Are you Progressive?

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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,968
16,209
136
I don't hurl insults, the SJW's do.

I thought it might be informative to go through your posting history since the start of 2016 and cite every example of you posting derogatory things, but considering that I found 5 examples in a period of just over 24 hours, it seemed a bit pointless to keep going on:

gn5I2vZ.gif

I'll admit, not the best 'triggered' GIF out there - I just needed a quickie before they ran off to curl up in a Safe Space. :D

as observed in today's generation of special snowflakes that think they deserve trophies just for showing up.

Tell me how I'm wrong though... how the uber-left and 'special snowflake' don't belong together, because from every angle they sure seem to fit hand-in-hand.

THAT's what you get from special snowflakes;

Also, did you forget about the time that your avatar included the word "feminasty"?
 
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swamplizard

Senior member
Mar 18, 2016
690
0
16
G' Mornin' everyone,

I'm extremely glad that y'all find this topic interesting. Many of you argue over the semantics of "progressivism" whilst a few of you grasp the concept in a meaningful way. Moonbeam fits within the latter, though his prose dances over the heads of many of the readers, and his words are somewhat esoteric in a metaphysical hint of surrendering ones self to lose the concept of labels. To me (and a great number of folk whom have found a home in progressivism), a "progressive" is one who wishes to end the wealth oligarchy which has strangled the economy on a worldwide scale and has all but put an end to the advancement of the American middle class. A true progressive wishes to stamp out the overt and encroachment upon the rights of a minority of Americans. And finally, the progressive wishes to address the harm to our planet by the emission of fossil fuels so that future generations can live on this terra firma. The aforementioned are not all of the issues that a progressive wishes the country and world to address but (I think) sums them up in a meaningful way. Kudos to each of you regardless of where you stand in this discussion for without each of you there would be no exchange of words and ideas. Discourse, never mind the insults and diatribe depends on such. I invite you to listen to the following in full and hope you will continue the banter and wave your flags on the waves of the unlimited ether.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozq5PcqPQFA
 
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mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,968
16,209
136
To me (and a great number of folk whom have found a home in progressivism), a "progressive" is one who wishes to end the wealth oligarchy which has strangled the economy on a worldwide scale and has all but put an end to the advancement of the American middle class. A true progressive wishes to stamp out the overt and encroachment upon the rights of a minority of Americans. And finally, the progressive wishes to address the harm to our planet by the emission of fossil fuels so that future generations can live on this terra firma. The aforementioned are not all of the issues that a progressive wishes the country and world to address but (I think) sums them up in a meaningful way.

It seems to me that the term "progressive" in the context that it's being used here is mostly redundant. I'm not saying that because I believe its aims are pointless, I'm asking what the point is in the term. The economic points are basically stereotypical left-wing territory (though off the top of my head I can't think of a term for someone who purely believes those points), the civil rights perspectives are covered by civil rights campaigners of various types (e.g. gay rights, feminism), and the 'eco friendly' arguments are covered by plenty of groups that could be either left or right wing in other conflicting respects. Furthermore, I don't think there's a strong correlation of people who hold *all* of the beliefs you describe, to actually justify using the term.

As for me:

Economic points: Yup (agree)
Civil rights points: Yup
eco-friendly points: Not as such - I'm not "anti-nuclear" even though I agree with the basic arguments against its use, I think that fossil fuel use should be made to steadily decline, and perhaps ship off loads of cheap fossil fuel to countries that are less able to invest in more expensive methods (well, certainly the R&D is expensive for emerging tech) until they're on a better footing to catch up with the rest of us, and coming back to the nuclear argument, we don't (as a planet) currently have a "one size fits all" energy solution, and I'm convinced that (if nuclear energy is handled correctly), it's a reasonable and reliable solution until R&D turns up something that is better than nuclear all-round, but I would basically pursue the development and roll-out of many forms of energy generation because modern society is increasingly dependent on it. To steal a Dune quote, "the spice must flow", solar and wind power aren't yet something that can provide all of a modern country's power needs (certainly not the UK anyway), 24/7/365, AFAIK.

