[AT]AMD Demonstrates "FreeSync", Free G-Sync Alternative, at CES 2014

[VulgarDisplay]

And you're basing that statement on what, exactly?

I'd like to know that's for sure.

 

[NTMBK]

TechReport have also gone hands on with it:

One of the laptops was using traditional vsync, only refreshing the display at a fixed rate, and the quantization effect of the fixed refresh cycle introduced obvious roughness into the animation. On the other laptop, however, the motion was much smoother, with no apparent tearing or slowdowns—much like you'd see from Nvidia's G-Sync technology.

...

Regardless, the good news here is that AMD believes a very effective G-Sync-like variable refresh technology shouldn't add any cost at all to a display or system. Koduri says it "should become a free thing," and the term "free sync" is already being spoken as shorthand for this technology at AMD.

http://techreport.com/news/25867/amd-could-counter-nvidia-g-sync-with-simpler-free-sync-tech

 

[dacostafilipe]

If I understand this correctly

After some more thinking: LCD's don't like to "do nothing". They need to be refreshed to "stay alive". So, in the end what nVidia does (inside the screen module), might not be that far away from FreeSync. It's just the communication between driver-screen that might be simplified.

Found this on a forum that explain what G-Sync does. The same should be possible with FreeSync :

So no matter how fast or slow the GPU is rendering frames, the monitor is never locked to a particular refresh rate. Not stuck at 60Hz, even if the GPU is stuck on 45fps. In this case, the monitor would change to 45Hz to match the framerate. And if the GPU suddenly boosts to 110fps? The monitor boosts to 110Hz too.

Source: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=699523

 

[BallaTheFeared]

And you're basing that statement on what, exactly?

A total lack of information provided by AMD.

1. Requires driver to predict the future.
2. Uses V-Sync
3. G-Sync drives VBI via hardware; Freesync speculates VBI

What information are you using to refute my thoughts?

 

[3DVagabond]

TechReport have also gone hands on with it:

One of the laptops was using traditional vsync, only refreshing the display at a fixed rate, and the quantization effect of the fixed refresh cycle introduced obvious roughness into the animation. On the other laptop, however, the motion was much smoother, with no apparent tearing or slowdowns—much like you'd see from Nvidia's G-Sync technology.

...

Regardless, the good news here is that AMD believes a very effective G-Sync-like variable refresh technology shouldn't add any cost at all to a display or system. Koduri says it "should become a free thing," and the term "free sync" is already being spoken as shorthand for this technology at AMD.

http://techreport.com/news/25867/amd-could-counter-nvidia-g-sync-with-simpler-free-sync-tech

What does he mean "much like"? He doesn't say anywhere in the article that there were any visible differences. Maybe he's just hedging a bit because he couldn't do a side by side?

It seems AMD's whole take on this is there should be no need for any additional hardware and it shouldn't cost anything. I wonder if the monitor suppliers knew this?

Another thing, even though they didn't specifically say it, is obviously there's no reason for it to be vendor specific. We all can have it regardless of the brand we prefer.

 

[dacostafilipe]

Please don't forget that even if the screens only need a firmware update to support this, a lot of screens only have a limited range for vertical frequency. My first screen at work only supports 56-76 Hz and my second 50-76 Hz, so FreeSync would not work in the 40ish frames.

 

[3DVagabond]

Please don't forget that even if the screens only need a firmware update to support this, a lot of screens only have a limited range for vertical frequency. My first screen at work only supports 56-76 Hz and my second 50-76 Hz, so FreeSync would not work in the 40ish frames.

That's interesting. It does need to reach lower than that, IMO, to be truly useful. Although that might be part of the reason nVidia is limiting GSync to 120/144 Hz monitors. In nVidia's presentation they said GSync worked down to 30Hz. That could well have been the limitation of the monitor causing that. The other thing AMD said was you could only limit the VBLANK for as long as the monitor's color would hold up. That would be another limit on how slow the refresh rate could be adjusted.

 

[dacostafilipe]

That's interesting. It does need to reach lower than that, IMO, to be truly useful. Although that might be part of the reason nVidia is limiting GSync to 120/144 Hz monitors. In nVidia's presentation they said GSync worked down to 30Hz. That could well have been the limitation of the monitor causing that. The other thing AMD said was you could only limit the VBLANK for as long as the monitor's color would hold up. That would be another limit on how slow the refresh rate could be adjusted.

You can "fake" 30hz by using 60hz and the same frame twice.

In my case i can't have 40hz because my screen can't go as low and I can't "fake" 40hz because I can't go to 80hz.

 

[sontin]

After reading this:

In Koduri's assessment, it's possible to achieve a G-Sync-like animation smoothness with a combination of two techniques: dynamic refresh rates and triple buffering.

http://techreport.com/news/25867/amd-could-counter-nvidia-g-sync-with-simpler-free-sync-tech

it's clear that it is a marketing ploy. Triple buffering negates the effect of G-Sync.
AMD only adjust the VBLANK over a certain time because they now that there is no change in the framerate. For everything else they need TB to have not the typical DB V-Sync problems.

/edit:
Okay, i believe AMD has no clue what nVidia is doing:

He thinks Nvidia's G-Sync hardware is doing both of these things in order to achieve the results it does, but he initially expressed puzzlement over why Nvidia chose to implement them in expensive, external hardware. After all, triple-buffering can be implemented by a game developer in software or even enabled via a software switch in a graphics driver control panel. Koduri said AMD used to have an option to force the use of triple buffering in its driver control panel, in fact, and would be willing to consider bringing it back.

 

[Silverforce11]

Does it matter what it is as long as it achieves smooth animations?

 

[dacostafilipe]

Does it matter what it is as long as it achieves smooth animations?

It adds more lag :/

Edit: I was wrong, it's not the case! Sorry!

