it stutters like grassy. The fps fluctuates up and down to the minimums continuously.
Also to remind everyone, review charts with only Average fps doesnt show how the game can be played. In Thief, Pentium G3220 has high average fps, but with 15fps minimums you can start to see that something is going wrong.

There are other games (most of the games will play fine) that G3220 can play flawlessly or with reduced IQ settings, but there are newer games that are unplayable and the trend will only get worst.

edit: Even Mantle doesnt help the Dual core.

 

[cbn]

Pentium G3220 is unplayable in Thief with D3D. The CPU cannot handle the game and it stutters like grassy. The fps fluctuates up and down to the minimums continuously.
Also to remind everyone, review charts with only Average fps doesnt show how the game can be played. In Thief, Pentium G3220 has high average fps, but with 15fps minimums you can start to see that something is going wrong.

There are other games (most of the games will play fine) that G3220 can play flawlessly or with reduced IQ settings, but there are newer games that are unplayable and the trend will only get worst.

edit: Even Mantle doesnt help the Dual core.

Assuming minimum frame rate scales linearly with clockspeed here is what I come up for a minimum frame rate comparison:

4.5 Ghz Pentium D3D @ 21.4 FPS (vs. Athlon 750K @ 22 FPS)
4.5 Ghz Pentium Mantle @ 33.6 FPS (vs. Athlon 750K @ 37.2 FPS)

 

[StinkyPinky]

http://www.hardocp.com/news/2014/05/25/intel_reportedly_pushing_back_launch_nextgen_cpus

HardOCP is also reporting a delay until late september, although they don't list their source so it may be the same source as already listed.

 

[toyota]

freaking nightmare just to get Splinter Cell Blacklist going. game takes forever to install on Uplay and you have to install 4 patches 1 at a time. that means launching the game, patching then exiting and doing it 3 more times. so stupid and its silly they give Steam a simple inclusive patch but cant do that on Uplay.

then the game stuttered like crazy when panning around. I spent an hour trying different fixes and only thing that finally worked was setting pre rendered frames to 1 in the Nvidia control panel.

anyway it was odd that the game disables HT by default. I did not even know that any game did that. I went to task manger though and was going to change affinity and cores 1,3,5 and 7 were already unchecked. the game was basically pegging all 4 cores though. I enabled the HT cores just to see what happens and it made pretty good use of those too.

now using just 2 cores the game seemed okay looking at framerate but it was not quite as smooth as 4 cores. and this was just walking around on the plane with zero action. panning around was clearly a little worse than with 4 cores but not as bad of hitching like in Thief. of course both cores were completely pegged and the game itself was still using 31% of my cpu even though the affinity was set to only set to 2 cores. my cpu was also getting 7-9% usage from Chrome on top of that for 40% usage overall so if I really only had 2 cores total then I am sure it would be very stuttery.

 

[cbn]

http://www.hardocp.com/news/2014/05/25/intel_reportedly_pushing_back_launch_nextgen_cpus

HardOCP is also reporting a delay until late september, although they don't list their source so it may be the same source as already listed.

If Intel is going to delay the 20th Anniversary Pentium, It would be great if they gave us the 84 watt HSF (from the quad core line).....if they don't already plan on doing so.

This beefier stock cooler should allow some strong overclocks.

 

[blackened23]

http://www.hardwarepal.com/thief-cpu-gpu-benchmark/

CPU scores at the bottom. The only CPUs "suffering" are the AMD ones, with a dual core i3 beating the 8350.. UE3 is and always has been heavily IPC bound at low res/low settings, GPU limited at high res.

 

[AtenRa]

Assuming minimum frame rate scales linearly with clockspeed here is what I come up for a minimum frame rate comparison:

4.5 Ghz Pentium D3D @ 21.4 FPS (vs. Athlon 750K @ 22 FPS)
4.5 Ghz Pentium Mantle @ 33.6 FPS (vs. Athlon 750K @ 37.2 FPS)

Athlon 750K is at Default in those graphs, have a look at A10-5800K @ 4.4GHz for an OC version of 750K.