Furthermore, as this thread demonstrated rather well, there's a lack of understanding as to what it actually means and the word judged on its own is rather vague, and the crudest way of describing that problem is this -
progress to say a neo-nazi is not likely to represent the same thing as progress to a civil rights campaigner :)
 
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alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,866
3,297
136
Because your feelings were hurt? Why? Because you think you're being wonderful by doing terrible things to some people in order to benefit a handful of others? Then if someone says what you're doing is bad, the other person is "evil" for hurting your feelings?

don't worry, my feelings weren't hurt and i don't do terrible things to anyone.

once again, your simple little quote sums up your hypocrisy and hate so simply...

"the regressive progressive crowd."

that says all anyone needs to know about you blue_max.
 

swamplizard

Senior member
Mar 18, 2016
690
0
16
It seems to me that the term "progressive" in the context that it's being used here is mostly redundant. I'm not saying that because I believe its aims are pointless, I'm asking what the point is in the term. The economic points are basically stereotypical left-wing territory (though off the top of my head I can't think of a term for someone who purely believes those points), the civil rights perspectives are covered by civil rights campaigners of various types (e.g. gay rights, feminism), and the 'eco friendly' arguments are covered by plenty of groups that could be either left or right wing in other conflicting respects. Furthermore, I don't think there's a strong correlation of people who hold *all* of the beliefs you describe, to actually justify using the term.

As for me:

Economic points: Yup (agree)
Civil rights points: Yup
eco-friendly points: Not as such - I'm not "anti-nuclear" even though I agree with the basic arguments against its use, I think that fossil fuel use should be made to steadily decline, and perhaps ship off loads of cheap fossil fuel to countries that are less able to invest in more expensive methods (well, certainly the R&D is expensive for emerging tech) until they're on a better footing to catch up with the rest of us, and coming back to the nuclear argument, we don't (as a planet) currently have a "one size fits all" energy solution, and I'm convinced that (if nuclear energy is handled correctly), it's a reasonable and reliable solution until R&D turns up something that is better than nuclear all-round, but I would basically pursue the development and roll-out of many forms of energy generation because modern society is increasingly dependent on it. To steal a Dune quote, "the spice must flow", solar and wind power aren't yet something that can provide all of a modern country's power needs (certainly not the UK anyway), 24/7/365, AFAIK.

Furthermore, as this thread demonstrated rather well, there's a lack of understanding as to what it actually means and the word judged on its own is rather vague, and the crudest way of describing that problem is this -
progress to say a neo-nazi is not likely to represent the same thing as progress to a civil rights campaigner :)

G' aftanoon mikeymikec ,

The country you live in has already progressed in that you enjoy UHC and correct me if I'm wrong have a system of higher education that is more readily accessible to those who have a yearning for such. Our "progressive" movement here in the colonies is striving to catch up with the rest of civilized countries. Thank you for a well thought out and concise assessment.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,736
6,759
126
It seems to me that the term "progressive" in the context that it's being used here is mostly redundant.

A liberal, to my way of thinking, is a person with an ideological commitment to a program of left leaning ideas. Lets take welfare as an example. A liberal has a sympathy for the victims of our capitalist society, for the folk who fall down on the way, for the handicapped, the mentally damaged, those who never had a chance, those who had commitment to others that superseded their own personal ambitions, the circumstance disadvantaged., those to whom we should refer to as the there but for the Grace of God.

But this noble and profoundly sacred notion is lacking in psychological understanding, and conservatives know this. They represent the winners of our society, generally, those who were raised to be aggressively competitive, for whom winning is everything, Sunday Christians who believe only in their own private charity, the vicarious pleasure they get only from voluntary giving. These winners depend on the sense they have won the game out of personal worthiness, not because our system is structured so that a few people will always win. These are the greed is good people who believe in their own superiority as a means to deny what they actually feel, totally worthless.

