[AT]AMD Demonstrates "FreeSync", Free G-Sync Alternative, at CES 2014

[dacostafilipe]

Free-sync requires v-sync. Did I hear that correctly.

And where did you "hear" it?

 

[sontin]

Free-sync requires v-sync. Did I hear that correctly. LOL. Not only will it never materialize, it does nothing to address input lag.

It's a combination of using VBLANK and triple buffering:

In Koduri's assessment, it's possible to achieve a G-Sync-like animation smoothness with a combination of two techniques: dynamic refresh rates and triple buffering.

http://techreport.com/news/25867/amd-could-counter-nvidia-g-sync-with-simpler-free-sync-tech

If the card can't hit the calculated VBLANK it needs tb to adjust the next cycle.

 

[NTMBK]

This is going to be the fastest banning ever. :thumbsup:

And he's gone.
admin allisolm

 

[blackened23]

It's a combination of using VBLANK and triple buffering:

http://techreport.com/news/25867/amd-could-counter-nvidia-g-sync-with-simpler-free-sync-tech

If the card can't hit the calculated VBLANK it needs tb to adjust the next cycle.

So to summarize:

Freesync:

No plans to productize it
No timeframe for it to hit the market
AMD "doesn't know" when it could arrive
Requires new desktop panels that support variable vblank
AMD has talked to zero panel manufacturers about bringing variable vblank to market
IT IS BASED ON VSYNC (lol?!)
Because of above, doesn't solve input lag.

We can just buy into the marketing dream though I guess.

 

[MeldarthX]

Free-sync requires v-sync. Did I hear that correctly. LOL. Not only will it never materialize, it does nothing to address input lag.



More like, some people are sick of AMD's sleazy marketing and the fact that they hire stealth marketers to influence opinions at this forum and many others. Free-sync, being a marketing trick, is of no exception to AMD's deceptive marketing.

You mean just like Nvidia; who actually was caught hiring stealth marketeers? *not saying AMD hasn't; most likely has* second wth does this have to do with Free sync.....nothing; seriously enough for everyone's that derailing the thread.

People that were there; were impressed by it; it will be coming we just don't know the details.......flat out lieing in quotes won't change that.

Its been shown and others have already stated; gsync can be done without added hardware; second this was patented by ATI long before Nvidia; *which will get interesting if and when Nvida runs into those patients* also set up as a standard by vesa.

Most monitors can already do this if they can't need a firmware update. How hard is that? *its not* So what's the down side? Wait its from AMD so its complete crap; though if Nvidia had done it its great.....

Enough of that; AMD's answered; and which most people haven't bothered to notice this wasn't on Richland; but ran on Kabani......which is even more impressive; and two laptops straight off the shelve.......Now can Nvidia do that?

 

[blackened23]

You mean just like Nvidia; who actually was caught hiring stealth marketeers? *not saying AMD hasn't; most likely has* second wth does this have to do with Free sync.....nothing; seriously enough for everyone's that derailing the thread.

SEMICOLONS. A LOT OF THEM.

Anyway, flat out "lying" in quotes. It was all based on the AT article. Did you read it? AMD has no plans or timeframe to get this to market. And it requires new panels. The stealth marketing on forums done by AMD is a fact. I could link you their top 100 influencer site, of which one former AT member who was banned is in the top 5 of, if you'd like. PM me if you want it. That's what AMD does. Marketing with powerpoints, stealth marketing on forums, to get people buying into their nonsense.

Some people have learned to not trust their nonsense. Especially after Bulldozer. This free-sync news? I treat it in the same respect based on AMD's prior history of deception.

 

[Silverforce11]

More like, some people are sick of AMD's sleazy marketing and the fact that they hire stealth marketers to influence opinions at this forum and many others. In fact, need I remind you, there was one marketer in particular that was banned from this forum for lying about 290X benchmarks. Which he obtained free from AMD through their influencing/stealth program. How many guys are bidding for free gear? Anyway, free-sync, being a marketing trick, is of no exception to AMD's deceptive marketing. The fact that AMD has nothing with no time frame to market, and with zero plans to get this into a product speaks volumes to any outsider looking in. But that doesn't stop the incessant marketing, as if we're that gullible.

You mean you are sick of AMD and thats why you have been on an endless tirade/crusade (call it whatever you wish) since the R290s launched?

If AMD has stealth marketing on forums, do you think NV does not? Are you really that ignorant?

In regards to "AMD has nothing with no time frame to market".. well, they did TELL YOU IT WAS A TECH DEMO. Or rather did you not understand that? I think this point of yours was addressed previously in this thread rather well. They clearly told the reviewers who were there, they are not ready yet (because its a tech demo afterall). You then interpret that in your twisted way by presuming they have zero plans to market... well, good on you sir, but I cannot be blamed for thinking you are trying real hard to troll here. There's no other way to twist such an event.

Edit: Why don't you revisit the last post I addressed to you, let's leave it at your point "I wish I was wrong" rather than persist on your anti-AMD crusade at every chance.

