Question are video card prices headed down yet?

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Aapje

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2022
1,530
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That is not what crypto mining is. They are not producing a product, they are buying lottery tickets.

That may be true for some home miners, but I I think that the professionals that did most of the mining have a much more simple business model than you think. Just mine & sell. Ultimately, the very fact that GPU mining revolved around Ethereum so much is quite inconsistent with your beliefs. If you were right, they would already have favored more speculative coins over ETH.

Betting on minor coins becoming (temporarily) popular is inherently a niche activity. If too many people do it and try to sell during a rally, the speculators will have so many coins to sell that the price will only go up slightly even during a rally, due to how many coins are for sale.

For example, imagine that small towns sometimes become popular to live in, because of some tourist thing. Then 1000 people move in and drive up the housing prices. You might speculate on that by building a few houses in small towns and then renting those out at a small loss. Then you get a nice profit for the houses in boom towns, more than making up for your small losses in the towns that never becomes unpopular. Now imagine that a ton of people do the same and they together build a million houses in each small town. When those 1000 tourists move in, they won't buy more than 1000 houses. The other 999,000 houses will never be sold to a tourist and no profit will ever be made on them. It's a strategy that works less and less as more people do it, just like speculative mining.

The last two years have taught us that plenty of gamers will pay truly stupid prices for a new GPU. My guess is that Nvidia is about to test that market. If they don't sell they can always lower their prices to reasonable amounts around Black Friday.
And hay then they get to have huge sales and we will all be like 'What a deal! 30% off a 4080' buy buy buy!

Like I've said so many times before, this is a basic lack of understanding about economics. If demand stays constant, then the number of buyers goes down as the price goes up. However, during the mining craze, demand went way up. There was a new group of buyers with a willingness to buy many cards at very high prices. Of course, there were also gamers that bought for those prices, but those were far fewer than the number of gamers that would have bought those cards for more normal prices.

However, now those miners are pretty much gone from the market and you cannot conclude that millions of gamers will take their place and will be willing to buy the same number of cards at those high prices. In fact, we've already seen that they won't, because prices went down and cards are now massively in stock again. Nvidia told their investors that even at much lower prices than during the crisis, they are selling way fewer cards.

So the evidence against your false narrative is staring you in the face...
 

maddie

Diamond Member
Jul 18, 2010
5,124
5,472
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Both of you are thinking about crypto mining as producing a product to be sold. That is not what crypto mining is. They are not producing a product, they are buying lottery tickets. My guess is that right now those giant warehouses of GPU's are being converted to mine a dozen different coins in the hope that one or more of them shoots up in value and the nearly worthless coins they mined today will be worth billions tomorrow. And it might just happen. The key thing to remember is that it does not have to be a stable market, all that has to happen is for one of the coins that they have hundreds or thousands of to suddenly increase in price for a few hours. Then everyone tries to sell all of that coin as fast as possible, which causes that coin's value to crash, and they move on to the next one.

The entire thing will become a high speed pyramid scheme. The thing about pyramid scheme's is that there is always plenty of suckers who think they will be the guy on top.


The last two years have taught us that plenty of gamers will pay truly stupid prices for a new GPU. My guess is that Nvidia is about to test that market. If they don't sell they can always lower their prices to reasonable amounts around Black Friday.
And hay then they get to have huge sales and we will all be like 'What a deal! 30% off a 4080' buy buy buy!
Coins only shoot up massively in value because someone buys the coin with traditional money. Mining produces tokens , NOT money. The money gains come when someone buys the coins you sell. Something you have only has a wider value as distinct from your value, if someone else wants it and is willing to buy it. The myth that cryptos are inherently valuable is the fable of our age.

When money was cheap with near zero and even negative interest in some cases, speculation was free. Money is increasing in cost and destined to continue rising for a longer period than most think. You lose with stupid, poorly analysed, "investing". The throw **** at the wall and see what sticks strategy is dead, dead, dead. The privileged who had early access to cheap money are not the smartest in most cases, so they will continue until it becomes patently obvious to the dimmest of the lot.

I don't think from reading certain posters, that they understand what higher interest rates AKA expensive money does to investments and buying habits. Loans, mortgages, etc are shocking consumers and will get worse. You can't buy what you can't afford.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
8,024
9,274
136
I think @SMOGZINN has it exactly backwards. Small time operations with a dozen cards or less will bounce around and try to mine as much of whatever ****coin of the week they can before moving to the next and eventually exhausting their options.

For a small time miner, potentially snagging 10/50/100 of whatever low rent ****coin and potentially sitting on the next bitcoin is actually a pretty rational behavior (given human heuristics) given all the stories we've heard of randos digging through garbage dumps looking for their harddrive with 100 bitcoins on it or whatever.

The big time operations likely had a KISS strategy laid out: Mine ETH till it merges, hold for X time under Y conditions while mining, liquidate inventory to recoup as much opex as possible after merge. The longer they're in the game, really the more they have to lose. Their physical inventory depreciates, their income goes down, their expenses stay the same or go up.