 

[USER8000]

http://www.hardwarepal.com/thief-cpu-gpu-benchmark/

CPU scores at the bottom. The only CPUs "suffering" are the AMD ones, with a dual core i3 beating the 8350.. UE3 is and always has been heavily IPC bound at low res/low settings, GPU limited at high res.

I thought we were talking about the Pentium dual core and not a Core i3??

I see missing results for a Pentium dual core. However,AtenRa did test one,compared to multiple CPUs,and Core i3 performance was noticeably better.

However,this dual core vs 4 thread CPU debate has been already had many times before.

E8400 vs Q6600.

Pentium G6950 vs Core i3 530.

Higher clocked Phenom II X2 vs lower clocked Phenom II X4.

The 4 thread CPUs have always last longer of you took an average of games over a couple of years.

 

[blackened23]

His results seem to differ slightly from the other IPC bound results of all other UE3 games. I'm not saying there's a conflict of interest due to him being an AMD reseller, hence maybe not everyone would take his results seriously. But all UE3 games are, generally speaking, IPC bound (AT LOW RESOLUTIONS) unless physx is a variable. And UE3 for the most part is not a game that prefers 4 logical cores. sorry, there are way too many UE3 games showing GPU limitations at high resolutions. I could be silly and name like 20 of them if I really cared. But arguing this is really tiring since so many of the AMD fans want to put the pentium in the worst light possible. As a chip that can only play legacy games. whatever you say.

Now here's the truly funny thing. You acknowledge these i3 results. Guess what. UE3 games generally don't support or do not benefit greatly from hyperthreading. So you're telling me the i3 is going to be vastly superior to a Pentium? Well, maybe by clockspeed alone, but not because of hyperthreading. Bzzt. Wrong. UE3 games have the same overall performance on i5 or i7 with clockspeed not a variable, generally speaking. This doesn't apply to all games, but is the general rule for UE3. UE3 can be modified by developers, but generally isn't to a great extent. But here we are saying a dual core i3 would be leagues faster than a dual core pentium. If-you-say-so.

If you want to characterize the G3220 as unusable for gaming because you prefer AMD, whatever you say man. I've used the chip and know otherwise. Whatever you say. This is just getting tiring at this point. We know that IPC matters for PC gaming, and while 4 logical cores are preferable , MOST game engines prefer IPC. And the G3220 as we know does just fine there, with many of these games showing an i3 with 2 physical cores beating an AMD FX8350. This is why. IPC still reigns matters for gaming in those CPU limited situations. But most triple A's are gpu limited, including most UE3 games.

 

[USER8000]

His results seem to differ slightly from the other IPC bound results of all other UE3 games. I'm not saying there's a conflict of interest due to him being an AMD reseller, hence maybe not everyone would take his results seriously. But all UE3 games are, generally speaking, IPC bound unless physx is a variable. And UE3 for the most part is not a game that prefers 4 logical cores. sorry, there are way too many UE3 games showing GPU limitations at high resolutions. I could be silly and name like 20 of them if I really cared. But arguing this is really tiring since so many of the AMD fans want to put the pentium in the worst light possible. As a chip that can only play legacy games. whatever you say.

If you want to characterize the G3220 as unusable for gaming because you prefer AMD, whatever you say man. I've used the chip and know otherwise. Whatever you say. This is just getting tiring at this point. We know that IPC matters for PC gaming, and while 4 logical cores are preferable , MOST game engines prefer IPC. And the G3220 as we know does just fine there, with many of these games showing an i3 with 2 physical cores beating an AMD FX8350. This is why. IPC still reigns matters for gaming in those CPU limited situations. But most triple A's are gpu limited, including most UE3 games.

Why should they differ??

He is showing a Core i3 4000 series CPUs way past an FX8350 without Mantle and matching with Mantle.