 

[Grooveriding]

Dude don't derail the thread with the viral marketing crap. Nvidia and AMD both viral market in forums and elsewhere on the net. AMD just got caught more recently here with that one guy. It adds nothing to the discussion, take it elsewhere.

 

[Silverforce11]

Nobody is against Freesync because AMD. Personally I hope it happens. But if you look at their history of their claims and how that lined up with reality, a trend emerges. That trend being AMD promises one thing , but it never happens.

There you go. You know g-sync is coming. WHO KNOWS IF FREESYNC is coming or not. Thanks for summarizing the situation. If AMD makes it happen, hey great. History is working against you, though. Historically AMD has always been full of crap, essentially, so I don't have much hope of freesync happening. ESPECIALLY when the article itself STATES that they don't have any plans to turn this into an actual product. Sounds like more proof of concept marketing nonsense. I hope i'm wrong though.

So, shall we leave it at that? You hope you're wrong.. and AMD succeeds and Freesync can happen.

 

[dacostafilipe]

It's a combination of using VBLANK and triple buffering:

What's your problem with triple buffering? I don't get it how this should be negative.

If also read somewhere that is would add input lag, but it's not the case. Without Vsync it does not add delay.

 

[blackened23]

Yep. Hope i'm wrong. History says based on past AMD promises? probably not. For once AMD's marketing/stealth marketers need to shut up and their engineers/developers need to deliver. Tell us when free-sync products are coming. Get monitors manufacturers on board. Give us a time frame. Etc.

Right now, the way I see it, we have two problems. One, free-sync, even if it WORKS in some alternate reality, is based on v-sync. That's a deal killer because V-sync = input lag. Which I should remind you, g-sync doesn't have. Second. This is nothing more than paper based marketing to give AMD fans hope for a g-sync alternative. I'd bet money that it doesn't materialize into a real product.

AMD is amazing at promising the world via marketing. Remember BD and the overhyped promises? Oh hey, it's the SB killer. Delivering on those promises? Not so much. In terms of delivering, I could do a detailed analysis of promises versus actual results, if you want. Simply ask. But you know i'm right.

 

[NTMBK]

For once AMD's marketing/stealth marketers need to shut up and their engineers/developers need to deliver.

Stealth marketers, eh? Do you suspect someone in particular in this thread of being a stealth marketer, and do you have any evidence? Or are you just going to throw out a cowardly accusation like that?

 

[Silverforce11]

Yep. Hope i'm wrong. Tell us when free-sync products are coming. Get monitors manufacturers on board. Give us a time frame. Etc.

So you got this hot and excited because a company launches a tech demo and forgot to tell you their exact to-market plans?

 

[blackened23]

Stealth marketers, eh? Do you suspect someone in particular in this thread of being a stealth marketer, and do you have any evidence? Or are you just going to throw out a cowardly accusation like that?

I didn't accuse anyone in this thread of anything. Just noting AMD's marketing tactics. Powerpoints, stealth marketers to perpetuate such, etc. Fortunately no powerpoints on free-sync yet.

 

[Grooveriding]

When I saw this thread yesterday I knew it would devolve in short order to a complete disaster and here it is. Man, VC&G is just a disaster zone of pent-up brand loyalty.

 

[MeldarthX]

Semicolons, Lots of them with mis-spellings. That sure does hurt the eyes.

Anyway, flat out "lying" in quotes. It was all based on the AT article. Did you read it? AMD has no plans or timeframe to get this to market. And it requires new panels. The stealth marketing on forums done by AMD is a fact. I could link you their top 100 influencer site, of which one former AT member who was banned is in the top 5 of, if you'd like. PM me if you want it. That's what AMD does. Marketing with powerpoints, stealth marketing on forums, to get people buying into their nonsense.

Some people have learned to not trust their nonsense. Especially after Bulldozer.

No you got called on flat out lieing in your quotes; by completely changing the context of your so called quote. That is disingenerious at least and lieing; with fud at most.

We get you hate AMD; again; which has been ignore.

This was done with off the shelf hardware; nothing added. On Kabani no less.........Show me where Nvidia has done that.

Right now - we've just seen AMD's answer to Gsync; using industry standards *which you know is good for the industry* When is the last time Nvidia done anything good for the industry and not their pockets. Nvidia will try to milk this as much as possible; and is not consumer friendly.

I don't hate Nvidia; I hate their business practices; I've had to work with them before along with Intel and they are some of the slimmest to work with; but have to at times.

AMD needs to get this out there; along with Mantle; but I'd rather honestly they take their time and make sure it works than to just slosh it out there.

 

[MeldarthX]

Yep. Hope i'm wrong. History says based on past AMD promises? probably not. For once AMD's marketing/stealth marketers need to shut up and their engineers/developers need to deliver. Tell us when free-sync products are coming. Get monitors manufacturers on board. Give us a time frame. Etc.

Right now, the way I see it, we have two problems. One, free-sync, even if it WORKS in some alternate reality, is based on v-sync. That's a deal killer because V-sync = input lag. Which I should remind you, g-sync doesn't have. Second. This is nothing more than paper based marketing to give AMD fans hope for a g-sync alternative. I'd bet money that it doesn't materialize into a real product.