The big time miners are in it purely for the money, and in fact are potentially the source of a lot of this "new world order" and "fight the man" marketing mumbojumbo that the small timers and retail investors have bought into surrounding crypto in general.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
31,501
31,002
146
Getting us back on track: Now seeing more1660 Supers for $140 buy it now on Ebay. The 16 series is still on the good side of the bathtub curve even with the mining considered. May get to $100 at some point. IMO that effectively kills off the new in box sub $200 market. Cheaper, faster, more ram than anything but ARC, and should still have years of gaming left in them.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,570
10,204
126
Getting us back on track: Now seeing more1660 Supers for $140 buy it now on Ebay. The 16 series is still on the good side of the bathtub curve even with the mining considered. May get to $100 at some point. IMO that effectively kills off the new in box sub $200 market. Cheaper, faster, more ram than anything but ARC, and should still have years of gaming left in them.
Yeah, GTX 1660 Super cards (and their older brother, the 1660 ti with more CUDA cores), are cheap and cheerful. Good, dependable mining cards (I've had a few in service for a couple of years by now), but also decent for 1080P Gamining (how little I do of that, these days, pretty-much none).

I would also like to point out to @Aapje . that not everyone is EITHER a miner or a gamer, there are plenty of people that do neither, and do DC work, or 3D modeling, video-editing, MRI viewing, etc. There are a LOT of different GPU consumers, so no, just because a miner buys a few of them, that doesn't mean that they didn't go to gamers, they might not have gone to gamers anyways. (And why are gamers so special, anyways? I don't get the worship. Surely, I'd rather someone like @Markfw get GPUs rather than gamers.)
 

Aapje

Golden Member
Mar 21, 2022
1,530
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1660 Super's also run quite cool, so I'd expect them to suffer less from mining. I think that during the mining card dump, they may become the best card to buy for low-budget 1080p gamers.

The less educated buyers will judge them older and weaker than they are, because the name suggests that they are Pascal, even though they are actually Turing.

@VirtualLarry

Sure, but gamers tend to dominate forums like these. And those other buyers are usually more similar to gamers than to miners: 1 card per person and looking to replace their old card once the performance difference with a new card is so large that it justifies the price in their mind.

It's not so much that gamers are special. The miners are the special ones.
 

mastertech01

Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
Nov 13, 1999
11,875
282
126
I want mine more for video and photo editing. My old games run fine on my UHD750 at 1440, better than ever before. But I still want the best I can get for the money and this is possibly a time when I will never see an opportunity like this again.
 
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Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,045
15,990
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Checked Newegg, and the 3080 and below are all selling above original MSRP. So much for "massive price cuts by the end of August".
The 3090TI I got for $1100 last week is still that price, and its a monster !!! And I just got a Titan V for $780 on ebay.
 

jpiniero

Lifer
Oct 1, 2010
16,357
6,831
136
Im looking more for around Black Friday

If the 4080 12 GB is released around that time, I think that's a sign that nVidia feels okay about the ability to get mostly rid of the GA102 supply by then. Course you could go used and buy a mining card.

That there is no pricing pressure on GA104 and below also shows that they are not intending to release anything on desktop slower than the 4080 12 GB for some time. Who knows when you will see the 4070 or even the 4060.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,299
672
126
Sad news but EVGA has ended partnership with Nvidia. I wonder what this means for the extended warranty I have on my 3080ti?

If they are sold out and mine dies randomly I guess I'm out of luck.

 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
8,024
9,274
136
Sad news but EVGA has ended partnership with Nvidia. I wonder what this means for the extended warranty I have on my 3080ti?

If they are sold out and mine dies randomly I guess I'm out of luck.


- Yup, wonder what it means for the prices EVGA currently commands for new and used cards. A lot of people are not going to want to touch an AIB that is leaving the business at the end of a gen.

Anyone can say "we have cards to cover warranties" until they don't. Then its a $100 EVGA store credit for a motherboard or PSU or some other crap you don't need.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
14,299
672
126
Selling off new cards with no warranty. Those should go very cheap.
They won't sell any 40 series and they made a statement in their forums that they will cover any existing customers but who knows for how long, they have not specified.

EVGA generally were my go to AIB so I suppose anyone selling current evga cards will have to slash prices which could be a good thing for those looking to buy used cards if they want to chance no warranty.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,862
17,401
136
Sad news but EVGA has ended partnership with Nvidia. I wonder what this means for the extended warranty I have on my 3080ti?

If they are sold out and mine dies randomly I guess I'm out of luck.

I’m sure they have a relatively accurate number of how many they need to store for replacements. They’ve just stashed some for dudes like you.
 

mastertech01

Moderator Emeritus Elite Member
Nov 13, 1999
11,875
282
126
I’m sure they have a relatively accurate number of how many they need to store for replacements. They’ve just stashed some for dudes like you.
Nothing says they have to give you a new replacement either. They may just repair them or refund if necessary or contract a repair facility.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
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Nothing says they have to give you a new replacement either. They may just repair them or refund if necessary or contract a repair facility.
Exactly and per my brief reading halting sales of a product that represents 80% of your revenue because “reasons” and “respect” is incredibly risky. They may not exist to fill said warranty claims.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
8,024
9,274
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EVGA is about to go full Corsair. Basically repackage (likely high quality) OEM peripherals under the EVGA brand.

EVGA name will take them far in peripheral sales if they partner with the right OEMs.
 

Markfw

Moderator Emeritus, Elite Member
May 16, 2002
27,045
15,990
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EVGA is about to go full Corsair. Basically repackage (likely high quality) OEM peripherals under the EVGA brand.

EVGA name will take them far in peripheral sales if they partner with the right OEMs.
Except, Corsair used to be my favorite PSU, until 4 in a row died. Now EVGA has taken that over for me, but who knows about the future,