But they understand one thing that liberals generally fail to see. They won by doing something, by achieving something, by building up personal capacity, by working at something, having goals and dreams. They believe not only in self sufficiency but have also achieved it. They know that without this element of personal drive people will fail in the world we have created, the world of hate expressed as competition. They don't want their money confiscated by liberals to be given as government charity, thrown in the pit of endless appetite of the worthless and lazy.

A progressive understands both of these things and resolves them with wisdom and understanding at a higher level of comprehension.

To feed people you need to teach them to fish. In shout it is them crippled mentality of the disadvantaged, their negative attitudes about self that need to be addressed. You create no sense of self worth in people you help for free. At that stage they are simply takers, untransformed by the charity deal.

What needs to happen is for people who are beaten to be healed.

Mental health is reacquired in two ways if it is lost. People who are beaten need to see it's not their fault. They need to remember their own story and feel their self destruction to reverse the lie they carry that they are worthless people. And externally, there needs to be personal change in the form of positive feed back, baby steps that create a sense of success. Every act of rehabilitation of the damaged once basic survival is assured, is to couple every act of charity as a payment for some sort of positive work. It doesn't matter at first if there is any real contribution, only that some personal effort is involved that simulates the fact that positive actions generally produce positive rewards.

The entire world is sick because everybody alive has been put down. All that pain makes some of us saints, breaks others, and created massive numbers of abusers who keep the sickness going by transferring the pain they hide from to the next generation.

You can do nothing real in the world to cure its ills if you do not know those ills are within us. It is my idea of what a progressive is who know these things.
 

swamplizard

Senior member
Mar 18, 2016
690
0
16
Thanks Moonbeam,

As usual your response is sensible and concise. Did you use to work in AL or GA?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,736
6,759
126
Thanks Moonbeam,

As usual your response is sensible and concise. Did you use to work in AL or GA?

I think you must be wondering where I picked up my positive notions about the friendliness and hospitality of Southern culture. I have lived in California most of my life but I don't much like folk who are snobbish about where they are from and like to try to see what is good in other places probably mostly by reading and hearing what others have to say. Probably that is because I live in the most liberally advanced place on the planet and as a part of the cream of the crop, I've become quite culturally charitable. ;)
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
37,344
32,958
136
I think you must be wondering where I picked up my positive notions about the friendliness and hospitality of Southern culture. I have lived in California most of my life but I don't much like folk who are snobbish about where they are from and like to try to see what is good in other places probably mostly by reading and hearing what others have to say. Probably that is because I live in the most liberally advanced place on the planet and as a part of the cream of the crop, I've become quite culturally charitable. ;)

I think he is asking about the mud:

What about progressives for Trump?

PS: I notice that the first three idiots that posted after your OP had a need to denigrate. They do this of course, because inwardly they feel worthless.

Are you from the South? You have such a pleasant and polite manner about you. Just wanted to let you know. I remember one time working in clay soil and trying to walk normally with twenty pounds of mud on my feet. I found it usefull to occasionally scrape it off.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,968
16,209
136
A liberal, to my way of thinking, is a person with an ideological commitment to a program of left leaning ideas. Lets take welfare as an example. A liberal has a sympathy for the victims of our capitalist society, for the folk who fall down on the way, for the handicapped, the mentally damaged, those who never had a chance, those who had commitment to others that superseded their own personal ambitions, the circumstance disadvantaged., those to whom we should refer to as the there but for the Grace of God.

But this noble and profoundly sacred notion is lacking in psychological understanding, and conservatives know this. They represent the winners of our society, generally, those who were raised to be aggressively competitive, for whom winning is everything, Sunday Christians who believe only in their own private charity, the vicarious pleasure they get only from voluntary giving. These winners depend on the sense they have won the game out of personal worthiness, not because our system is structured so that a few people will always win. These are the greed is good people who believe in their own superiority as a means to deny what they actually feel, totally worthless.