With Mantle.

Without Mantle.

His results are in-line with what has been seen.

Thread scaling.

Thief uses a modified UE3 engine.

Bioshock Infinite is the same.

UE3 uses upto 4 threads.

It also has undergone massive modifications over its lifespan.

This has been known for years.

It was one of the first engines to use upto 4 threads.

Look at the graphs instead of just reacting.

PS:

I use a Core i5 and a GTX660.

I have not had an AMD powered main PC since the Athlon64 days.

It also does not change the fact people have had these discussion for the last couple of years.

The Q6600 won over the E8400.

I am glad I got a Q6600 over the E8400 TBH.

Despite significantly lower single core performance at stock,and a poor overclocking sample I had,I still managed to do better than my mate with higher clockspeed and higher IPC E8400,who ditched it quicker than my CPU.

The Core i3 530 won over the G6950.

A low end Core i5 will be a better choice if you intend to not upgrade for years.

DX12,Mantle and future games will thread better.

This is why your main PC does not have a Pentium dual core,right??

His results seem to differ slightly from the other IPC bound results of all other UE3 games. I'm not saying there's a conflict of interest due to him being an AMD reseller, hence maybe not everyone would take his results seriously. But all UE3 games are, generally speaking, IPC bound (AT LOW RESOLUTIONS) unless physx is a variable. And UE3 for the most part is not a game that prefers 4 logical cores. sorry, there are way too many UE3 games showing GPU limitations at high resolutions. I could be silly and name like 20 of them if I really cared. But arguing this is really tiring since so many of the AMD fans want to put the pentium in the worst light possible. As a chip that can only play legacy games. whatever you say.

Now here's the truly funny thing. You acknowledge these i3 results. Guess what. UE3 games generally don't support or do not benefit greatly from hyperthreading. So you're telling me the i3 is going to be vastly superior to a Pentium? Well, maybe by clockspeed alone, but not because of hyperthreading. Bzzt. Wrong. UE3 games have the same overall performance on i5 or i7 with clockspeed not a variable, generally speaking. This doesn't apply to all games, but is the general rule for UE3. UE3 can be modified by developers, but generally isn't to a great extent. But here we are saying a dual core i3 would be leagues faster than a dual core pentium. If-you-say-so.

If you want to characterize the G3220 as unusable for gaming because you prefer AMD, whatever you say man. I've used the chip and know otherwise. Whatever you say. This is just getting tiring at this point. We know that IPC matters for PC gaming, and while 4 logical cores are preferable , MOST game engines prefer IPC. And the G3220 as we know does just fine there, with many of these games showing an i3 with 2 physical cores beating an AMD FX8350. This is why. IPC still reigns matters for gaming in those CPU limited situations. But most triple A's are gpu limited, including most UE3 games.

I am quoting you again since you changed the answer again.

Look at the graphs I linked to.

Two modified UE3 games from 2013 and 2014 seem to be able to use HT to a certain degree.

The Core i3 shows utilisation along all of its 4 threads.

Hence,the posters results for Thief are valid.

Other UE3 games might not.

 

[USER8000]

http://www.videogamer.com/ps4/thief/news/confirmed_thief_uses_unreal_engine_3_not_ue4.html