 

[sontin]

Yes, because there is a difference between G-Sync and V-Sync.
G-Sync behaves the same like V-Sync at a the maximum Hz rate. If your frame rate goes down you have either tearing, a 1/2... frame drop or triple buffering problems.

I mean we are not talking about a movie here where the frame rate is always the same.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

Weird stance, considering Nvidia still fully supports all the people who went out and bought expensive hardware just to run their 3D Vision.

No. I can't even buy a set of nvidia vision glasses because they are discontinued. And if support means game breaking bugs in games over a year old then yes it's supported. Please do a little research before thread crapping just to thread crap.

 

[dacostafilipe]

Yes, because there is a difference between G-Sync and V-Sync.

Yes but we are not talking about G-Sync vs V-Sync, but G-Sync vs FreeSync. If good implemented, you should not see a difference between both as it's the same happening on the LCD Panel. It's just between the panel and the GPU that it's different.

 

[Arkadrel]

just watched the AT video of it:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7641/amd-demonstrates-freesync-free-gsync-alternative-at-ces-2014

There’s apparently already a VESA standard for controlling VBLANK intervals. The GPU’s display engine needs to support it, as do the panel and display hardware itself. If all of the components support this spec however, then you can get what appears to be the equivalent of G-Sync without any extra hardware.

The next step was to write a little demo app that could show it working. In the video below both systems have V-Sync enabled, but the machine on the right is taking advantage of variable VBLANK intervals. Just like I did in our G-Sync review, I took a 720p60 video of both screens and slowed it down to make it easier to see the stuttering you get with V-Sync On when your content has a variable frame rate.

youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIp6mbabQeM

Looks cool.

 

[Silverforce11]

just watched the AT video of it:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7641/amd-demonstrates-freesync-free-gsync-alternative-at-ces-2014






youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIp6mbabQeM

Looks cool.

Again, as long as it works (which from that demo, it certainly does) who cares.. especially if its FREE too.

Really, so much hate for something so potentially beneficial to everyone, including NV loyalists who would benefit from CHEAPER GSYNC premiums if freesync comes to fruition.. baffling.

It's like the R290/X launch all over, so much hate there, yet now you can all enjoy cheaper GTX 780 and a new SKU 780ti at a reasonable price.

The only people who would want to see AMD fail are NV shareholders. Because gamers would want fierce competition from both sides, drives innovation and lower prices for all.

Edit: Not you Ark, referring to all the other haters here, usual suspects trolling anti-AMD.

 

[Arkadrel]

Again, as long as it works (which from that demo, it certainly does) who cares.. especially if its FREE too.

I care If this saves power, on laptops I want that in laptops.

I wasnt trying to come off as being negative. I think its a good thing, so no hate from me.

 

[SPBHM]

the main thing is if it can adjust the refresh rate without adding more latency I guess, the demo was not very clear about anything to be honest.

hopefully it's an alternative to Gsync.

 

[dacostafilipe]

the main thing is if it can adjust the refresh rate without adding more latency I guess

+1

G-Sync should be faster because it has dedicated hardware.

 

[NTMBK]

+1

G-Sync should be faster because it has dedicated hardware.

Or conversely G-Sync could be slower because it has to go through yet another hardware stage in the display pipeline. See, speculation goes both ways.

 

[Arkadrel]

A total lack of information provided by AMD.

1. Requires driver to predict the future.
2. Uses V-Sync
3. G-Sync drives VBI via hardware; Freesync speculates VBI

What information are you using to refute my thoughts?

Absence Of Evidence Is Not Evidence Of Absence

Simply put, it means that if we don't know that something exists, it doesn't mean that it doesn't; It only means we don't know one way or the other, we just haven't been made aware of it yet so it's not part of our knowledge.

What information are you using to refute my thoughts?

A video demontration showing that it works.
Authers that wrote articles saying it works.

 

[sontin]

The video didnt show that it works.
It showed a static frame rate with V-Sync.

nVidia showed a variable frame rate without V-Sync in montreal and a moving scene. AMD even compared a 30hz v-sync setting to their "FreeSync" which doesn't make any sense.

So, pls show us a proof that FreeSync is able to deliver AMD's promises.

 

[Silverforce11]

The video didnt show that it works.
It showed a static frame rate with V-Sync.

nVidia showed a variable frame rate without V-Sync in montreal and a moving scene. AMD even compared a 30hz v-sync setting to their "FreeSync" which doesn't make any sense.

So, pls show us a proof that FreeSync is able to deliver AMD's promises.

Pretty sure the reviewers who were there, unlike YOU or I, were pretty impressed with it.

 

[dacostafilipe]

Or conversely G-Sync could be slower because it has to go through yet another hardware stage in the display pipeline. See, speculation goes both ways.

True.

But I don't think that's the case. In the Asus screen they showed, the G-Sync module replaced the old hardware, so I would say they replace the hardware stage and do not add another one.

 

[blackened23]

Free-sync requires v-sync. Did I hear that correctly. LOL. Not only will it never materialize, it does nothing to address input lag.

The only people who would want to see AMD fail are NV shareholders. Because gamers would want fierce competition from both sides, drives innovation and lower prices for all.

More like, some people are sick of AMD's sleazy marketing and the fact that they hire stealth marketers to influence opinions at this forum and many others. In fact, need I remind you, there was one marketer in particular that was banned from this forum for lying about 290X benchmarks. Which he obtained free from AMD through their influencing/stealth program. How many guys are bidding for free gear? Anyway, free-sync, being a marketing trick, is of no exception to AMD's deceptive marketing. The fact that AMD has nothing with no time frame to market, and with zero plans to get this into a product speaks volumes to any outsider looking in. But that doesn't stop the incessant marketing, as if we're that gullible.