AMD is amazing at promising the world via marketing. Remember BD and the overhyped promises? Oh hey, it's the SB killer. Delivering on those promises? Not so much. In terms of delivering, I could do a detailed analysis of promises versus actual results, if you want. Simply ask. But you know i'm right.

Again prove its based on v-sync cause everything says otherwise.....

There’s apparently already a VESA standard for controlling VBLANK intervals. *coughs* is not v-sync; coughs*

 

[Silverforce11]

When I saw this thread yesterday I knew it would devolve in short order to a complete disaster and here it is. Man, VC&G is just a disaster zone of pent-up brand loyalty.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E.B.

Its the same in the Mantle thread. I have said repeatedly, both camps pro and cons have no evidence for their hate because Mantle isn't out, its not proven, all they do is sling poo at each other because nothing they say is substantiated with facts.

Likewise, here, we have a tech demo. AT A TECH SHOW, and people come in here to fling poo at it. Why exactly? If it works, awesome, free-sync for gamers and cheaper G-SYNC for NV fans. If not, who cares, its a tech demo. Did people get their panties in a twist when TRUFORM was demoed?

 

[NTMBK]

I didn't accuse anyone in this thread of anything. Just noting AMD's marketing tactics. Powerpoints, stealth marketers to perpetuate such, etc. Fortunately no powerpoints on free-sync yet.

1) Every single tech company on the planet uses Powerpoints. Want me to go dig up a Powerpoint on G-Sync?
2) If there are no stealth marketers in this thread, and no incidents associated with Free-Sync at all, why bring it up in this thread?

 

[sontin]

It's not a Techdemo. nVidia showed a Techdemo. AMD showed a nearly static image with the same framerate synchronized to a certain VBLANK setting and compared it to a 60hz V-Sync setting running at 30FPS.

I can do the same even without any DP, VESA standards and marketing.

 

[Silverforce11]

It's not a Techdemo. nVidia showed a Techdemo. AMD showed a nearly static image with the same framerate synchronized to a certain VBLANK setting and compared it to a 60hz V-Sync setting running at 30FPS.

I can do the same even without any DP, VESA standards and marketing.

See, thats your opinion, of which you are welcome to it.

But the reviewers seem to disagree with you. I've read several from reputable sites and they came out impressed and hope "it works".

 

[NTMBK]

It's not a Techdemo. nVidia showed a Techdemo. AMD showed a nearly static image with the same framerate synchronized to a certain VBLANK setting and compared it to a 60hz V-Sync setting running at 30FPS.

I can do the same even without any DP, VESA standards and marketing.

It's a tech demo. It may be one you were not impressed by (even though Anand and the guys from Tech Report both said that it worked much like G-Sync), but it is still a tech demo.

 

[Arkadrel]

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." E.B.

Its the same in the Mantle thread. I have said repeatedly, both camps pro and cons have no evidence for their hate because Mantle isn't out, its not proven, all they do is sling poo at each other because nothing they say is substantiated with facts.

Likewise, here, we have a tech demo. AT A TECH SHOW, and people come in here to fling poo at it. Why exactly? If it works, awesome, free-sync for gamers and cheaper G-SYNC for NV fans. If not, who cares, its a tech demo. Did people get their panties in a twist when TRUFORM was demoed?

So much this.

 

[dacostafilipe]

Anand's NVIDIA G-Sync Review

G-Sync works by manipulating the display’s VBLANK (vertical blanking interval). VBLANK is the period of time between the display rasterizing the last line of the current frame and drawing the first line of the next frame. It’s called an interval because during this period of time no screen updates happen, the display remains static displaying the current frame before drawing the next one. VBLANK is a remnant of the CRT days where it was necessary to give the CRTs time to begin scanning at the top of the display once again. The interval remains today in LCD flat panels, although it’s technically unnecessary. The G-Sync module inside the display modifies VBLANK to cause the display to hold the present frame until the GPU is ready to deliver a new one.

With a G-Sync enabled display, when the monitor is done drawing the current frame it waits until the GPU has another one ready for display before starting the next draw process. The delay is controlled purely by playing with the VBLANK interval.

Source : http://www.anandtech.com/show/7582/nvidia-gsync-review

So, if (important point!) this FreeSync works, it's exactly like G-Sync minus the extra hardware!

 

[ShintaiDK]

Anand's NVIDIA G-Sync Review


Source : http://www.anandtech.com/show/7582/nvidia-gsync-review

So, if (important point!) this FreeSync works, it's exactly like G-Sync minus the extra hardware!

Not at all. You need the buffering part that is essentially what g-sync hardware is.

You would need for this to be a perfect straight line with perfect even rendertimes per frame to even stand a real chance without the extra hardware buffering:

Dynamic refresh would simply change the requied time per frame. But you still need an absolute perfect line and not the zigzag.

Also this was demoed on laptops only, since laptops do not have this entire chain. I guess the desktop support for "freesync" is close to zero. Hence why AMD is doing nothing but a PR spin out of it. No intention to develop it further, no intention for release at the current time. Just a concept.