But they understand one thing that liberals generally fail to see. They won by doing something, by achieving something, by building up personal capacity, by working at something, having goals and dreams. They believe not only in self sufficiency but have also achieved it. They know that without this element of personal drive people will fail in the world we have created, the world of hate expressed as competition. They don't want their money confiscated by liberals to be given as government charity, thrown in the pit of endless appetite of the worthless and lazy.

A progressive understands both of these things and resolves them with wisdom and understanding at a higher level of comprehension.

To feed people you need to teach them to fish. In shout it is them crippled mentality of the disadvantaged, their negative attitudes about self that need to be addressed. You create no sense of self worth in people you help for free. At that stage they are simply takers, untransformed by the charity deal.

While I agree with some very basic elements of what you have written, I think the distinctions you've made, especially between liberals and progressives, are frankly bollocks, simply because a) trying to sum up the views of a multitude of people carries with it an ever increasing risk of inaccuracy in direct correlation with the size of the group, and b) I have yet to meet someone whom I consider to be left-leaning who doesn't subscribe to every idea that you claim are the defining marks of the "progressive". While I acknowledge the vaguest possibility that I've only encountered "sufficiently enlightened liberals", I very much doubt it.

I have to ask, are there really any left-leaning people who don't subscribe to the "teach a person to fish" idea? Or think that it's OK for healthy, employable people to live off benefits as anything but a short-term solution? Or that mentally ill people ought to be treated? I wouldn't be surprised if most right-leaning people agree with those ideas as well! The multitude of differences come in at the point when the question is asked "how should we go about achieving these aims?", and each answers according to their priorities. E.g.:

A stereotypical rich right-winger might jealously guard their earnings and claim that these disadvantaged people should find their own way to fix their problems (rather than paying more taxes to fund efforts for such people).

A stereotypical left-winger might say that the rich guys can afford to pay somewhat more taxes in order to fund efforts to help such people.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,736
6,759
126
While I agree with some very basic elements of what you have written, I think the distinctions you've made, especially between liberals and progressives, are frankly bollocks, simply because a) trying to sum up the views of a multitude of people carries with it an ever increasing risk of inaccuracy in direct correlation with the size of the group, and b) I have yet to meet someone whom I consider to be left-leaning who doesn't subscribe to every idea that you claim are the defining marks of the "progressive". While I acknowledge the vaguest possibility that I've only encountered "sufficiently enlightened liberals", I very much doubt it.

I have to ask, are there really any left-leaning people who don't subscribe to the "teach a person to fish" idea? Or think that it's OK for healthy, employable people to live off benefits as anything but a short-term solution? Or that mentally ill people ought to be treated? I wouldn't be surprised if most right-leaning people agree with those ideas as well! The multitude of differences come in at the point when the question is asked "how should we go about achieving these aims?", and each answers according to their priorities. E.g.:

A stereotypical rich right-winger might jealously guard their earnings and claim that these disadvantaged people should find their own way to fix their problems (rather than paying more taxes to fund efforts for such people).

A stereotypical left-winger might say that the rich guys can afford to pay somewhat more taxes in order to fund efforts to help such people.

A stereotypical progressive would fund welfare efforts at the state level carefully document their success rate and fund those what show proof of bang for the buck. The well earned conservative contempt for liberals is that they have no skin in the game but are happy to pour billions of dollars of other people's money down any feel good rat hole.

Job one for any progressive should be to prove to the sleepers that progressive programs work. You can't outvote the conservative brain when time after time your programs fail to produce positive change.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,736
6,759
126
I think he is asking about the mud:

Thank you. Hehe! The mud I was referring too was the conservative brain defective doom and gloom they litter the ground with to drag progressives and everybody else down. That was my version of the 23rd Psalm.
 

mikeymikec

Lifer
May 19, 2011
20,968
16,209
136
A stereotypical progressive would fund welfare efforts at the state level carefully document their success rate and fund those what show proof of bang for the buck. The well earned conservative contempt for liberals is that they have no skin in the game but are happy to pour billions of dollars of other people's money down any feel good rat hole.