Thief is being built using a modified version of Unreal Engine 3, not Unreal Engine 4, Eidos Montreal has confirmed.
Despite being one of the first next-gen titles to be revealed, the game's producer Stephane Roy explained that the decision to stick with Unreal Engine 3 rather than opt for Epic's next-gen Unreal Engine 4 was a matter of timing and "flexibility".
"Keep in mind when we started, Unreal 4 was [still in] development," Roy explained to VideoGamer.com.
"Something really important for us is the flexibility to modify the tools, for example, and Unreal is flexible on this side.
"We worked a lot to improve the tools for the artists and the designers. The game is big, we have to produce a lot of assets. Light and shadow gameplay is amazingly important on our side so we worked very hard to boost the rendering aspect of the engine, how to deal with the light. So I think it's a question of flexibility. With Unreal it's possible to do it. So yes, it's Unreal 3, but [there are] some modifications."
The decision to build on UE3 may come as a surprise to some fans, with Epic billing Unreal Engine 4 as the engine best-suited to next-generation platforms.
Nevertheless, Roy claims that the use of UE3 will still provide Eidos with the opportunity to deliver the game in the way it had hoped.
"The main goal is to give you the game experience we want to provide," he continues. "It's really important for us. It's the immersion. There is no compromise about the quality of the game we want to give you to make sure that you are going to have fun and that you are going to believe in this universe.
"That said, is it possible to have the same quality of product on today's generation? If the answer is yes, I am open to consider the question [why it's next-gen only]. But right now, we feel that the next-gen gives us the maximum of the game experience we want to give you."
Thief launches on PC, PlayStation 4 and "other next-generation platforms" next year. Square-Enix claims that the next-gen versions will look 'almost identical' to the PC version.

https://www.unrealengine.com/showcase/bioshock-infinite

“Our Core Technology team, led by Steve Ellmore, and our Gameplay Programming team, led by John Abercrombie, have replaced or heavily modified vast portions of Unreal Engine 3 for BioShock Infinite,” said Chris Kline, Technical Director at Irrational Games. “A few examples of systems their teams developed include AI, rendering, audio, animation, entity movement, collision detection, user input. Other systems were deeply modified such as physics and content streaming.”

Edit!!

Look at another UE3 game like Remember Me from last year.

That shows no HT scaling and even though it uses upto 4 threads,mostly two threads are used.

This is why you cannot make a hard and fast rule for UE3.

Many devs will modify the engine - Bioshock Infinite and Thief used heavily modified engines.

It also why UE3 is popular too,it seems Epic is OK with devs modifying the engine as required.

This is why I think his Thief results look plausible,as certainly his DX11 results for the AMD CPUs without Mantle seem to show lower performance than the Core i3 CPUs which can be verified it seems.

However,it is also not an indication of how other UE3 games will perform as indicated by Remember Me.

Anyway,we are going off-topic here,so I will keep it at that.

 

[mikk]

http://chinese.vr-zone.com/114262/i...-4970k-and-core-i5-4690k-cpu-z-show-05272014/

Maybe it wasn't a fake? CPUz reports 8-44 and 4.00 Ghz as base clock.

 

[crashtech]

If true, that would be the fastest stock clock of any Intel CPU to date, would it not?

 

[Sweepr]

http://chinese.vr-zone.com/114262/i...-4970k-and-core-i5-4690k-cpu-z-show-05272014/

Maybe it wasn't a fake? CPUz reports 8-44 and 4.00 Ghz as base clock.

Perhaps there was a late change of clockspeed (from 3.7GHz base to 4GHz base)?

If true, that would be the fastest stock clock of any Intel CPU to date, would it not?

There were some obscure OEM-only Westmere Xeons that hit 4.4GHz, I've never seen one though.

www.cpu-world.com/news_2011/2011031101_Intel_quitely_ships_4_4_GHz_Xeon_X5698.html

 

[Sweepr]

4GHz base clocks does make sense if Intel plans to introduce a 3.3GHz Core i7-5820K @ $300-450. Some people would choose Devil's Canyon thanks to the very high stock clockspeed (possibly best gaming chip @ stock), lower total platform costs (MB, DDR3 insted of DDR4 memory) and some would choose Haswell-E (better MT performance, possibly lower CPU price than 6C Ivy Bridge-E).

 

[stockwiz]

bah.. celebrating their 20th anniversary part with a low power CPU that costs them nothing extra to produce seems rather lackluster.

Why not sell a higher end quad core or hex core at cost for a limited period of time, or unlock a quad... oh well.

 

[witeken]

Quadcore Pentium, huh?