Job one for any progressive should be to prove to the sleepers that progressive programs work. You can't outvote the conservative brain when time after time your programs fail to produce positive change.

I would summarise this post as "Moonbeam defines progressivism as left-wing politics handled in a competent manner". Since competence of execution isn't part of the definition of any political ism I'm aware of, I still suggest that the term "progressivism" is redundant. The only exception I can think of is that if some movement in America has taken up the term to be their name for their effort, so be it. A quick look at the website that the OP mentioned makes me think that some left-wingers don't want their ideas to be associated with (what seems to me) a common American view that liberalism is a dirty word that unfathomably gets associated with things like communism, in which case, what's there to discuss?
 
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thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
1,587
126
blue max is pooping on the forums again.

Judging from his posting history I get the feeling he poops himself every time a woman expects to be treated as equal to men in his presence. So he has to come on here to spout his idiocy because he's so emasculated in person by any woman who isn't from the middle ages (or a place in the world that still treats women like the middle ages).
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
Judging from his posting history I get the feeling he poops himself every time a woman expects to be treated as equal to men in his presence. So he has to come on here to spout his idiocy because he's so emasculated in person by any woman who isn't from the middle ages (or a place in the world that still treats women like the middle ages).


No wonder women look at him funny if he constantly poops himself.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
33,079
11,259
136
Judging from his posting history I get the feeling he poops himself every time a woman expects to be treated as equal to men in his presence. So he has to come on here to spout his idiocy because he's so emasculated in person by any woman who isn't from the middle ages (or a place in the world that still treats women like the middle ages).
You reckon he's this whiny in real life?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,736
6,759
126
You reckon he's this whiny in real life?

Well the point I think should be not his inevitable rejection as abnormal by healthier people, but that he has an illness of the head that can be treated were he to have that intention. A big problem with the bigoted ego, however, is that it is proud of being sick. It needs that pride to mask some hidden feeling of inferiority based on guilt. Worldly contempt for a horrible illness just drives the disease even deeper. Some how he has to learn that there's no need to hide those feelings. One will hurt before one will heal.
 

Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
4,223
153
106
You'll notice the only people who loathe me are the above-listed self-proclaimed progressives.

And it's totally fine for them to hurl all the insults they want, grounded or not. Strange that no one else is, isn't it?

They're following the progressive liberal agendas from my linked video to the letter.

Sorry, OP - political progressives aren't quite about what you said. The word has been hijacked and now belongs to this war of mind/zeitgeist.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
33,079
11,259
136
You'll notice the only people who loathe me are the above-listed self-proclaimed progressives. .

I don't think that anyone loathes you.

You just come across as really whiny and kind of pathetic.

So it's not loathe, it's more somewhere between "pity" and "slightly irritated by".
I just wondered if you come across like this IRL.
 

Blue_Max

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2011
4,223
153
106
I don't think that anyone loathes you.

You just come across as really whiny and kind of pathetic.

So it's not loathe, it's more somewhere between "pity" and "slightly irritated by".
I just wondered if you come across like this IRL.

^^^ again, only by you folks indoctrinated into the cult of extreme left.

It really is like a religion, and anyone not in it is to be pitied.
Anyone who speaks against it is "evil".

This also explains why most of its followers just repeat the same slogans and catchphrases over and over again like scripture, without really analyzing what any of it means or why. Not a lot of actual discussion either, just shouting down any disagreement with charged word insults like "woman hater" "rape apologist" "bigot" "racist"... words that used to mean something before the progressives started using them to describe anyone guilty of even the tiniest of "microaggressions".

So, no, I'm not "sick". If anything, I'm still sane while those in this new cult are chanting together, "one of us! one of us!"


...and, yes, a few of our forum members above likely fall into the "loathe" category and will take every opportunity possible to get their licks in. ;)
 
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