 

[Sweepr]

Infact, we already have a verified 5 GHz result of the Core i7-4790K which was maintained at 1.400V from Overclock.net forums user “Dhenzjhen@OCN”. The chip was able to deliver a score of 16285 3D Marks in 3DMark 05 which heavily relies on the CPU performance. From what i’ve heard, this overclock was done on air so we can be looking at some big numbers when LN 2 cooling comes in to action.

Core i7 4790K @ Amazon (Third Party Sellers): www.amazon.com/Intel-Core-i7-4790K-P...words=i7-4790k

 

[cbn]

Glad to see compatibility with 8 series confirmed.

 

[StinkyPinky]

I wonder if Devils Canyon comes with unique heatsinks or maybe none at all.

 

[coercitiv]

Quadcore Pentium, huh?

Whatever happened to that 4+1 core anyway?

 

[cbn]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/asrock-z97-z97m-anniversary-motherboard,26920.html

ASRock's Z97, Z97M Anniversary Mobos Accompany Unlocked Pentium

ASRock reveals two budget Z97 motherboards to accompany the launch of the unlocked Pentium processor from Intel.

To accompany the launch of the unlocked Pentium Anniversary Edition processor, manufacturer ASRock has announced two budget-friendly Z97-based motherboards: the Z97 Anniversary and the Z97M Anniversary.

The reason that the two Z97-based boards are budget-oriented is because the unlocked Pentium Anniversary Edition processor can only be overclocked on a Z-series motherboard, and with the CPU being a budget CPU, it would only be right that there is a budget motherboard accompanying it. A budget motherboard that doesn't support overclocking simply wouldn't make sense.

The Z97 Anniversary is a simple ATX-size motherboard with a single PCI-Express 3.0 x16 slot along with three PCI-Express 2.0 x1 slots, topped off with two legacy PCI ports. Ethernet is provided by the built-in Intel LAN that has four USB 3.0 ports, two USB 2.0 ports, a single HDMI port, stereo analog audio, and an old-school PS/2 port for legacy peripheral connectivity.

The Z97M Anniversary is a Micro-ATX board with a single PCI-Express 3.0 x16 slots and two PCI-Express 2.0 x1 slots. Rear I/O is largely identical to the Z97 anniversary, with the exception of added DVI and PS/2 port, VGA, and two USB 3.0 ports swapped for USB 2.0 ports.

ASRock has indicated that the 20th Anniversary Unlocked Pentium Processor, which is clocked at 3.2 GHz by default, will be able to overclock to about 4.4 GHz on the Z97 Anniversary board. Of course, depending on your skills and chip you might be able to get beyond that, or might have some difficulty reaching it.

Exact pricing for the units remains unknown, though we know that these are budget boards so they will fall into a budget price category.

Looking forward to seeing how these compare to the sale priced Z87s already at Newegg.

Although with that mentioned, I must say the the Intel LAN is definitely a super nice touch for a budget motherboard :thumbsup:

 

[Sweepr]

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/asrock-z97-z97m-anniversary-motherboard,26920.html



Looking forward to seeing how these compare to the sale priced Z87s already at Newegg.

Although with that mentioned, I must say the the Intel LAN is definitely a super nice touch for a budget motherboard :thumbsup:

That's exactly what most Pentium G3258 buyers are looking for. A hopefully cheap Z97 motherboard can push this little dual-core past 4GHz. I hope other vendors release similar MBs.

In case anyone missed, Pentium G3258 & Devil's Canyon pricing is now official:

Very competitive pricing IMHO and I'm glad they didn't raise Core i7 4790K price above $400 like some suggested.

Other slides:

4GHz Devil's Canyon should be fast enough to convince lots of 4C/8T LGA1366 & SB users to upgrade.

 

[crashtech]

I'm sold, but then again I'm a sucker for anything new. Can't wait to see the reviews.

 

[Bubbleawsome]

Look for intel processor match. It will tell you what motherboards are compatible and what BIOS version to use.